1st brew using shop bought kit...

Hi,

Totally new to all this brewing lark but thought i'd give it a try seen as i got given some equipment for nothing, so thought,.. well i got nothing to lose.

Decided to buy... ok wait for it.. a shop bought kit i know probably not the best way but like i said new to this so thought i'd start small.

I bought the youngs brewbuddy cider kit for 40 pints of 5% or 32 pints of 7% so i went for the latter

The equipent i'm using is:

fermenting bucket
pressure barrel
thermometer
hydrometer

just the basics. According to the intructions which i have followed so far to the letter it needs 7 days maybe a few more for the strong recipe. So now 10 days into fermenting the SG is around 1.002 it says that it will be ready at 998?
It started off smelling quite nice, like cider should, it now smells rank!! is this normal?
Also 7 days doesnt sound very long for this process, in fact from start to finsih it states around 3 weeks till ready for drinking??? surly this cant be right?

temp is currently at 24c and stays around this temp all the time. I didnt realise i should have taken the SG before adding the yeast as the instructions dont say to

Just wondering if someone could shed some light on what i should be doing or even what i should have done.

cheers

rob

Did you get/use any sanitizer?

Ciders don't always smell nice while they're fermenting. Do a search on here for "rhino farts" if you'd like some creative descriptions. It generally gets better as fermentation progresses. I suppose a cider could be ready in 3 weeks under ideal conditions, but 6-8 weeks work better for me. I don't use a kit, however; just juice and ale yeast. So as they say, "your mileage may vary."

Clifton said:

Did you get/use any sanitizer?

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Yes i did,cleaned all equipment before use.

jcobbs said:

Ciders don't always smell nice while they're fermenting. Do a search on here for "rhino farts" if you'd like some creative descriptions. It generally gets better as fermentation progresses. I suppose a cider could be ready in 3 weeks under ideal conditions, but 6-8 weeks work better for me. I don't use a kit, however; just juice and ale yeast. So as they say, "your mileage may vary."

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Ahh ok cheers. Glad its normal to smell like something died in there. So can you leave it too long in 1st fermenting stage? Or the longer the better?

also in the kit instructions it says that once bubbles have stopped forming the fermenting is finished? I take it this is very vague in the sense that it is probably still fermenting seen as the SG has not reached where it should be.

What result would i get if i were to add more sugar at this early stage? will this reactivate the yeast and make the cider stronger? or would this ruin my brew?

that's crap! you are right, the only way to know is to monitor the gravity. it can be fermenting away and you might not see bubbles, and you can see bubbles forming after it is done fermenting, as gas comes out of solution. you can add sugar and it will ferment, but if you are adding it dry be careful, with a lot of gas in solution if you add powder you can cause it to foam up uncontrollably.

Yeah, only go by your gravity readings - foaming, bubbing, and anything else are just "side effects" of fermentation - you can't rely on them to tell you what's happening, as it varies massively with your yeast/ingredients/etc.

You'll want to let it clear in your bucket anyway (your primary fermenter,) so that the sediment and the good stuff seperate, and by that time, it'll be finished fermenting. once that's done, syphon the cider out into your sterilized keg (secondary,) leaving out the rubbish at the bottom. leave for a few weeks, add gas, drink.

My experience of cider kits has always been a bad one, I've made three and have no idea what to do with my leftover can because they have all been pretty awful. Beer Kits tend to taste a lot better, on the other hand. If you're disappointed, try Edwort's Apfelwein - this forum's most popular recipe I reakon. nobody is ever disappointed with it, it's bloody delicious!

The more sugar you add, the stronger it will be yeah, but you want your sugars to come from natural sources as much as possible because it won't add any flavor. It's tempting to up the percentage I know, I did the same thing early on, but you're much better off working towards a really tasty cider than a strong one.

That makes sense

Yeah i werent to sure about these kits but thought as it a 1st atempt id give it a try to get the hang of it.

As far as adding more sugar, you say natural forms of it , so something like honey? IF i were to add more sugar of some sort would i need to stir it in, which intail could that mess things up? no idea what i'm doing lol

Then i suppose the question would then be how much should i add if i was going to do this? i have 4 gallons in bucket.

