klyph
Well-Known Member
With a pump that kicks a strong whirlpool, you'll still get a decent cone in the middle, but it won't work quite as well as without the element being there.
Heatsticks vs mounting element in keggle...
- Thread starter Dgonza9
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kal
Well-Known Member
Older thread but I have to chime in to point out I agree with both comments above. I'd never, ever, use a heatstick myself. The fact that they're not physically attache/stable just scares the crap out of me.
Kal
OP
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Dgonza9
Well-Known Member
I figured I'd give an update. I mounted two elements and properly potted them in a water proof electrical box. I plug them into a switched gfci and I'm good to go. I've done quite a few 10 gallon batches this way. It's plenty of power and I feel much safer than using heat sticks. They scrub clean in a few seconds afterwards.
In my opinion, 240V isn't needed, though it's maybe a cleaner install and requires less holes.
In my opinion, 240V isn't needed, though it's maybe a cleaner install and requires less holes.
CanadianQuaffer
Well-Known Member
I have a (maybe) stupid question about using heating elements, whether in a heat stick or mounted in your kettle.
How do you control the temeprature of your water? Right now I am forced to do concentrated wort boils on my gas stove in a 4 gallon pot because the stove lacks the power to boil 6 gallons for a full wort boil in my 10 gallon pot. But at least with gas I have *very* precise and immediate control over the temperature of my water.
Is it possible to get *some* sort of control (I'm assuming electric will always be inferior to gas/propane in this regard) with heating elements? I'm asking because I'm toying with the idea of making an all electric brewery in my basement, with elements mounted in my 10 gallon pot, so I can stay out of the kitchen.
Thanks!
Nick
How do you control the temeprature of your water? Right now I am forced to do concentrated wort boils on my gas stove in a 4 gallon pot because the stove lacks the power to boil 6 gallons for a full wort boil in my 10 gallon pot. But at least with gas I have *very* precise and immediate control over the temperature of my water.
Is it possible to get *some* sort of control (I'm assuming electric will always be inferior to gas/propane in this regard) with heating elements? I'm asking because I'm toying with the idea of making an all electric brewery in my basement, with elements mounted in my 10 gallon pot, so I can stay out of the kitchen.
Thanks!
Nick
wyzazz
Well-Known Member
You need to use a PWM + SSR or PID + SSR combo to control the temps or power of the element in an electric setup. There are tons of threads in this sub-forum with info on various builds.
kal
Well-Known Member
Most do it with a PID/SSR combination.
I'm afraid your assumption is incorrect.
From my FAQ:
What are the benefits of brewing with electricity vs. gas?
There are many benefits to brewing with electricity vs. gas:
- Easier precise control of temperature
- Safer for indoor brewing (no poisonous gases, no emissions)
- Absolutely silent (the bigger gas burners required for brewing sound like jet engines!)
- Much more efficient use of energy (our 5500W heating elements produce ~20,000 BTUs of heat and will outperform an 80,000 BTU propane burner)
- No tanks to refill
- Cheaper to run (use $1-2 in electricity instead of approximately half a tank of propane per batch)
We don't know of one brewer who, after switching to electric, wished they were still using gas.
That's what I do as well. I have complete build plans on my site if you're curious (see my signature).
Kal
CanadianQuaffer
Well-Known Member
Thanks Kal, I will definitely be checking your site out!
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is a "PID/SSR combination."? My knowledge of electricity stops after knowing it turns my lights on and it can kill me.
I just assumed that electric heating would be inferior to gas heating when it comes to temperature control because an electric stove is inferior to a gas stove in this regard. Gas responds much more quickly.
And I see you're in Ottawa, just like me! Well, actually I live just outside of Kanata in Dunrobin.
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is a "PID/SSR combination."? My knowledge of electricity stops after knowing it turns my lights on and it can kill me.
I just assumed that electric heating would be inferior to gas heating when it comes to temperature control because an electric stove is inferior to a gas stove in this regard. Gas responds much more quickly.
