First brew soon, need some advice about what to start with

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Kevin K

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If all goes as planned, I'll be buying my brewing equipment this weekend.

Would I be wise to purchase a kit such as this for my first?

Barons-Prem-Box.jpg


[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]From the manufacturer:

Barons Premium Beer Kits offer you 7.5 litres (2 gallons) of high quality concentrated wort* to get you underway to creating a natural beer of outstanding flavour, ready to brew with conventional brewing equipment, with no need for boiling!Barons is defined by superior ingredients, state-of-the-art processing and unique user-friendly packaging which preserves product freshness.

With Barons, we handle the preparation of premium malt, hops and water. We even throw in a special add pack of finishing hop pellets, allowing dry-hopping for extra aroma and a further hint of flavour. You handle the rest - and it couldn’t be simpler.
Barons offers a range of popular North American styles in addition to a selection of premium microbrew styles that offer full aromas and flavours for the discerning beermaker.
See how easy it is to brew a high quality, deliciously refreshing beer with Barons Premium Beer Kits.
*You add 3 gallons of water to make up 5 gallons of beer.
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Or would I be better off buying a kit like this:

morgans-wheat.jpg

[FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica] The reigning Australian National champion wheat beer. A golden yellow, highly aromatic Weiss style of beer with excellent head and vanilla overtones. This is a classic Weizenbier, clear and bright until chilled, then cloudy but golden. As with all good Weizenbiers, it tends to be very frothy in the early stages of fermentation. When fermenting Golden Sheaf it is recommended that a fairly large fermentor be used to allow for the early stage frothing. Color in 23 liters ebc 5.5 - bitterness 20 IBU.[/FONT]
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To boil, or not to boil? What's better for a new guy? (that wheat beer looks really good - I love wheat beer.)
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Also, a secondary question: Is it possible to add fruit to either of these kits to add some flavour? (apricot, blueberry etc).
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Thanks!
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Kevin

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Hmm...I'd recommend neither. They both use prehopped liquid extract. So, if you want beer that tastes like beer, I'd look elsewhere.

Boiling is mandatory despite what any kit may tell you.

I would not add fruit to your first beer. When you go to the pub, do you order the fruit beer? I'd make something like what you order. Too many new brewers are tempted to try to make a Blueberry coffee mocha porter or something equally "creative". Make beer you want to drink. I'd try for a good Pale Ale if I were you. A Porter is even easier.

The problem with starting out with some wacky fruit beer is that you really can't guage success because you can't compare it to anything you've ever had before.

It's really not hard to find a recipe you like, buy the ingredients, and follow the recipe. The results will be MUCH better than a kit, and we're happy to help with any questions here.

I'd recommend using dry extract, whole hops and liquid yeast. Most kits use liquid extract, dry yeast and hop pellets.

Cheers :D
 
i would go with the first one, just because they provide you with some hops for dry hopping...im sure they have a wheat version available too.

i would not recomend adding fruit for your first batch, you might want to keep it simple untill you get comfortable, or familiar with the process. but you can of course if you want, just remeber to sanitize whatever you add.
 
I've got a lot to learn. I spoke with the fellow at the local brew supply shop on the phone, but he was an *******. I'll see if there is another brew shop nearby.
My father-in-law brewed beer 10 years ago, but he just got the kits above (or something similar).
I'll find a brew supply shop, and someone who can recommend a good brew for my first, and report back.

Friday I should be able to free up some time to do some looking around in person.

Thanks for the input, if there is any more, I'll take that too.

Kevin

Edit - if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to put together a shopping list, I'll take it with me into the store to see whats what. Back to reading!

Thanks again.
 
Tell you what, Kevin...let's figure it out in this thread. You like wheat beers, right? Like a good clean American wheat? Dark wheat? Describe the beer you want to make and we'll do a recipe right here. I'll point you to the ingredients too. Then you can go down to the LHBS and buy what you want without the need for the *******'s help.

Cheers :D
 
I love this place.

I'm especially fond of Edelweiss. (prefer dark)
bier2_0504.jpg


I'm not fussy though, I've loved all the wheat beer that I've tried, so don't be afraid to disappoint me - it won't happen. :D

Thanks Janx.
 
Hmm...I'm not familiar with those. It looks like they have a dark and a hefe and a clear one. Let's try something that'll get you in the wheat ballpark and we'll go from there. Ingredients have links to them so you can see what I'm talking about and order them if you want.

Ingredients:
6 pounds Wheat Dry Malt Extract
http://www.morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=16421

1 oz Hallertau (or any German hops - preferrably whole - you want something roughly 3% alpha acids)
http://www.morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=17696

Wheat yeast
http://www.morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=19830

That's a basic brew right there. Here's what you would do:
1) If you have a big enough pot, boil 6 gallons of water and add the malt extract. Be careful and turn down the heat as it will want to boil over. If you have a smaller pot, then boil with less water and bring up the volume in your fermenter.

