Need help w/ my BIAB Brew Set-Up

Before I haul off and purchase all of this I wanted to get feedback from y'all as to if I am missing any key things or things that aren't necessary. Here is my list to get my 3-5gal BIAB brewery going.

Mashing/Lautering:
Burner
S/S 10.5gal (42qt) Kettle
Thermometer
Mesh Bag
Immersion Wort Chiller
Pre-Chiller

Fermenting:
5gal primary x2 (ported? better bottles)
3gal 2ndary x2 (ported? better bottles)
Bungs x4
Airlocks x4
Blow-off assembly x2
Fermometers x4

Bottling:
Bottling Cane
Wing Capper

Cleaning & Sanitizing
PBW
STAR-san
Bottle Brush
Carboy Dryer

Various:
4ft hosing
Racking Cane (auto siphon)
Hydrometer and testing jar
Beer thief
Spoon/stirring utensil

EDIT: and a temp controller for my spare freezer

You could get by with a smaller kettle but you will learn to appreciate that larger size. Unless there is a huge price difference between that one and a smaller 8 gallon size, stick with the larger. I'd go with 6 1/2 gallon bucket fermenters as they can be used for smaller batches too but the smaller ones cannot be used for a larger batch. Unless you know a very good reason why you need to secondary, spend the money on another primary and forget about using a secondary. Instead of 4 fermometers (which I find hard to read most of the time) get a non-contact infrared digital thermometer. The price will likely be about the same and you may find the non-contact thermometer to be useful elsewhere. I have 2 bottle brushes and seldom use either of them. 4 feet of hose is not enough, get at least 6 feet. You can use a turkey baster to collect your hydrometer samples and put the leftover money toward more ingredients. I use the plastic tube the hydrometer comes in for a testing jar. It takes very little wort to get a sample. Make sure you buy 2 hydrometers because you will break one shortly.

Are you dealing with space issues here? Reason I ask is that you're purchasing a fair bit of equipment and it may be better to consider going "typical" all-grain, rather than a BIAB setup. You're really only talking about $150-$200 in additional equipment and in my opinion, will result in an easier, cleaner brewing experience. Personally, I think it's an important point to consider since your decisions about equipment may change if you're considering migrating to typical AG in the future. (i.e. 15 gallon pot, practical since you've added a burner to your shopping list.)

As for your fermenters, I think a 6.5 gallon and 5 gallon will be better setups. (You'll want room for fermentation to occur without loss of beer and might regret the smaller choices.) Strongly consider a bench capper, I find mine invaluable and easier to use. I find a bottle brush is unnecessary if using a PBW/Oxyclean soak for bottle cleaning. Add a jet bottle cleaner, you'll thank me later. A bottle tree is invaluable. You'll want containers for Oxy/StarSan, but you probably all ready have this. Kudos on the auto-siphon choice. You don't need a testing jar if using your hydrometer with a beer thief. You don't need a pre-chiller unless your tap water tends to be very warm (80+ degrees) and you might want to read up on the effectiveness of them, because I've seen mixed results. Think about how you're going to get water to/from the immersion chiller, there might be additional fittings involved and/or more hose involved. I use a 3' potable water hose attached to my kitchen sink (and the appropriate faucet to hose adapter, also necessary for a jet bottle washer) all the time for cleaning and conveniently filling.

Your keezer/fermentation chamber is a whole different topic, I'd hold off until you're ready to tackle that project.

I'm sure I've missed other things, but that's my opinion.

RM-MN said:

You could get by with a smaller kettle but you will learn to appreciate that larger size. Unless there is a huge price difference between that one and a smaller 8 gallon size, stick with the larger. I'd go with 6 1/2 gallon bucket fermenters as they can be used for smaller batches too but the smaller ones cannot be used for a larger batch. Unless you know a very good reason why you need to secondary, spend the money on another primary and forget about using a secondary. Instead of 4 fermometers (which I find hard to read most of the time) get a non-contact infrared digital thermometer. The price will likely be about the same and you may find the non-contact thermometer to be useful elsewhere. I have 2 bottle brushes and seldom use either of them. 4 feet of hose is not enough, get at least 6 feet. You can use a turkey baster to collect your hydrometer samples and put the leftover money toward more ingredients. I use the plastic tube the hydrometer comes in for a testing jar. It takes very little wort to get a sample. Make sure you buy 2 hydrometers because you will break one shortly.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the pointers, especially about the fermometers and non-contact thermometer! Can it be used to check the temps of my mash?

