Exploring "no chill" brewing

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no, it was HDPE...not sure what the hell happened...
would you say the taste I mentioned sounds like DMS?
 
no, it was HDPE...not sure what the hell happened...
would you say the taste I mentioned sounds like DMS?

Off-flavors are tricky to pinpoint, especially over the internet.
Usually off-flavors are from not doing one of these:

1. Pitch the proper amount of healthy yeast
2. Aerate your wort
3. Keep your fermenting wort at proper temperatures.
4. Sanitize all equipment that contacts your wort/beer.
5. Condition your beer for at least 3 weeks. Even longer for higher gravity beers.
 
in all honesty, I don't know why you couldn't put cooled wort in a sanitized container for pitching later?
especially if you could store the cube in a cool location, then bring it out later and let it warm till its time to pitch.


Why wouldn't you pitch if you chill it though?

The advantage of no-chill is so you can hold off on pitching - whether to shorten the brew day, because you don't have the right yeast, the starter didn't fire, you want to brew but keep fermenting for later (much later - proper no chilled worts will keep for months).

If you go to the effort of chilling, why not just add yeast then and there? If you store it, you miss the advantage of chilling AND the advantage of no chilling.

Do you guys get Fresh wort kits in the states or is that mainly an aussie thing?
 
Do you guys get Fresh wort kits in the states or is that mainly an aussie thing?

The only "Fresh Wort Kits" that I've seen around are those Festa Brew things. It's a 2L or so PET bottle filled with wort and you pitch your yeast and let it go. Not too popular in my area in any event.
 
Bought my Aqua Tainer this week and am cooling my first No-Chill batch right now. Love the simplicity of it all. But the process brought up a question... After pouring the wort into the cube, I closed up the cube and it swelled like crazy. I vented it out of fear that the cube was going to burst or leak. Is this a real concern or am I just paranoid?
 
It will swell as it heats up the plastic, then shrink as everything cools down. You should open the vent right after dropping your wort in there, squeeze out as much of the excess air as you can, then seal her up. It's not going to explode, I used the exact containers without any issues for quite a few batches.
 
The only "Fresh Wort Kits" that I've seen around are those Festa Brew things. It's a 2L or so PET bottle filled with wort and you pitch your yeast and let it go. Not too popular in my area in any event.


Over here you can buy 17-20 litres of no-chilled wort to pitch yeast at at leisure. Commercially available, usually made somewhere by a microbrewery and an easy option for kit/extract brewers to get a sense of decent AG brewing without the time, effort and headspace.
 
I chill right in my brew kettle. I just take it off the stove, put the lid on it and lock it in place with a couple alligator clips. Around 24 hours later its cooled sufficiently so I transfer to a sanitized bucket and pitch my yeast.
 
so you all are using the aquatainers from walmart?

I am.

I use irish moss and then drain everything from the brew kettle into the aquatainer. I then let the cube cool on its side (with the drain spigot in the proper position for draining without moving the cube). The spigot is high enough that it leaves @ 3/4 gallon in the cube when drained, this "left over" amount consists of all the settled/coagulated break/hops/etc. I get nothing but perfectly clear wort into the primary, although I do tip the cube just a little to get a bit of that junk into the FV so the yeast have something to snack on. :rockin:
 
so you all are using the aquatainers from walmart?

In the past (before upgrading to sanke kegs for fermenters) I used them without any issues. I drained my 6 gallons of finished hot wort in to the Aquatainer, then I would squeeze all the air I could out and seal it. When it was cooled down to pitching temps I would open her up, aerate with my Mix-Stir and pitch my yeast or starter.
 
no problems with it getting flimsy. I've cooled in my brew kettles before also...let it sit outside overnight when it was like 40 degrees. That worked fine, but wasn't sure what type of plastic the aquatainers were made of.
 
no problems with it getting flimsy. I've cooled in my brew kettles before also...let it sit outside overnight when it was like 40 degrees. That worked fine, but wasn't sure what type of plastic the aquatainers were made of.

Nope, they are pretty thick. They get a little soft but anything plastic does at those temps. HDPE, just like the buckets you use.
 
In the past (before upgrading to sanke kegs for fermenters) I used them without any issues. I drained my 6 gallons of finished hot wort in to the Aquatainer, then I would squeeze all the air I could out and seal it. When it was cooled down to pitching temps I would open her up, aerate with my Mix-Stir and pitch my yeast or starter.

Does your Sanke fermenter have a hole cut into the top of it? If so, how do you seal it for fermentation?
 
So if I place my kettle in the bathtub with cold water and it takes +/- 2 hour to cool, is it still considered "no chill", but more importantly would you keep with the no chill hop schedule?
 
manticle said:
Why wouldn't you pitch if you chill it though?

