Cost to brew?

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Peregris

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I am currently enjoying my first batch of homebrew - it turned out pretty good considering it was just the kit that came with the setup. I am working out some recipes of my own that I want to try for the next batch, which brought me to this question -

One of the reasons I wanted to start homebrewing was the fact I could get much better beer for much lower prices. In most places I read that I could spend $25 or $30 on ingredients and get two cases. Now that I'm working out some recipes, I price the ingredients online and at my LHBS and the total comes to around $50. Now, I know that there is a hop shortage, and I hear that malt and yeast prices have gone up sharply recently, but it seems like a big difference. I'd like to hear from some of you about what your average cost-per-batch is.

Thanks for the input.
 
$50 isn't an unreasonable cost for an extract batch.

Things that make it cheaper:
  • Washing and Re-using yeast (or using dry yeast)
  • Using all grains instead of extract
  • Efficient hop useage
You can easily get your cost per batch closer to $25-30 by doing these things.

Brewing is a hobby, though, if your motivation is just to get cheaper beer, you're probably better off just drinking PBR. You can get high quality beer cheaper through homebrew than through buying it, but if you don't care about that then it is what it is.
 
You start "saving" money per batch when you buy ingredients in bulk. Also, harvesting and reusing yeast will save a few bucks per batch. When you buy pre-made kits from the HBS you are also paying a premium for them assembling the kit for you.

My cost per 5 gallons is roughly $15-20 depending on the recipe. That figure, however, does not take into account the amount of money that I have spent on all my brewing gear, which I don't really even want to think about...

Welcome to the forum:mug:
 
When you factor in the cost of equpiment and the time it takes to brew, commercial will be cheaper by far. That being said, I can brew a batch for around $20-25 now, that's about $0.50/bottle, but that's also after hundreds of dollars worth of equipment.
This isn't to save money, it's to enjoy yourself.
 
Equipment costs +$3,000, at least I stopped buying new stuf...

Ingredient costs, I do 10 gallon batches and recently did a cheap 10 gallons for about $35. (All grain)

My time though 8 hours of making beer and bottling kegging cleaning etc. Far more valuable than you can imagine. At work, I charge my clients $250 - $300 an hour.

There are other built in costs that don't go into the ingredient equation. I need to fill 2 propane tanks every 3 or 4 batches - $30. I have an O2 system that needs a new tank every 10 or so batches - $7. Water for the beer and running the wort chiller (paid to the city) + Electricity for my lagering fridge, probably about $200 a year for both.

All in all I am probably loosing money, but, what can you do.
 
What I should have said was something to the effect of "an added benefit..."

By far the reason I wanted to start homebrewing was for the fun of developing an original recipe, making it, enjoying it, and then saying "Holy Cow - look what I made!"

I just thought that I may have been doing something wrong when putting together a recipe or maybe looking at overpriced webmerchants.
 
Peregris said:
I just thought that I may have been doing something wrong when putting together a recipe or maybe looking at overpriced webmerchants.
Click to expand...
Maybe, but if you're doing it online you have the freedom to shop around a lot. I try to buy at my LHBS because I like to support the local economy... I pay more for my ingredients, but I'm okay with that because it satisfies my conscience ;)

I tend to find my average extract batch price hangs around $40, but can go higher depending on what I'm doing with it - adding fruit to a beer significantly increases the costs because of the fruit you have to buy. Higher gravity brews will always be more expensive than their counterparts just by virtue of needing more ingredients.

What did you brew for $50? Was it a kit?
 
To me $50 sounds a little high for a standard extract recipe. Yes prices have gone up, but $30 to $35 should still be fairly doable. Now if you have a super hoppy beer, or a super high grav beer obviously it will cost more, but most of my batches come in around $25 to $30.

Here's an example of what I might pay for a "basic" recipe:

6 lbs LME: $18
1 to 1.5 lbs steeping grains: $3
2 oz hops: $5
Dry yeast: $2
priming sugar: $1
Sanitizing solution: $.50/batch (probably less, but it's just a general estimate)
caps for bottles: $1.75

Total cost: $30.25
If you buy liquid yeast obviously the price goes up, but then you can harvest that yeast, and use it many times over which actually drops the price. If brewing a beer that requires only bittering hops (a stout for example) then you could easily get away with only an oz of regular AA hops, or even a half oz of high AA hops.
 
One of the cheaper beers I make is 6.5lbs 2-row at $0.72/lb, 3lbs of specialty grain at $1.65/lb and 2oz of hops at $3.50/oz and us-05 yeast at $2 a pack. All together that comes to $18.63 for 5 gallons of a nice ~5% Pale ale or ~.46 a pint.
 
All in all, the more you brew, the more oney you will be able to save, but it won't make economic sense until you are selling your beer and your profit margin is high enough to have you making more money than your current job.
 
The "it only costs $0.50 per bottle" argument is just to keep the SWMBO happy - you won't really save any significant money for a long time. And most of us invest any perceived savings into more equipment and expensive craft beer.
 
