Belgian Low/Medium Gravity Ale Help

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permo

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I am about to try my first belgian. I have succesfully farmed yeast from a few bottles of Chimay, so I have a good yeast strain available. Now I just need a medium gravity recipe to try this yeast strain out on. This way I will be able to wash a TON of chimay yeast from the batch.

I have made a bunch of dark candi sugar and a bunch of light colored candi sugar.

I have summit and argentine cascade hops available. Here is what I was thinking for a 6 gallon batch

11# pilsen malt
1.5 # candi sugar clear
.50 oz summit at 60 minutes for bittering (25 IBU or so)
1 oz argentine cascade at 5 minutes ( 1 IBU or so) for aroma/flavor

1 liter chimay yeast starter


I really need some direction on this, help please! What temp to ferment? I am thinking something like a lower gravity tripel...belgian light ale?
 
I would personally avoid the summit and cascade and pick up some noble hops instead. Other than that you can't go wrong with pilsen and 10-15% sugar.
 
Having just completed a ferment of an IPAish beer with Chimay yeast, I may be of some assistance. It didn't want to get below 1.025 FG but it started well over 1.090... Anyway...

You're probably going to be in the mid-6% ABV on this. While that isn't high for a Belgian, it may be higher than you're looking for. However, you say you want a low gravity tripelish "Belgian light ale" so that is probably OK.

As for temp, I did mine at basically room temp (~67) for about 3 weeks then ramped it up over a few days to about 74. It seemed to like the temps, just try to make sure it doesn't get too cold or too warm... Upper 60's to lower 70's put off some nice flavors. Chimay doesn't throw a ton of flavors like some of the Belgian yeasts I've used but it sure isn't US-05 either... You don't want it too cold.

Depending on how dark you want the beer, you can add the sugar earlier or later in the boil. The higher the gravity, the darker the beer will get during the boil as compared to a lower gravity wort boiled for the same length of time. Also, the longer you boil, the darker it will get. Keep in mind, however, the longer the boil, the more caramelized the wort will get and the higher the final gravity will probably be.

Were this mine (which, obviously it isn't), I'd probably try to do your "light ale" and mash it a little lower, maybe around 147 - 149 for about 60 - 90 minutes judging solely on the ingredients you have. That should make for a lighter, drier finished product since you'll have a wort with more fermentables. I've heard conflicting stories on how long to boil to drive off DMS. Some say that 30 minutes is plenty for any wort. Others say that 90 minutes is needed for Pilsner malt. I'd just try not to keep it "rolling" to minimize the Malliard reactions (previously noted above) and get the wort way down in the FG, maybe even under 1.010 if possible. But, again, that's me.

Don't know if that helps or not but that's what I got.
 
I would personally avoid the summit and cascade and pick up some noble hops instead. Other than that you can't go wrong with pilsen and 10-15% sugar.

Summit shouldn't be too much of an issue since he's using them at 60 mins. You're not going to notice too much flavor from them. Plus, Chimay yeast really showcases that sort of flavor, imo, even if it is subtle.

Argentine Cascade are sort of like a noble hop and nothing at all like US Cascade. I've used them in hefes, stouts, and Belgians without an issue.
 
Wow, thank you so much for you detailed input!

I think the summit will be fine too, at 60 minutes it will strictly bittering.....

Also, the argentine cascades are a noble hop substitute, they are not like the american version. They are low AA, slightly spicy suitable for lager/pilsen beers.

I am going to let my Chimay yeast starter ferment out completely, I will then chill the starter to floc out the yeast. Then I will discard the starter beer and pitch the settled yeast at 75 degrees and see what happens.
 
Wow, thank you so much for you detailed input!

I think the summit will be fine too, at 60 minutes it will strictly bittering.....

Also, the argentine cascades are a noble hop substitute, they are not like the american version. They are low AA, slightly spicy suitable for lager/pilsen beers.

I am going to let my Chimay yeast starter ferment out completely, I will then chill the starter to floc out the yeast. Then I will discard the starter beer and pitch the settled yeast at 75 degrees and see what happens.

Sounds good. That's about what I do; put the starter in the fridge, pour off the liquid, then pour it back into the wort. Sometimes it helps to pour a little wort back into the starter container and then pour it back into the wort.

I've not fermented it at 75 before but that should be OK.

My only other suggestion would be that, maybe, you could add a tenth of an ounce of the summit at 2 to 0 mins to give some aroma and a little flavor. The yeast will give you both but the hop may help drive the "light ale" message home better than a typically hopped Belgian; i.e. tripel, dubbel, etc where the yeast and specialty malts/sugars do most of the talking. As you're essentially not following a style guideline, a little hop aroma in your Belgian may be a good thing. I've got a "Belgian Pale" that clocked in at almost 10% ABV that I used Delirium Tremens harvested yeast in; I actually put in Argentine Cascade as my 0 min addition (plus I put in quite a few hops from 15 mins on down) and it came out great!
 
Nice to hear somebody else using argentine cascade as a finishing hop! I have just recieved my first pound of them so I am excited to see how they turn out.

