Fining beer question

I heard Jamil say he ferments his ales for 2-3 weeks, then goes straight to the keg.

Anyone do a 2 week ferment (around the 64 F mark), then crash to 34 F for a week, then straight to the keg ?

I usually use gelatin in the brite tank, but wanted to try the no gelatin method.

Thanks for the advice.

I use this method with all my "regular gravity" beers and it works great.

Brewer3401 said:

Anyone do a 2 week ferment (around the 64 F mark), then crash to 34 F for a week, then straight to the keg ?.

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I do that all the time for all my beers. No finings, No Fruit, No Corn, No Rice, and No Candy in my beer.

Reinheitsgebote!

Say I wanted "brilliantly" clear beer.
How long would it take after crashing to 34 F

Anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks, like a lager! But that's a long time.

Yep. It takes time, just sitting in the keg, undisturbed and it will fall clear.

I've had very clear beer kegged, and 1 month later became brilliantly clear. I don't want to filter (contamination and extra costs concerns).

Anyone use Polyclar or anything other than gelatin to get super fast clarification ?

I've done both; gelatin and just waiting, and gelatin doesn't work so well unless you chill the beer first. Waiting doesn't work for me so well because I'm greedy and impatient Since I'm kegging & force-carbonating it I don't need/want any yeast hanging around. I'm fermenting in a chest freezer so I can closely control the ferment, conditioning, and crash/carbonation temps

Typical batch goes like so: Primary until activity drops off severely and it's within a couple points of my target gravity (one to two weeks dependin on the yeast). Rack to second and see if it drops another point or two (at least another week or so). Chill to about 30f in the secondary for a day or so. Disolve gelatin in hot water, dump and swirl into the carboy(s). After another day or two of settling, I rack it to the kegs.

My beer's always cleaner looking when I use gelatin, but time (if you're patient) works just fine too. If I bottle for storage and conditioning, I'll gelatin so I don't get any additional crud settling out over time. If I'm just guzzling it out of the kegs, I usually leave it alone.

and gelatin doesn't work so well unless you chill the beer first.

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This isn't strictly true, gelatine and isinglass work better when the temperature is falling although I have used them successfully at a steadily temperature. They should work within a few says otherwise you are simply relying on the natural floculation and sedimentation of the yeast. (assuming isinglass has been stored correctly, is fresh and used in the correct quantity it's usually much quicker and works within 24 hrs or less, isinglass that hasn't been kept cold or is 6 months or more old is more or less ineffective)

Finings are really only necessary if you are in a hurry to serve the beer, in most cases beer will clear on its own within a few weeks if treated properly and matured correctly.

Issinglass and gelatine are positively charged and clear yeast hazes (yeast is negatively charged), Poly clar is suited for clearing protein hazes such as chill hazes which are positively charged and the finings are like a magnet, attracting the hazes and dragging them out of suspension.

I thought if you dump gelatin in 34 F beer, the gelatin would immediately gel.

If this is so, gelled gelatin won't attach to the yeast.

Am I thinking correctly on this (I add gelatin to 64 F or so, then crash to 34 F)

Brewer3401 said:

I thought if you dump gelatin in 34 F beer, the gelatin would immediately gel.

If this is so, gelled gelatin won't attach to the yeast.

Am I thinking correctly on this (I add gelatin to 64 F or so, then crash to 34 F)

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more than likely, as I said above it is most effective when the temperature is falling. (ie add the finings just before turning down the temperature controller).

Jamil's whole point on longer primary has to do with leaving the young beer on as much yeast as possible for those 3 weeks to speed (and allow) conditioning. If you crash cool the yeast, it's not only going into dormancy but also falling out of the beer and NOT conditioning the beer. It's really really hard to do what's ideal because it takes patience but I think 3-4 weeks in primary (maintained at ferment temps) and then crash cool for 48 hours prior to racking to keg is the best thing you can do. I hardly ever heed my own advice though because I'm always running out of brew. I need to brew every other week to stop myself from rushing beers into the kegs.