The advantage of no-chill is so you can hold off on pitching - whether to shorten the brew day, because you don't have the right yeast, the starter didn't fire, you want to brew but keep fermenting for later (much later - proper no chilled worts will keep for months).

If you go to the effort of chilling, why not just add yeast then and there? If you store it, you miss the advantage of chilling AND the advantage of no chilling.

Do you guys get Fresh wort kits in the states or is that mainly an aussie thing?

The one thing I could think of would be to wait on your starter. A lot of times I brew at the last minute. If I have no dry yeast then I would want to make a starter. I could make a starter while brewing then pitch 24-48 hours later after the wort cools down.
 
The one thing I could think of would be to wait on your starter. A lot of times I brew at the last minute. If I have no dry yeast then I would want to make a starter. I could make a starter while brewing then pitch 24-48 hours later after the wort cools down.

I think you're missing the point of no chill brewing. If you are not going to pitch yeast for 24-48 hours later, you do not have to chill your wort, it will have cooled to pitching temps in 24 hours.
You also do not need to make a starter while brewing. Just drain 1000 ml of hot wort from your boil kettle into an erlenmeyer flask at the end of the boil. Chill it and use it for your starter (it's called a real wort starter). Then drain the rest of the hot wort into your no-chill container following the process discussed in this thread. Then 24 hours later when your wort has cooled to pitching temp, pour it into a fermenting bucket, aerate and pitch your whole yeast starter.
You don't have to waste water to chill, and you don't have to buy DME to make starters because you are using actual wort from your brew.
 
bigljd said:
I think you're missing the point of no chill brewing. If you are not going to pitch yeast for 24-48 hours later, you do not have to chill your wort, it will have cooled to pitching temps in 24 hours.
You also do not need to make a starter while brewing. Just drain 1000 ml of hot wort from your boil kettle into an erlenmeyer flask at the end of the boil. Chill it and use it for your starter (it's called a real wort starter). Then drain the rest of the hot wort into your no-chill container following the process discussed in this thread. Then 24 hours later when your wort has cooled to pitching temp, pour it into a fermenting bucket, aerate and pitch your whole yeast starter.
You don't have to waste water to chill, and you don't have to buy DME to make starters because you are using actual wort from your brew.

I understand the process, but very valid points. Seems pretty easy. Thanks for the clarification.
 
The one thing I could think of would be to wait on your starter. A lot of times I brew at the last minute. If I have no dry yeast then I would want to make a starter. I could make a starter while brewing then pitch 24-48 hours later after the wort cools down.

That's exactly why you no-chill though (or one advantage) - so you can get your starter exactly right. As above, I make real wort starters.
 
I'm not gonna read a thousand posts, but I want to point out that it's important to ferment this "real wort" starter at a "real fermentation" temperature! A conventional starter is typically fermented at somewhat higher temperatures, making lots of yeast quickly, but also possibly creating funky flavors.
 
I'm not gonna read a thousand posts, but I want to point out that it's important to ferment this "real wort" starter at a "real fermentation" temperature! A conventional starter is typically fermented at somewhat higher temperatures, making lots of yeast quickly, but also possibly creating funky flavors.

Hmmmm...I never even considered that.

Anyone else wanna chime in?

John
 
Hmmmm...I never even considered that.

Anyone else wanna chime in?

John

Exbeerienced is correct, your RWS needs to be done as close to fermentation temps as you can manage. In a "regular" starter you are typically done with all yeast cell growth in 12 hours, a RWS may take a bit longer but typically you are not pitching for a full 24 hours (maybe longer) so I think the lag is acceptable.

FWIW, I do almost all of my starters at around 65F.
 
I just happened upon this topic, ironically after yesterday's lengthy brew session. I did two 6 gallon batches in a row and decided I'd put them in the carboys and let them chill down in my refrigerator and pitch this morning. Amazingly this small thing took all the stress out of the long brew day. I had been considering this for a while because getting my wort down to pitching temps was a big pain and took so much water using my immersion chiller. This time I took the wort down to 90 f or so - which was pretty fast and easy before putting these in the refrigerator to take them the rest of the way down.

The real point of this for me was sop I could ferment these low - 62 f - but the whole thing may well be a regular part of my brewing process.
 
The real point of this for me was sop I could ferment these low - 62 f - but the whole thing may well be a regular part of my brewing process.

I ferment almost all my ales starting at 63F, beginning to ramp up 1.5F every day after day 4 up to around 73F. I leave it sit for 7 days at 73 then start my cold crash.

Of course this depends on the beer I am making, but I find that this works well for most of my House Ale's.
 
Hmmmm...I never even considered that.

Anyone else wanna chime in?