I have found summit best to be used very sparingly.....a little goes a long ways...if you use too much...you get a little onion flavor..not cool.
 
Ok, now I have another question. My chimay starter obviously has some active yeast in it...but there is not a ton of activity. It is slowly forming foam on the top with some bubbles in the wort from top to bottom. I would really like to get a fermentation out of this yeast so I can wash it, but I don't want to ruin five gallons of beer.

Do you think I should continue on with this yeast and see what happens, or maybe get some WLP500 to keep around just in case the chimay doesn't ferment the batch?

I am assuming that the chimay will eventually start up if put in five gallons of 1.050 beer.....but I have been wrong before.

I have heard that the actuall bottle harvested chimay is much better than WLP500..so that is why I am going through all the trouble.
 
If you are worried, maybe you should step up the starter once before pitching.
 
If you are worried, maybe you should step up the starter once before pitching.

I stepped it up this morning, and it is not showing a ton of life right now. I think I am going to pitch it into a 1.050 OG blonde type ale and see what happens.
 
Sounds like a pretty normal starter to me. I've had them foam a little and look like nothing too special. I wouldn't worry unless you've got nothing on top and no "beer smell" coming from your starter. Also, depending on how much yeast you harvested, it could take a while to really kick off. I typically use as many as I can to get a starter going when I harvest. A single beer usually has very few active yeast and can take some time... Foaming means something is going on so give it a day or 2.
 
Sounds like a pretty normal starter to me. I've had them foam a little and look like nothing too special. I wouldn't worry unless you've got nothing on top and no "beer smell" coming from your starter. Also, depending on how much yeast you harvested, it could take a while to really kick off. I typically use as many as I can to get a starter going when I harvest. A single beer usually has very few active yeast and can take some time... Foaming means something is going on so give it a day or 2.

There was decent foam before I stepped it up, now there isn't much going on. Maybe it finished and I didn't even noticed.

i wonder if I should taste it and see if it is attenuated at all?

I used the sediment from three bottles of Chimay so there is a decent amount of yeast cells in there.
 
I just crushed the grains

8# bohemian pilsen
1# red wheat
1# light candi sugar
.50 oz summit at 60
.25 summit at flameout.

Mash at 149 and let'er rip.

I hope the yeast takes off like a rocket, but I have my doubts.
 
It will probably take about 1 to 1.5 days unless you really have a good starter before you notice much. I tend to do 2L starters and they can take from a few hours to nearly a day... On a side note, if you didn't start your starter recently, there's a good chance it didn't finish. I tend to start mine 4 or 5 days to well over a week ahead of time. If I'm using a freshly harvested yeast, I'll double that, minimum.
 
It will probably take about 1 to 1.5 days unless you really have a good starter before you notice much. I tend to do 2L starters and they can take from a few hours to nearly a day... On a side note, if you didn't start your starter recently, there's a good chance it didn't finish. I tend to start mine 4 or 5 days to well over a week ahead of time. If I'm using a freshly harvested yeast, I'll double that, minimum.

Well, the stepped up starter is now churning exactly like a mini fermentation! Awesome.

I started this one on Friday, so it is 4 days old. I am brewing tonight so I am going to pitch the actively fermenting stepped up starter in it's entirety into my brew. My experience has shown that actively fermenting starters usually start the primary fermentation fast. We'll see what happens.

I am excited about this recipe, it should give me a nice, pale, spicy/citrus belgian style ale. There is no doubt in my mind that the yeast is going to work by the looks of my starter.

My plans are as follows. I will bottle this brew after 3 weeks in primary and bottle condition it. I am going to wash the yeast, but save an extra large washed slurry to use for a 1.080 OG tripel that I am planning. Likely 16 pounds of pilsen, 1 # carapils and 2# clear candi sugar...or something along those lines.

The chimay was my first taste of trappist ales...I am fascinated at this point.
 
Glad things are working out. And I hope the ferment goes well. Just keep a handle on the temps and keep them in the upper 60s and you'll be fine. Personally, I'd probably only let it sit about a week to maybe two after fermentation. You don't have a huge SG so you shouldn't need a heck of a lot of extra time.

I've had all the Trappists other than Westy. I like them all pretty well and they all bring something a little different to the table. Try an Orval if you haven't already as it is the most unique, at least to me. And, if you haven't gotten your feet wet with Belgians yet, you're in for a treat!

I'd not worry too much about clear candi sugar. It's basically the same thing as regular sugar. The acidic wort will invert it for you. If you've got a mind to, you can make clear invert sugar yourself... Your recipe looks fine to me. I'd probably just go with 16 lbs of pilsner, 2 lbs of sugar, 1lb of light (as in SRM 8 or so) homemade invert sugar (both added at the end of the boil). But, if you have carapils on hand, go with it, you won't regret it.

Again, good luck!
 
Glad things are working out. And I hope the ferment goes well. Just keep a handle on the temps and keep them in the upper 60s and you'll be fine. Personally, I'd probably only let it sit about a week to maybe two after fermentation. You don't have a huge SG so you shouldn't need a heck of a lot of extra time.