Actually Yuri, I find your idea of quitting to save money to be rather offensive. How will you get to heaven if you don't drink beer? Don't you remember (or has no one taught you) the saying?

He who drinks beer, sleeps. He who sleeps, does not sin. He who does not sin goes to heaven.

So I view brewing as a cheap path to heaven. Oh, sure, I could buy the beer at the store, but then I'd still have free time on my hands... and you know what they say about idle hands... ;)
 
The Blow Leprechaun said:
$50 isn't an unreasonable cost for an extract batch.

Brewing is a hobby, though, if your motivation is just to get cheaper beer, you're probably better off just drinking PBR. You can get high quality beer cheaper through homebrew than through buying it, but if you don't care about that then it is what it is.
Click to expand...

What he said. :rockin: I've done mostly kits that my LHBS designs (my last personal recipies were horrid) and have spent up to $45 so $50 is not outrageous. Even so, $50 for 5 gallons of quality hand crafted beer is a bargain. Now if money is a real issue for you and it very well may be, then homebrewing may not be the best hobby.
 
if u do all grain it will be cheaper instead of extract...and just enjoy brewing. dont look at it as a way to save money because all the labor u out into making the beer isnt worth saving $5. just brew to make a great tasting beer and to enjoy urself :)
 
fat x nub said:
the only big difference between grain and extract brewing equipment wise is a mash tun right?
Click to expand...
Sort of. In addition to a cooler mash tun (assuming that's what you want to use):

AG requires a full boil, so a brew kettle of 7-9 gallons is necessary. Most kitchen stoves won't boil that volume, so a burner setup is likely required. Unless you're doing an inefficient no-sparge brew, you need another 5+ gallon kettle for use as a hot liquor tank. Cooling 5+ gallons of wort with an ice bath is time consuming and inefficient at best, so a wort chiller is nearly a necessity. A desire to buy grain in bulk is almost inevitable, so a grain mill becomes necessary...etc...etc...
 
Yuri_Rage said:
Sort of. In addition to a cooler mash tun (assuming that's what you want to use):

AG requires a full boil, so a brew kettle of 7-9 gallons is necessary. Most kitchen stoves won't boil that volume, so a burner setup is likely required. Unless you're doing an inefficient no-sparge brew, another 5+ gallon kettle for use as a hot liquor tank is required. Cooling 5+ gallons of wort with an ice bath is time consuming and inefficient at best, so a wort chiller is nearly a necessity. A desire to buy grain in bulk is almost inevitable, so a grain mill becomes necessary...etc...etc...
Click to expand...

i got what ur saying. i guess the moral is that u shouldnt brew to save $$...u should brew to have fun and invent something new :)
 
Isn't that what we were all saying in the first place?

I just did the rough cost analysis math out of curiosity and figured it might be of interest to those following this thread.

:mug:
 
This is how I figured out my return on investment:

R + rX = pX
so...

X = (-R)/(r - p)


X = number of batches to come to equilibrium
p = equilibrium commercial comparison cost i.e. ($7.99 per six pack)*(8.3 six packs per batch) = $66
R = equipment cost
r = cost per batch

I made a whole spreadsheet for myself...

With an average batch (5 gal) cost of $20 and initial equipment cost of $300, I saved money after 6.5 batches.
 
mew said:
(8.3 six packs per batch)
Click to expand...
Shouldn't this number be 8.89? (640 oz / 12 oz / 6 bottles)

A few simple algebra properties will get rid of the negatives:

X = R/(p - r)

EDIT: I'm such a nerd.

FURTHER EDIT: I need to make another thirty 15 gallon batches at my average cost before I even come close to averaging $7.99 per six-pack...assuming I quit making new equipment...which isn't likely anytime soon.

AND SOME MORE: Ed needs to make 100 batches of his Haus Ale at HIS low cost (~$12) to average $7.99/six-pack with the overhead cost of his brew hut.

EVEN MORE: These assumptions don't count the cost of your time at all. If my time is worth $20/hour, my average 15 gallon batch cost goes up to roughly $240 (3 hours for recipe tweaking and ingredient ordering, 6 hours for brewing, and $60 for ingredients), and I will never achieve an average cost of $7.99/six-pack.

So, don't brew because it's cheap.

HOW ABOUT SOME MORE ECONOMICS? However, if we further consider opportunity cost, I enjoy brewing about as much as I enjoy recreational flying. I'm willing to pay $150 per hour to fly, then I must enjoy brewing at a rate of about $150 per hour. So, to quantify my benefit across 9 hours of brewing activity, I'm getting $1,350 worth of enjoyment per batch. My net cost per batch is now -$1110. At that rate, I broke even (at $7.99/six-pack) before I finished my second batch!

Brew because you enjoy it!
 
Yuri_Rage said:
Shouldn't this number be 8.89? (640 oz / 12 oz / 6 bottles)

A few simple algebra properties will get rid of the negatives:

X = R/(p - r)

EDIT: I'm such a nerd.
Click to expand...