2) Once boiling, add the hops. Boil for one hour.

3)Chill if you have a chiller. Otherwise, add to your fermenter and bring the volume up with water as necessary to 5 gallons. Chill it as quickly as possible.

4) Add yeast. Ideally, you would make a yeast starter ahead of time. Or, more easily, use dry yeast and just dump the pack in. Most people prefer the liquid flavor, but it can be a bit harder to work with.

5) Let it ferment 1 week.

6) Rack to secondary and let it sit 2 weeks at least.

7) Rack to bottling bucket. Add priming sugar. Bottle.

8) Wait a couple weeks and enjoy.

This recipe will make a very light, low bitterness wheat beer without a lot of complexity. It will have the banan-y, clovey wheat beer character if you use the yeast strain indicated. It won't have any hop nose or flowery hop flavor.

If you want to add more hop flavor, you would add another 1/2 oz-1oz of hops about 10 minutes from the end of the boil.

If you want a bit more complexity, you could steep some ground grains in the water as you raise the temp. Maybe 1/2 pound of Belgian aromatic or so.

Maybe some others will chime in, but obviously, you can make a wheat beer from "scratch" without a kit or too much fuss. The beer will be better than with pre-hoppped liquid extract too.

Let me know if you have any questions or if you want some different characteristics (like darker, maltier, more bitter, more hoppy finish). We can work in anything you like.

Cheers :D
 
Amazing. I'm going to go home now, and I've got to watch the kids, as SWMBO is going out to spend money. I'll try to check up on the site periodically.

Can't thank you enough Janx.

(The FIL is going to be very impressed!)

Kevin
 
I thought it was 'SHE Who Must Be Obeyed' - but I could be mistaken. Either way, it's funny. :D

Tomorrow I'm off to the big city, and I'm going to see what I can find for ingredients.

Thanks guys!

Kevin
 
Well, I just spent the last 1/2 hour calling every brew shop local to me.
The last one won me over. I'm going to spend an hour or so there tomorrow afternoon. The owner is really into all grain brewing, and has promised to steer me in the right direction. He mentioned that he may even start a new brew while I'm there. Sounds good, no more dealing with the ******* at The Brew Doctor. I'll try to report back tomorrow, but it likely won't be until later in the weekend.

Cheers!
 
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You know, it amazes me that some people in specialty shops treat customers like crap. I had a similar experience at a HBS and as a result, order much of my stuff online. I'm sure that MOST HBS owners and staff are passionate about the hobby and going the extra mile for the customer, but the few bad apples can really have an impact on future sales.



Sorry for the hijack :off:

Good luck with your first brew!
 
Kevin K said:
I thought it was 'SHE Who Must Be Obeyed' - but I could be mistaken. Either way, it's funny. :D

Tomorrow I'm off to the big city, and I'm going to see what I can find for ingredients.

Thanks guys!

Kevin

i stand corrected
 
Thanks for asking Darth Konvel!

Friday afternoon I spent about an hour at the only brew shop in the area (500 miles?) that actually stocks ingredients for all grain brewing. The owner is a great guy, and sure seems to know his stuff. He is a certified beer judge (whatever that means), and has been brewing for about 15 years. All grain for the last 4 or 5.

I told him everything I knew, what kind of beer I liked, what my goals were, my budget, and he made some suggestions.

He's got some 'intermediate level' brewing kits put together that I think I'll start out with. From what I can remember (information overload) the kit includes liquid malt extract (thick, like syrup - he buys this in a 55 gallon drum and re-packages it), hops, some milled malt, and yeast. There is some boiling involved. If I recall correctly, the instructions are similar to this;

Heat water, add extract.
Add malt, when boiling add hops.
At 55 minutes, add secondary hops.
At 60 minutes, remove hop socks, cool wort.
Strain and add to fermenter.
The rest is the same as the standard kits.

The way he explained it to me, is that there are 3 different types of brewing (that he offers). Canned kits. Intermediate kits. All grain.

I'm going to try out the intermediate kits. It sounds like the perfect mix of getting involved, and keeping it simple. Great for a beginner I think.

For what it's worth, the store is called Grape and Grain in Winnipeg. They are on St. Mary's Rd. If anyone wants more information, I'll be glad to share it. I'm not affiliated, I'm just extremely grateful for the help he's given me (without even making a sale at this point!).

So that is where I'm at. I learned a lot, got to see some cool home-made equipment, and found a great retailer that is willing to go the extra mile to help me get started. It was a great day. Hopefully next weekend I can get my first batch going.

Until then, I'm going to continue to read as much as I can here, and ask questions.

This site is great. :)

Kevin
 
What kind of grain did you end up getting to go with the extract? The only thing that I would change about your instructions would be to reverse the extract and malt (grains?) parts. You generally don't want to be boiling your grains.

