Mash times?

I don't quite understand mash times ,
I have been making simple AG Ales
Mashing at 152F +/- for 1 hour then mash out at 168-170F +/- Fly sparge

to my understanding at different temps, different sugars break down (because of enzymes) into the wort that the yeast gets to eat ... Result beer!

why do some recipes call for shorter/longer mash times , or step mash times?

does this change the flavor , and the efficiency ,

don't i want all the sugar's possible so why shorter / lower temp mashes ...

and what flavor is the result from / shorter longer .. or steping

I'm confused can someone explain this to me , or a link on some reading.

In general, the longer the mash, the more time the enzymes have to break down dextrines and the more fermentable the wort will be. It doesn't have as much impacgt as mash temp, but it does have an impact.

Thanks , my question then is why do some people only mash for 30 - 45 min
when others mash for an hour , do different grains need to sit longer than others to get the conversion?

or are they trying to get sweeter or dryer beers from non-fermentables
depending on mash time? , if so whats a ... uhhh a guide line for mash times for different styles?

Example: a recipy for a wheat beer all grain called for 30 min at 150F
and a mash out at 168 for 10 - 15 min / or no mash out.

another recipe called for a 60-90 min at ## and with a longer mash out,
u get what asking?

why is it different? are they getting something out of this... flavor or more fermentables? or non fermentables?

or is it just personal preference?

My understanding is that the longer you mash, the more sugars (fermentable and non-fermentable) will be extracted. I do 90 minutes-both because it gives the enzymes time to work, and because it gives me enough time to get everything else in order.

For temps, my simple rule is that closer to 150=more fermentables and a dryer beer...closer to 160=less fermentables and a sweeter beer.

With a lower temp mash you will have more beta amalyse activity, at the higher end more alpha activity. The alpha break chains of sugar molecules, whereas beta tears individual molecules off a chain one at a time. Higher temp mashes will convert more quickly but leave more complex sugars in the wort, some of which will be unfermentable. Lower temp mashes will take longer but create a wort that is more fermentable. If you want a beer to have a really low finishing gravity you'll want to mash around 148-150 but you may want to run up to 90 minutes to allow complete conversion. However if you want a fuller body you'll run 154-156 and maybe even up to 158. You're conversion could be done as quickly as 45 minutes but more likely in the neighborhood of 60. The best way to be sure conversion is complete is to use an iodine test.

If you use an iodine test for conversion, you can mash for as short as a time as it takes for conversion- maybe 20-30 minutes even.

Mashing for an hour pretty much ensures full conversion, so that's what many of us do that don't always do a iodine test. A shorter mash time can mean a less fermentable wort, and a longer mash time can mean a more fermentable wort but it doesn't seem to have as big as impact as the temperature does during the mash.

Step mashing is a different beast- they usually include different "rests" for different purposes. Like a protein rest, for example.

Howtobrew.com has more information on different rests in a step mash and what the purpose is. Most of today's well-modified malt is fine with a single infusion mash.

Thank you all , so mashing at higher temps will give my beer more body, and lower temps will result in a dryer beer, OK that explaines some flavor changes in some of my batches

YooperBrew said:

If you use an iodine test for conversion, you can mash for as short as a time as it takes for conversion- maybe 20-30 minutes even.

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There's a difference between conversion and dextrine profile, though. Sure you can convert in as little as 15 minutes, but will you get the sugar profile that's right for the beer?

Denny said:

There's a difference between conversion and dextrine profile, though. Sure you can convert in as little as 15 minutes, but will you get the sugar profile that's right for the beer?

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Yes, if you use the correct mash temperature. With todays highly modified malts the enzymatic conversion is completed in much less then the 60 minutes many of us mash for. Efficiency will suffer though if you shorten your mash time.

GT

When I mash in 154F iodine test is usually negative in ~30 min. But I keep it whole 60 min, unless I intentionally want poorly fermentable wort.

Here's another discussion we had on mash times and attenuation.

Controlling Attenuation Through Mash Times

Got Trub? said:

Yes, if you use the correct mash temperature. With todays highly modified malts the enzymatic conversion is completed in much less then the 60 minutes many of us mash for. Efficiency will suffer though if you shorten your mash time.

GT

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If conversion is complete, why will efficiency suffer?

That is what I was thinking 5 years later.

Bobbybob said:

That is what I was thinking 5 years later.

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I've been experimenting with short mash times. With a 20 minute mash I can still hit 85% efficiency but to do that my grain must be milled very fine. To do that I have to use a bag BIAB or I won't have a filter bed to drain the tun. From a couple runs I did, it appears I can hit that efficiency with even as short as a 10 minute mash but I'm not convinced yet.

Bobbybob said:

That is what I was thinking 5 years later.

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Exactly, if you are not converting in the 90+ percent range (first wort gravity in the mash tun), then your mash is not complete. You have issues with time, temp, crush, pH or all of the above.

So I just found out I have been batch sparging wrong too. Or at least slower than I needed to. I have been mashing 60 minutes and "batch" sparging twice super slowly 45 min is the quickest I have ever sparged, per sparge. I bet I can cut 2 hours from my brewday.
Nothing like feeling like an idiot for something I have been doing regularly for over a year.

Bobbybob said:

So I just found out I have been batch sparging wrong too. Or at least slower than I needed to. I have been mashing 60 minutes and "batch" sparging twice super slowly 45 min is the quickest I have ever sparged, per sparge. I bet I can cut 2 hours from my brewday.
Nothing like feeling like an idiot for something I have been doing regularly for over a year.

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Take a look aty www.dennybrew.com. From the time I start my mash runoff til the time I end my sparge runoff, including vorlaufing both mash and sparge and stirring in sparge water, takes me a total of 15 min.

Denny said:

Take a look aty www.dennybrew.com. From the time I start my mash runoff til the time I end my sparge runoff, including vorlaufing both mash and sparge and stirring in sparge water, takes me a total of 15 min.

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Holy crap that is fast. I did brew yesterday and I cut 2 hours and change out of my brew day. I did have one interesting thing happen though. My hot break was super fine and never fully congealed. After chilling I had two blobs that went right through the strainer. I have never had this happen to this extent.