In terms of secondary fermenters: the reason I am planning on using them is for clarifying and for aging. I have dreams of doing big honkin' imperial IPAs and those can take time to really develop. Also I have read that the head space in the fermenter can be an issue.

For now I am planning on doing 3gal batches, thus the smaller fermenters. Would you suggest otherwise? Perhaps 2 6.5gal fermenter for 5gal batches and 2 5gal? I've always used my old roommate's glass carboys in the past and never buckets. He isn't around any more so just wondering if buckets have any downsides etc. I have a glass carboy laying around too but not sure on its size (can't remember)

Will add a second hydrometer and get rid of the thief. Gone is the bottle brush as I found a bottle blaster and the faucet adapter for about the cost of 4 bottle brushes.

The difference in price between an 8gal and 10.5gal kettle are negligible and if in the future I want to punch a weldless bulkhead I have a metal worker buddy that could do it for me (seeing I don't have the tools for it).

revco said:

Are you dealing with space issues here? Reason I ask is that you're purchasing a fair bit of equipment and it may be better to consider going "typical" all-grain, rather than a BIAB setup. You're really only talking about $150-$200 in additional equipment and in my opinion, will result in an easier, cleaner brewing experience. Personally, I think it's an important point to consider since your decisions about equipment may change if you're considering migrating to typical AG in the future. (i.e. 15 gallon pot, practical since you've added a burner to your shopping list.)

As for your fermenters, I think a 6.5 gallon and 5 gallon will be better setups. (You'll want room for fermentation to occur without loss of beer and might regret the smaller choices.) Strongly consider a bench capper, I find mine invaluable and easier to use. I find a bottle brush is unnecessary if using a PBW/Oxyclean soak for bottle cleaning. Add a jet bottle cleaner, you'll thank me later. A bottle tree is invaluable. You'll want containers for Oxy/StarSan, but you probably all ready have this. Kudos on the auto-siphon choice. You don't need a testing jar if using your hydrometer with a beer thief. You don't need a pre-chiller unless your tap water tends to be very warm (80+ degrees) and you might want to read up on the effectiveness of them, because I've seen mixed results. Think about how you're going to get water to/from the immersion chiller, there might be additional fittings involved and/or more hose involved. I use a 3' potable water hose attached to my kitchen sink (and the appropriate faucet to hose adapter, also necessary for a jet bottle washer) all the time for cleaning and conveniently filling.

Your keezer/fermentation chamber is a whole different topic, I'd hold off until you're ready to tackle that project.

I'm sure I've missed other things, but that's my opinion.

Click to expand...

Wow lots of info here! Not sure if I'll be making my purchase today or not! Thank you!

In terms of space:

I have storage space, but not a lot of physical space to brew in. I'm on a hill and have limited flat areas to brew on. My burner is purely because my electric element stove has no room under the fume hood to fit a kettle appropriate for BIAB or AG. (Old house, tiny stove)

The burner and kettle could be used to go to a "traditional" AG set up later if I gain more space in the future. Would probably go to a cooler mash/lauter tun and use the kettle for boils, then add a second kettle for hot liquor and go three tier.

I do live in Hawaii so depending on the time of day I am brewing at the water in to my chiller could be close to 80°F. My plans are to start at sunset though and hope that by the time I go to chill the water will have cooled sufficiently to reach yeast pitching temps.

The temp controller is a must with ambient temperatures peaking in the low-mid 80's as of lately and dropping to the high 60's at night, only to get warmer as summer rolls around. I do have a spare freezer so fermenting will be going on in there. The only way I can see around this is to only brew certain styles with yeasts that are meant for the warmer temperatures (saison for example).

I do BIAB and I love it. I decided to go that route because I didn't have enough space to have the mash/lauter tun, but I really enjoy the experience.

I was given a vegetable steamer insert for pots, but instead of using it for steaming vegi's I use it as a false bottom for my brew kettle/mash tun. That way, when you're heating the water, the steamer separates the bag from the bottom of the kettle and keeps the bag from getting burned. Then you don't have to lift and stir every time you heat up your mash. It saves a lot of work.

If you already have a chest freezer, the temperature controller is a no-brainer. Just do it. The best thing I ever did for my beer was fermentation temperature control.

If it is a chest freezer, you'll have a hard time getting glass carboys or better bottles in and out of it without some sort of carrying device. I'd consider using the buckets with handles to make that part of it easier.