Bobby_M said:

Jamil's whole point on longer primary has to do with leaving the young beer on as much yeast as possible for those 3 weeks to speed (and allow) conditioning. If you crash cool the yeast, it's not only going into dormancy but also falling out of the beer and NOT conditioning the beer. It's really really hard to do what's ideal because it takes patience but I think 3-4 weeks in primary (maintained at ferment temps) and then crash cool for 48 hours prior to racking to keg is the best thing you can do. I hardly ever heed my own advice though because I'm always running out of brew. I need to brew every other week to stop myself from rushing beers into the kegs.

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Does anyone remember (when we all started brewing) to NEVER let the beer sit on yeast for over 2 weeks.

Was this just BS, or was it because most of us fermented above 70 F

This Friday will be 2 weeks, and I'm going to let it go until next Wednesday, crash to 34 F, then keg 2 days later.

I'll let you all know how it turns out.

By falling temperature I mean from fermentation temperature to cellar temperature and not chilled btw. If a beer is allowed to mature properly, more often than not if will be bright if not polished at this temperature.

Autolsys can occur within quite a short space of time although is less likely to occur quickly with a healthy yeast and good quality wort/beer that contains all the nutrients that makes a yeast happy. I suspect the 1-2 week rule of thumb dates back to the time that the yeast and extract was of dubious quality.

I pitch into 55-60 F wort, and ferment around 63 F (ales).

So, if I leave the beer on the yeast for 2-3 weeks, leave the temp at 63 F ?

Personally I believe 10-14 days in the primary is sufficient, I don't see the point in leaving it any longer. Generally i'll then rack it to the keg and mature for a further 2-3 weeks at cellar temperature. There will still be plenty of yeast in the beer which will drop out in the keg and can be drawn off with the first 1/2 pint. If I was using a less flocculant strain of yeast such as Windsor or US05 i'd add isinglass at the 10-14 day point and chill the fermenter to cellar temperature for a few days before racking to the keg. If you are racking bright beer to the keg you need to be extra careful when transfering, purging out the o2 is even more important as there is will be no yeast left to absorb it.

This method works well for English yeast strains and moderate gravity beers, stronger beers require more time in the keg to mature properly, other yeast strains may require treating differently.

OK. I left it for 14 days at 64 F, then crashed to 34 F for 5 days.

NOT CLEAR

It's not brilliantly clear like I wanted.

Next time (ale), I'm going to ferment at 64 F for 10 days, add gelatin and crash to 34 F for 7 days.

Will let you know.

EdWort said:

I do that all the time for all my beers. No finings, No Fruit, No Corn, No Rice, and No Candy in my beer.

Reinheitsgebote!

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And this is why the Germans know their beer. They have a word specifically for the concept that beer should contain 3 ingredients:

1)hops
2)malt
3)water

Reinheitsgebote, indeed!

Yeah, I rarely (see never) find crash cooling clears my beer. I hit it with the gelatin and leave for a week at room temp. That does the trick for me.

zombiejellyfish said:

And this is why the Germans know their beer. They have a word specifically for the concept that beer should contain 3 ingredients:

1)hops
2)malt
3)water

Reinheitsgebote, indeed!

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I think nowadays they let them use No. 4.

Yeast.

orfy said:

I think nowadays they let them use No. 4.

Yeast.

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Plus the ORIGINAL Reinheitsgebot also stated a liter of beer would not be sold costing more than 1 pfenning... ...last Oktoberfest it was over $10.00.

Am I the only one that uses Irish Moss (Carageenan) during the boil? Granted, my first sip is 4 weeks from brewday at the earliest, but my beers are Crystal!

Sea said:

Am I the only one that uses Irish Moss (Carageenan) during the boil? Granted, my first sip is 4 weeks from brewday at the earliest, but my beers are Crystal!

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I use whirlfloc. Do you fine after fermentation ?