I was assuming 50 bottles per batch, which is not exactly right, and you're correct about the negatives. I must've been lazy. All homebrewers have at least a bit of nerd in them somewhere ;)
 
I buy local also. Sure, they are more expensive than buying bulk but I don't really care. They have beer on tap at the store and they taught me how to get started brewing. I have probably been there 50 times. Thats 50 conversations and several beers. When I make an exceptional batch I bring a bottle or two.

I brew all grain and usually use 12 or 13 pounds of grains per batch. With caps, priming sugar, irish moss, sanatizer and ingredients I spend the same as most of the other guys. $25 to $30 @ batch
 
Yuri_Rage said:
Shouldn't this number be 8.89? (640 oz / 12 oz / 6 bottles)

A few simple algebra properties will get rid of the negatives:

X = R/(p - r)

EDIT: I'm such a nerd.

FURTHER EDIT: I need to make another thirty 15 gallon batches at my average cost before I even come close to averaging $7.99 per six-pack...assuming I quit making new equipment...which isn't likely anytime soon.

AND SOME MORE: Ed needs to make 100 batches of his Haus Ale at HIS low cost (~$12) to average $7.99/six-pack with the overhead cost of his brew hut.

EVEN MORE: These assumptions don't count the cost of your time at all. If my time is worth $20/hour, my average 15 gallon batch cost goes up to roughly $240 (3 hours for recipe tweaking and ingredient ordering, 6 hours for brewing, and $60 for ingredients), and I will never achieve an average cost of $7.99/six-pack.

So, don't brew because it's cheap.

HOW ABOUT SOME MORE ECONOMICS? However, if we further consider opportunity cost, I enjoy brewing about as much as I enjoy recreational flying. I'm willing to pay $150 per hour to fly, then I must enjoy brewing at a rate of about $150 per hour. So, to quantify my benefit across 9 hours of brewing activity, I'm getting $1,350 worth of enjoyment per batch. My net cost per batch is now -$1110. At that rate, I broke even (at $7.99/six-pack) before I finished my second batch!

Brew because you enjoy it!
Click to expand...

That is some awesome justification!!!!

What do you rent for $150/hr? I get an arrow+instructor for ~170/hr and can rent a 172 for 92/hr.
 
Actually, I haven't rented anything in years, but I used to rent an Archer pretty often. I've flown more recently with friends in privately owned planes and split the fuel costs with them, but that was pretty cheap flying. So, the $150 was just a rough estimate, if I were I to get back into the rental gig. Moreover, it's a reasonable estimate of what I'd be willing to spend, which was really the point.
 
really cost savings as a whole is not a factor when it's a hobby. How much the hobby costs and can you afford it, sure, but it's not about saving money.
 
I really just got my beer kit and will be brewing my first beer this weekend. I spent 229 dollars on the kit, and 26 dollars on the ingredients for a stout. I still think that I am going to be saving money by brewing beer this way even if I didn't want to to begin with. All in all I think most home brewers over time will save themselves at least a little cash, but even if you don't having something you love to do is more important than a little money.
 
I am glad you are enjoying the fruits of your first labors.

Homebrewing is not inherently cheap, although I find that I can brew craftbrew quality cheaper than craftbrew but not cheaper than megaswill-on-sale.

If you are interested in saving $$$, consider these possibilities:

* go all grain and buy malt in 50# bags
* buy extract in bulk
* brew lower-gravity, lower-alcohol beers. I prefer these anyhow.
* brew lower-hopped beers. (again, I prefer this)
* ranch liquid yeast cultures to reduce yeast costs
* grow hops for flavoring, and maybe even for bittering

As with all other things, buying in bulk is only cost-effective if you have good ways to store the material and use it all up.
 
homebrewer_99 said:
Your time per hour rate should not be a factor when it's a hobby. ;)
Click to expand...
Amen.

Personally, the reason I started brewing was that I tired of paying $37.99 for a flat of garbage ('John Labatt's Blue, the good stuff' - what a crock). I've never really gotten off only brewing because it's wonderful (although I have now discovered that it is). If I could buy better beer than I can make at a cheaper price, that's what I would most likely do.
 
Any $ you might save would also depend on the kind of beer you like and buy. I like Duvel Belgian Ale $12+ for a 4 pack that's over $3 a beer.

If I drank 2 per night @ $3 x 365 days per year = $2190 / year

vs

($0.75 x 2)365 = $547.5

for a savings of $1642.50 a year

And while brewing big 10 -15 gal batches or kegging won't save any money it will save a considerable amount of time.
 
mr x said:
Amen.

Personally, the reason I started brewing was that I tired of paying $37.99 for a flat of garbage ('John Labatt's Blue, the good stuff' - what a crock). I've never really gotten off only brewing because it's wonderful (although I have now discovered that it is). If I could buy better beer than I can make at a cheaper price, that's what I would most likely do.
Click to expand...

Hey, Labatts ain't bad!

I'd be saving money if I only bought expensive beer. So, I brew that kind of beer instead. Except I still usually buy expensive beer, just to see what it's like!

Brewing is fun, AND can save you money if you do it right and replace costly beers with your homebrew.
 

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