I'd put your grains in a grain bag and put them in the water as you bring the temp up over 10-15 minutes (but not to a boil). After that, take out your grains, bring it up to a boil, remove the pot from the heat, add your extract and stir stir stir. Stir until you're sure it's all disolved and then stir some more :) Then back to the heat, bring to boil, looking out for hot break / boil over. Then it's time to start the timer and throw in your first addition of hops. Continue as planned.

I'm hoping I'm not muddling things up for you
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No you are not. That is exactly what he told me. Like I mentioned earlier, information overload. I can't remember what kind of grain he used. He has 8 different recipes that he's come up with for these 'intermediate' kits.

The one I was interested in was a brown ale of some sort. I'm getting pretty anxious to start this up!

Thanks for jogging my memory!

Kevin
 
Kevin K said:
I've got a lot to learn. I spoke with the fellow at the local brew supply shop on the phone, but he was an *******. I'll see if there is another brew shop nearby.
My father-in-law brewed beer 10 years ago, but he just got the kits above (or something similar).
I'll find a brew supply shop, and someone who can recommend a good brew for my first, and report back.

Friday I should be able to free up some time to do some looking around in person.

Thanks for the input, if there is any more, I'll take that too.

Kevin

Edit - if some of you more experienced guys would be willing to put together a shopping list, I'll take it with me into the store to see whats what. Back to reading!

Thanks again.

Find yourself a GOOD LHBS with a staff that is friendly - it will make a world of difference.

I just did my first All Grain batch after two years of doing extracts. Although I usually mail-order from the shop I do business with, I decided to drive out and get the ingredients for this batch.

Not only did the owner give me a few tips, he gave me his home phone number in case I had any questions on the process AFTER the store closed. Now that is good customer service!
 
Well, I was fairly set on a Brown Ale kit that the above mentioned HBS stocked, but I think I'd like to stick with a wheat. I love wheat beer, and it's what I usually drink, so I should probably start out with one.

Hopefully I'll have time to run down there tomorrow and grab some ingredients. Any other suggestions?
 
See if he may have a wheat kit packaged similar to the Brown you mentioned. Most LHBSs that do their own kits usually will. If so, I'd go with that. If not, tell him you've really got your heart set on a wheat and see if he can steer you in the right direction. The recipe Janx supplied will probably be pretty similar to any kit he may have. Bring it with you, just in case.
 
I've printed it out already, he doesn't have any pre-packaged wheat kits. I'm told they just don't sell around here. I must be one of the few smart ones left.

Does this pricing sound right? (I'll convert to US$/LB for you USAers.)

LME - $5.50 US/ 2.5LBS (6.99/1.2KG)
DME - $$4.79 US/1.1 LBS (5.99/500g)
 
That looks about right. My LHBS sells 3 lbs. of DME, or 3.3 lbs. LME for $10. Prices can vary a little.
 
Kevin, what you have got is what is called an extract batch with steeping grains. An excellent way to get your feet wet so to speak. What everyone here has said is correct in that you steep your grain in a grain bag at the start but don't let the temperture of the steep go over 160f before removing the grainbag. You can steep at this temperture for 30 minutes before removing the bag and continuing to boil.
You are doing the right thing by doing your research before brewing. If you read John Palmers on-line book http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html then I'm sure your brew what-ever-the-style will turn out great.
BTW, a secret to great beermaking is with the yeast and with fermenting at the correct tempertures. Choose a fresh pack of yeast for the style you are making and ferment at the temperture best suited for the yeast.
Also, I have made a great brew with the Barrons kit using S-23 dry yeast and the lager kit. It really don't require boiling, one of the few that truely don't.
Cheers and good luck, you'll be sparging within a year I predict.
 
Thanks for the kind words. I've skimmed as much of Palmers book as possible at this time, will try to complete it soon. I find it hard to read for too long online, I would prefer a real book. I'll order it from Paddock Wood soon.

I think I've got the basic procedure down, and most of the theory behind it. We'll see what I come home with tomorrow. :)
 
Kevin, if you want to jazz up your wheat beer and turn it into a wit beer, try grinding up an ounce of coriander seeds, an ounce of dried orange peel and a few black peppercorns and throwing it in 5 minutes before the end of the boil.
 
mysterio said:
Kevin, if you want to jazz up your wheat beer and turn it into a wit beer, try grinding up an ounce of coriander seeds, an ounce of dried orange peel and a few black peppercorns and throwing it in 5 minutes before the end of the boil.


Instead of the whole orange peel, I would just use an ounce of orange zest, and try to get as little as you can of the white part of the orange peel in it.
 
Kevin K said:
See post #16. I've found one that is willing to go the extra mile. Should be fun!

Speaking of going the extra mile, kudos to Janx for taking the time to write up his "brewing 101" primer. Every day I find a reason to be happy I found this forum, not the least of which is the willingness to be patient with all the noobies like me :D
 
skifast1 said:
Speaking of going the extra mile, kudos to Janx for taking the time to write up his "brewing 101" primer. Every day I find a reason to be happy I found this forum, not the least of which is the willingness to be patient with all the noobies like me :D
Amen. This place is great.
 
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