John

Depends on whether you are adding the whole wort as an active starter or fermenting right out to grow yeast cells and just adding the slurry.

Personally I like to use the whole wort and I'd rather let yeast do its job naturally so I ferment my starter wort at ferment temps and pitch at high krausen. I don't agitate it after evidence of fermentation signs are evident.

If you agitate and ferment high to encourage quick growth then you are better off discarding your probably oxidised starter beer and using just the slurry in which case, I would just use DME. No chill gives me the luxury of getting my real wort starter to the point I want it at without needing to rush.

My understanding is that the enzymes produced by yeast when they multiply are specific to the wort they are in. By using a real wort starter (identical to the whole wort to be fermented), you should be helping the yeast on their merry way.

Like many tidbits of information I've gleaned and tried over the years, it seems to work but I've got no conclusive proof that it does.
 
Brewed BM's Centennial Blonde this morning. It is sitting in the winpak now. I think I am going to wait 2 or 3 weeks before I pitch to this one..just to see. :)
 
I left wort in a winpak for 3 weeks one time. Beer was fine, but the scum line around the top was hard, dry, and tough to get out. I have a dental mirror to check that part of the interior that can't otherwise be seen, and the oxyclean soak didn't quite do the job. I'd like to find a winpak type container that would take the heat, but with a conical top that'd make it easier to clean and drain. If anyone knows of one I'd appreciate hearing about it.
 
Do you guys have to worry about the air space above the wort contracting during cool-down and wanting to suck in outside air, or do you always use flexible (i.e., collapsible) containers?
 
Do you guys have to worry about the air space above the wort contracting during cool-down and wanting to suck in outside air, or do you always use flexible (i.e., collapsible) containers?

I mentioned something about this before but I'm sure it got lost in the sheer hugeness of this thread. When I "No Chilled" in sanke kegs I used a carboy cap and a Sterile Air Filter because I was afraid of the vacuum collapsing the keg as well as contamination from the outside air.
 
Do you guys have to worry about the air space above the wort contracting during cool-down and wanting to suck in outside air, or do you always use flexible (i.e., collapsible) containers?

I use flexible containers that collapse with the vacuum, this gives me a visual indication that the container is indeed sealed and no external air has entered.

If you see the container starting to swell, it means ugly stuff is happening inside and that batch is a dumper. (I discovered this the hard way when I vented a cube to draw off some wort for a starter.....must have sucked in a nasty).
 
If you see the container starting to swell, it means ugly stuff is happening inside and that batch is a dumper.

Unless of course you have pitched your yeast.

Sorry...may be an obvious point but I'm sure we don't want new brewers dumping perfectly good batches! :)

John
 
If you see the container starting to swell, it means ugly stuff is happening inside and that batch is a dumper. (I discovered this the hard way when I vented a cube to draw off some wort for a starter.....must have sucked in a nasty).

Yeah I've seen that story repeated a LOT. Do not take off the top/lid/cap/whatever is sealing your No Chill vessel of choice until you are 100% ready to pitch yeast right then and there. I'm not sure why, but I guess the intake of air caused by opening the vacuum throws a ton of airborne nasties right into the wort. :mad:
 
I've got a brew I have in mind for my first go-around at no-chill. The original recipe calls for it's only hop addition of Amarillo at 15 minutes. 3-4oz, depending on AA% which makes for a smooth bitterness calculated around 30 IBU in a 1.050 beer.

According to the charts, this addition for no-chill brewing could be adjusted as a FWH addition. However, it's pretty close to being a "Transfer or hot cube" addition. The latter option could lend itself to the possibility of a much shorter boil, say 15 minutes. Any suggestions/opinions?
 
I've got a brew I have in mind for my first go-around at no-chill. The original recipe calls for it's only hop addition of Amarillo at 15 minutes. 3-4oz, depending on AA% which makes for a smooth bitterness calculated around 30 IBU in a 1.050 beer.

According to the charts, this addition for no-chill brewing could be adjusted as a FWH addition. However, it's pretty close to being a "Transfer or hot cube" addition. The latter option could lend itself to the possibility of a much shorter boil, say 15 minutes. Any suggestions/opinions?

I think you should try it. I'd love to hear the results of a 15-minute boil with no chill.
 
The only adjustment to hopping schedule I make in deference to nc is: Any additions after 10 minutes I just toss in the no-chill container before draining the wort into it.

That being said, if I was making that recipe I'd just toss all the hops into the cube. I like the smooth bitterness you get from hop-bursting and have taken to moving all my hop additions, with the exception of a very small bittering charge, into the cube. It's surprising the amount of bitterness you do get (brewing software will calculate the IBU's much lower than it actually "tastes") but it is a much smoother bitterness....if that makes any sense. You have to try it to really understand what I am talking about.
 
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