BIAB is a great way to go, especially if you're short on space.
If you're OK with 2.5 or 3 gallon batches, your kettle size is fine, but if you are thinking about going bigger, get the bigger pot now. A keggle is a great alternative.
Like Uziyahu said, a steamer basket/kettle combination is ideal for BIAB.
I'm not sure what you meant by immersion chiller pre-chiller. And you listed it with the MLT supplies. To be clear, you use the immersion chiller after the boil only.
I like the S shaped air locks... they won't suck sanitizer back into the carboy.
Other than that, you look like you have it under control.

Uziyahu said:

I do BIAB and I love it. I decided to go that route because I didn't have enough space to have the mash/lauter tun, but I really enjoy the experience.

I was given a vegetable steamer insert for pots, but instead of using it for steaming vegi's I use it as a false bottom for my brew kettle/mash tun. That way, when you're heating the water, the steamer separates the bag from the bottom of the kettle and keeps the bag from getting burned. Then you don't have to lift and stir every time you heat up your mash. It saves a lot of work.

If you already have a chest freezer, the temperature controller is a no-brainer. Just do it. The best thing I ever did for my beer was fermentation temperature control.

If it is a chest freezer, you'll have a hard time getting glass carboys or better bottles in and out of it without some sort of carrying device. I'd consider using the buckets with handles to make that part of it easier.

Click to expand...

I have a steamer tray that should sit perfectly in the kettle I have been looking at! That should have been on my list of things! Thanks for the reminder! As my freezer is a standard free-standing freezer (aka: not a chest) the bottles or carboys should be no issue. I figure pull out the bottom shelf for the 6.5gal fermenter, and then use the second shelf for the 3gal fermenters.

acidrain said:

BIAB is a great way to go, especially if you're short on space.
If you're OK with 2.5 or 3 gallon batches, your kettle size is fine, but if you are thinking about going bigger, get the bigger pot now. A keggle is a great alternative.
Like Uziyahu said, a steamer basket/kettle combination is ideal for BIAB.
I'm not sure what you meant by immersion chiller pre-chiller. And you listed it with the MLT supplies. To be clear, you use the immersion chiller after the boil only.
I like the S shaped air locks... they won't suck sanitizer back into the carboy.
Other than that, you look like you have it under control.

Click to expand...

The pre chiller is just another immersion chiller that is going to go into a bucket of ice and feed into my wort chiller. I figure I'll use straight from the faucet to chill my wort to the tap water temp then drop the pre chiller in the ice bath to drop my wort even further. From what I have been reading here and else where this is a hit or miss method. Many Online Brew stores suggest a plate chiller (somewhat natural so you end up purchasing more), and don't use a pre-chiller. Some online also advocate that the plate chiller is the best way to go. Others online mention that the pre-chiller is in-fact an excellent way to get similar results to a counter-flow chiller, but you can never reach the efficiency of a plate chiller. Having used CFCs before I am tempted to go that route but only in the future as I don't have the money for building or purchasing a CFC.

Kettle Sizing: I have been doing some math (with the help of some calculators mind you) and for a five gal batch of BIAB, the 10.5gal kettle should work well so long as my grain bill isn't too huge. It seems like I should be able to do about an 18lb grain bill in a 10.5gal batch using BIAB. Is my math correct or am I wrong somewhere in my calculations?

Thanks for all the help and info to help me make my decisions wisely!

I have a 10.5 gallon kettle and used 20# in a grain bill recently. Very little space left and I did sparge 2 gallons through the grains once i pulled it. So yes it can be done but may be tricky.

Bottling bucket - I did not see one on there. IMO it is easier than a cane. About $15.
Bottling wand - inexpensive and makes bottling MUCH easier, even if you do not use a bottling bucket. (oh. never mind.)

I use 3/8" ID tubing. I wish I had all 1/2" ID tubing, canes, and wands. It has twice the flow area and makes for much faster transfer and bottle filling.

For the future, a valve on the kettle is a welcome addition. Might not matter with 3 gallon batches.

Sometimes you can get a bench capper on eBay for $30 or so. Wing cappers are OK. I went with the bench 'cuz I never, ever want to break a bottle and run my hand down onto the glass. I'm a weenie about that stuff. Either is good.

I use an 8 gallon pot for BIAB 5 gallon batches which is sometimes *interesting*, but it is possible so IMO a 42 qt pot is fine for 3 gal batches. Doing big beers with 20# grain bill, then yeah, 10 gal might be edgy. I do 11-13# of grain for 1.040-1.060 beers. And I don't start with the full amount of water - dunk sparge and makeup. Bigger is better, as long as it fits your space, heating capacity, and budget.