I've had all the Trappists other than Westy. I like them all pretty well and they all bring something a little different to the table. Try an Orval if you haven't already as it is the most unique, at least to me. And, if you haven't gotten your feet wet with Belgians yet, you're in for a treat!

I'd not worry too much about clear candi sugar. It's basically the same thing as regular sugar. The acidic wort will invert it for you. If you've got a mind to, you can make clear invert sugar yourself... Your recipe looks fine to me. I'd probably just go with 16 lbs of pilsner, 2 lbs of sugar, 1lb of light (as in SRM 8 or so) homemade invert sugar (both added at the end of the boil). But, if you have carapils on hand, go with it, you won't regret it.

Again, good luck!

Man, you sure know about belgian beer! I will try an orval for sure. I wonder if I can harvest yeast from that as well. I personally preferred the chimay tripel, but the grand reserve was awesome too....they were all great. I think the secondary ferment in bottle gives them a silky carbonation and mouthfeel.

I have been making my own inverted sugar with citric acid, table sugar and water. I made a dark one that I cooked at 165 degrees for 3 hours before bringing it up to hard crack. I put 2 pounds of this in a barley wine after 5 days of fermentation recently. I also make clear candi, I just bring it up to hard crack and cool it.

Man, I can't wait to start making the heavy gravity belgian ales, I hope this yeast is OK..if so I will be a happy guy!
 
OG = 1.046 hit %75 efficiency right on the nose as intended.

Type: All Grain
Date: 2/6/2010
Batch Size: 6.00 gal
Brewer: CP
Boil Size: 7.58 gal
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (12.5 gal) and Cooler (48 qt)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00


Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
0.50 oz Summit [18.00 %] (60 min) Hops 28.2 IBU
0.25 oz Summit [18.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 10.00 %
1 chimay harvested yeast starter



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.047 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG Measured Final Gravity: ??
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.67 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.69 %
Bitterness: 28.2 IBU Calories: 202 cal/pint
Est Color: 3.2 SRM


If this isn't highly drinkable I will be suprised!
 
Man, you sure know about belgian beer! I will try an orval for sure.

My son has been dutifully studying Belgians one beer at a time. He has yet to find anything he prefers to Rochefort 10. Like all clones, I've seen recipes all over the map on it. Some seem to be overly complex by may still arrive at the right taste.
 
My son has been dutifully studying Belgians one beer at a time. He has yet to find anything he prefers to Rochefort 10. Like all clones, I've seen recipes all over the map on it. Some seem to be overly complex by may still arrive at the right taste.

Well now I have to find the Rochefort 10 at my beer outlet this weekend. I have had a lot of ales in my day, and having a true trappist ale really blew me away.

I know what I brewed tonight is certainly not traditional in any sense, but it's main goal was to get a healthy yeast cake to wash..so I can capture 7-10 jars of yeast......and use the rest to pitch a tripel on! I should know within a day or two if this thing is going to ferment...but when you pitch an actively fermenting starter into the beer...your odds of something happening are very good.

The starter was at 70 degrees and so was the wort when I pitched....perfecto! Time to sit back and enjoy a kolsch
 
Orval uses a strain of Brett to bottle condition. While you can harvest it easily, it isn't going to be something you can use to make an Orval clone from start to finish.

I also like Rochefort. It is interesting and is one not to miss. Do a quick Google search for Trappist breweries and take the list with you to the beer store... The only one you won't find (unless you're quite lucky) in a well stocked beer store is going to be Westvleteren as they don't sell it commercially in the US (or most anywhere else other than the monestary).

And Belgians, in general, are all over the map as has been stated. You can go from a simple lager to a saison to a single malt golden strong to an aged lambic to a complex dark strong and still only have tasted a small sample of what's out there. The beauty of it is, you can almost always find something you'll enjoy... and you'll get ideas to last you for years!
 
Well,, after about 10 hours there isn't much going on the fermenter. So far with the Chimay yeast I have found about 24 hours to be the normal lag time, so I am hoping this is true once again......

have you guys found this strain to be slow starting? I am hoping after my 10 hour work day today I at least have some signs of life...little white "clouds" on the surface or something. I do know for a fact I pitched quite a few active/healthy yeast cells into that wort so i am hoping it just takes a little time for them to acclimate and reproduce.
 
As for Westvleteren, you can find some at alot of Belgian pubs & even in Amsterdam (pubs & store).

According to what they advertise, it isn't supposed to be resold. And you can only pick up a case at a time. I've only been to a few places in Belgium (and only the airport in Amsterdam) so I can't say for sure if people respect that. I've yet to see more than a single bottle here in the US at a store. And that was behind the counter.

Anyway, I'd give the Chimay a day to adjust and get started. I wouldn't worry until at least 2 full days had gone by. It was semi-slow to start (probably within 12 - 18 hours) but I had bubbles galore within 1.5 days.
 
I think St. Barnubus? is supposed to be close to the Westy? They produced it before the monks took it 'back in house' and claim it is the original recipe? No?
 
Well, 24 hours after pitching my starter I am at full krausen. Ambient temp is 67, fermenter is at 72.....should be about perfect! I am so excited to get my hands an an authentic trappist yeast strain!
 

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