And I see you're in Ottawa, just like me! Well, actually I live just outside of Kanata in Dunrobin.
kal
Well-Known Member
Hi!
A PID is a "proportional integral derivative controller". See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
To quote my website:
An SSR is a solid state relay that is used to turn the heating element on/off as required. The PID controls it. Think of an SSR as a high powered switch.
Kal
A PID is a "proportional integral derivative controller". See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
To quote my website:
An SSR is a solid state relay that is used to turn the heating element on/off as required. The PID controls it. Think of an SSR as a high powered switch.
Kal
CanadianQuaffer
Well-Known Member
I'm left wondering how much one of these costs now, lol! They sound pricey.
kal
Well-Known Member
If you heated and boiled your beer in the same way as you heat food on an electric stove, then possibly this comparison could be used. But there are differences. FWIW, I've owned both electric (corian cooktop) and gas ranges of various models. I find it's not possible to issue a blanket statement that for ranges gas is better than electric. It's all about how it's implemented. (My first 100% gas stove sucked as it was cheap piece of crap, my second all electric with corian cooktop was great and heated up fast, my current dual fuel [gas top, electric bottom] is too new to tell).
The "speed of response" also doesn't matter I don't think when you're heating 5-20 gallons of wort. There's so much thermal mass that it really doesn't make a difference if the electric element takes 10 seconds to heat up versus a gas element that has 100% heat in about 1 second.
Electric brewers have the element right in the liquid so that 100% of the heat goes into the liquid. Gas brewers probably lose 70-80% of the heat to the atmosphere (it goes around the pot).
Kal
kal
Well-Known Member
A PID's about $40. An SSR of the right amperage is around $20. There's all sorts of other "stuff" you may want as well. I suggest you start reading and figure out what you want and then start asking questions/reading.
Kal
CanadianQuaffer
Well-Known Member
If you heated and boiled your beer in the same way as you heat food on an electric stove, then possibly this comparison could be used. But there are differences. FWIW, I've owned both electric (corian cooktop) and gas ranges of various models. I find it's not possible to issue a blanket statement that for ranges gas is better than electric. It's all about how it's implemented. (My first 100% gas stove sucked as it was cheap piece of crap, my second all electric with corian cooktop was great and heated up fast, my current dual fuel [gas top, electric bottom] is too new to tell).
The "speed of response" also doesn't matter I don't think when you're heating 5-20 gallons of wort. There's so much thermal mass that it really doesn't make a difference if the electric element takes 10 seconds to heat up versus a gas element that has 100% heat in about 1 second.
Electric brewers have the element right in the liquid so that 100% of the heat goes into the liquid. Gas brewers probably lose 70-80% of the heat to the atmosphere (it goes around the pot).
Kal
Ah, that makes a lot of sense. As for electric vs gas, I was referring to those occasions where you you need to bring something down from a boil to a simmer ASAP. With gas all you do is crank the knob from high to low and bang, boil to simmer in seconds...with an electric stove it can take minutes for that boil to calm down to a simmer.
But the way you explained the superiority of an element (using 100% of its heat) vs gas makes all the sense in the world.
All I'm looking to do for now is modify my kettle only so I'm going to have to really pour through your website to see how to do this. Now that I've seen it, I actually remember one of my friends that I brew with found your site about a year ago and he couldn't stop talking about it...now I see why!
OP
OP
Dgonza9
Well-Known Member
I do not have a PID and SSR for my boil kettle. My estimate is that 2000W is about right to boil 6-7 gallons of total liquid for a 5.5 gallons batch. I mounted two of these in the keggle so I can do 10 gallons. This way no PID/SSR is needed. I just plug the mounted elements into a switched gfci and turn them on or off with the switch.
Works well, though the PID is also a great solution if you want more power for quickly heating liquids and then want to control the boil a bit more precisely.
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