So once this stage has finsihed i then transfer to my pressure barrel and add more sugar to carbonate it ( this is the part i'm more worried about lol )

last thing i want is a room painted in sticky cider as well as the mrs killing me!

If this brew dosent go according to plan or even if it does i certainly will look into doing a brew from scratch as i' sure it will taste alot better

By natural forms, I mean the substance you are making the alcohol from - in this case, apples/apple juice would be your best addition, because they also supply the flavor you want. Generally if you're adding extra sugar, you'll want to just heat it up in a pan with a bit of water to make a syrup, then add it in that way and stir the brew plenty - your only aim is to dissolve it and evenly distribute it really. It's fine to, but like I say - concentrate on flavor, not strength. You've got 4 gallons there, so relax!

Glucose should dissolve with no heating, so you could just stir that in if you want it stronger. I would recommend a quick boil to ensure it's sterile anyway. It'll only take a few mins - and remember to sterilize anything that's going to touch your cider.

If you're aiming for 7% and you followed the instructions, your cider probably started off life around 1.050. You're probably close to just over 6.3% right now, so don't add much - a pound or two at most. you can calculate it using your hydrometer. It has a "sugar per litre" reading on the side, so just trace up to 1.050, find what percentage you want, and see how much difference there is between the two sugar readings.

Adding sugar to carb is easy, but it'll take a while to carb that way, and you'll have to do it every time you run out - whereas gas is instant and not very expensive - once you own the cylinder, it's about £2 for refills at your LHBS and they should last a keg each. Your pressure barrel has a safety release cap, so if the pressure gets too high, it'll let it out, so nothing should explode. Stick to the recommendation, of course. Bottles are what you've got to worry about, but I'm the same most of the time - I use a keg because it's easier!

If anything too, your first kit will at least teach you how the process works and iron out a few questions you have, so no harm done! Best of luck with it all mate.

Thanks a bit of food for thought there!

So adding apple juice would be the best option by the sounds of it. I take it i need to get a apple juice which is pure as i can get? no additives or preservatives? Can you suggest a brand or such that i should go for, maybe organic or something?

So quanity wise would 1-2 litres be ok? or is that too little?

As far as adding more sugar i.e apple juice if my brew is currenty at 6.3% then i add more juice and bring the SG upto 1.050 .. well thats if the juice does the same as the sugar so to speak?
So in doing that will that essentally double my alcohol content? Not sure i want rocket fuel lol

Not sure that i will be buying a co2 cylinder just yet! think i will take the other option for now by adding sugar. So if i understand this right, once i added the sugar to carb it , give it a week and it will be done then over time it will lose its gas and i will then have to add more sugar? I take it this will not sweeten it as the yeast will eat the sugar producing co2?

god! so many questions lol sorry

this is almost as complicated as keeping my marine fish tank haha

cheers

rob

Hahah, I can't speak for fish, but it's all quite easy once you get to grips with it. Adding sugar will cause the carbonation yes, because the side product of the yeast has nowhere to escape to - whereas when you ferment, you use an airlock so the co2 can escape. the increase in pressure from this will cause your cider to dispense like it does from draught taps at the pub - when it's used up all the co2 produced, you'll need to add more sugar in then. It won't lose co2 gradually unless there's somewhere for it to escape to, it's just used up, much like petrol (which incidentally is what it sounds like you're brewing )

As for upping the sugar content if you want to ferment the same brew a second time to make it stronger - for ease of use, you'd probably be better adding in sugar, because you've already got your water content in there. Next time, try and add enough the first time around

Apple juice - your only acceptable preservative is vitamin C, apparently - others can cause your cider not to ferment, which would result in no carbonation if you add it at a late stage, or no fermentation whatsoever if you try to use it as your base ingredient to ferment. You'll want to get juice that isn't from concentrate (100%,) and only the juice and vitamin C can be there. I use Morrisons "best" Cloudy Organic Apple Juice. it's about £1.20 a litre, but it's often on 2 for £2. any other type of 100% supermarket juice would suffice.

cider i've made from kits takes around four days at 24 0C

yet from juice takes a few weeks/days depending on the yeast i use!


To carb..
Add one teaspoon of sugar per litre dissolved in a little water, I'd estimate beweetn 90 - 120 g per five gallon.
Long you leave it, More carbed it'll get.
If you drink quicker mate, You might still taste a tiny amount of sweetness as you need to weight for the yeast to finish

well mine has been fermenting for 2 weeks now and the SG still hasnt reached 998 so i'm just going to wait untill it does , or well as near as.

Went to tesco's today and got some pure apple juice which i'm going to add once it has got to room temp,.. or should i heat in a pan to sterilize it? Just going to add 1 litre see how that goes, hopefully will add a bit of flavour.

@ renshaw

out of interest which kit did you get?

After adding the apple juice i can see bubbles coming to the surface again, stuck my head in the bucket to smell it and coughed my guts up lol gas up my nose! Is it normal to be carbinated when in first fermenting stage?
I sampled a small amount tasted ok if not a little watery and slightly fizzy although had a cider sort of taste.
SG has now reached 1.000 so i'm wondering if i should barrel it soon? or hang on until saturday which would be 3 weeks fermenting then.

right mate
I has started secondary fermentation.
If you want it carb then keg it now, with a little extra sugar (100g) ish i think.

If you don't want it carbed then leave the yeasties to get rid of all the apple juice.

If you wanted to keep the apple flavour that you added search for "how to stop fermentation in wine" cannot remember the chemical but their is something you add so you can add fruit

Don't want to hijack the thread and yes this is my first post (Lurking around a long while so Hello!!!) I have the same kit along with another tested at 6% and looking nice and clear and am happy at the strength and clarity of the primary. My question is the Mrs has organised a party on the 23rd of this month and I do prefer some carbonation in the bottle. Do I have time to get out a clear but likely not so great cider in time for a lot of people who will prefer volume over content while trying to give them a home brewed flavour?

As for storebought juice - I havn't sterilized in the past and havn't had any problems. But that's not to say it's not wise to boil it up first...

aquabloke said:

Don't want to hijack the thread and yes this is my first post (Lurking around a long while so Hello!!!) I have the same kit along with another tested at 6% and looking nice and clear and am happy at the strength and clarity of the primary. My question is the Mrs has organised a party on the 23rd of this month and I do prefer some carbonation in the bottle. Do I have time to get out a clear but likely not so great cider in time for a lot of people who will prefer volume over content while trying to give them a home brewed flavour?

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if it's clear and you are happy with it then the answer is... Maybe! probably. if you are sure it is finished fermenting then you can prime as for beer, bottle it, and wait and see. if you aren't sure (if still fermenting then you risk exploding bottles) or are willing to risk over-priming for the sake of speed then you could bung in a little extra sugar and bottle safely in 2L plastic bottles, not very classy but effective, and you know from feel when they done, almost rock hard and you are there, then fridge them until the party. if you have fridge space that is. you never know how long they are going to take to carb up, too many variables, so there is no rule of thumb. could take 3 days could take 3 weeks

dinnerstick said:

if it's clear and you are happy with it then the answer is... Maybe! probably. if you are sure it is finished fermenting then you can prime as for beer, bottle it, and wait and see. if you aren't sure (if still fermenting then you risk exploding bottles) or are willing to risk over-priming for the sake of speed then you could bung in a little extra sugar and bottle safely in 2L plastic bottles, not very classy but effective, and you know from feel when they done, almost rock hard and you are there, then fridge them until the party. if you have fridge space that is. you never know how long they are going to take to carb up, too many variables, so there is no rule of thumb. could take 3 days could take 3 weeks

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Many thanks for the advice, its all bottled up now and the waiting game begins.

I have started using Tesco 2 litre 17p still water pet bottles as I make the next brew with the still water and prefer the slightly safer idea of not exploding glass bottles in the house. Here's hoping it will be ready in time