Get what you can. Brew what you can. Enjoy!

TNTgill said:

I have a 10.5 gallon kettle and used 20# in a grain bill recently. Very little space left and I did sparge 2 gallons through the grains once i pulled it. So yes it can be done but may be tricky.

Click to expand...

What batch size were you doing and what was your efficiency?

So I have decided to forgo the 5gal Better bottles ad get two 6.5gal buckets. In addition to this I have added a bottling bucket and spigot. I also removed the wing capper and am going for the super agata bench capper.

Total saving is about $80, which makes my temp controller an easy purchase to justify now!

All said and done its costing me about $730US for this set-up and my first 3gal batch.

So just before I pushed checkout online I went down to my basement and wanted to check my freezer to see what kind it was to make sure it would work with a temp controller.
To my demise the freezer isn't working anymore

Hawaiibboy said:

So just before I pushed checkout online I went down to my basement and wanted to check my freezer to see what kind it was to make sure it would work with a temp controller.
To my demise the freezer isn't working anymore

Click to expand...

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/search/?areaID=28&subAreaID=&query=chest+freezer&catAbb=sss

You got bunches of options!!

Looks like you got a good set up on the way.

woknblues said:

http://honolulu.craigslist.org/search/?areaID=28&subAreaID=&query=chest+freezer&catAbb=sss

You got bunches of options!!

Looks like you got a good set up on the way.

Click to expand...

I actually found one in Manoa and I live in Manoa! So now it's only a matter of bargaining and finding a means of transporting it to my location!

Best part is its from a home brewer, 45.5"x31"x36", and the poster says it can fit 5 6.5gal carboys plus 2 3gal carboys all at the same time!

Means I'll use my buckets and BB plus my left over glass carboy (apfelwein)

So if I do end up purchasing this freezer I found my total will come out to about $855. Be sure to stay tuned for a detailed expense report regarding this home brewery.

Attached is my expense sheet as a PDF

Total Cost is $812.00
Shipping Total $125.60

View attachment hawaiibboy's Brewery Costs Sheet1.pdf

Hawaiibboy said:

Attached is my expense sheet as a PDF

Total Cost is $812.00
Shipping Total $125.60

Click to expand...

Nicely done.

Hawaiibboy said:

What batch size were you doing and what was your efficiency?

Click to expand...

It was 7.5 gallons pre-boil ended with 5.75 in the fermenter. I got better than expected with the big batch. I don't have the exact numbers but I was shooting for OG of 1.085 for 5.5 gallons and ended with 1.093 at 5.75 gallons. I squeezed the heck out of the bag though. I remashed the grains after with a few leftovers and made another beer after that too.

TNTgill said:

It was 7.5 gallons pre-boil ended with 5.75 in the fermenter. I got better than expected with the big batch. I don't have the exact numbers but I was shooting for OG of 1.085 for 5.5 gallons and ended with 1.093 at 5.75 gallons. I squeezed the heck out of the bag though. I remashed the grains after with a few leftovers and made another beer after that too.

Click to expand...

Nice! My plans originally were to do most of my bigger beers (barley wine, Double Imperial IPAs etc) at the 3gal size because I could in theory just brew two times and blend the two. Now having heard your story I'm thinking go 5gal big brew then use the same grains again for a 3gal "small" beer.

Hawaiibboy said:

Wow lots of info here! Not sure if I'll be making my purchase today or not! Thank you!

In terms of space:

I have storage space, but not a lot of physical space to brew in. I'm on a hill and have limited flat areas to brew on. My burner is purely because my electric element stove has no room under the fume hood to fit a kettle appropriate for BIAB or AG. (Old house, tiny stove)

The burner and kettle could be used to go to a "traditional" AG set up later if I gain more space in the future. Would probably go to a cooler mash/lauter tun and use the kettle for boils, then add a second kettle for hot liquor and go three tier.

I do live in Hawaii so depending on the time of day I am brewing at the water in to my chiller could be close to 80°F. My plans are to start at sunset though and hope that by the time I go to chill the water will have cooled sufficiently to reach yeast pitching temps.

The temp controller is a must with ambient temperatures peaking in the low-mid 80's as of lately and dropping to the high 60's at night, only to get warmer as summer rolls around. I do have a spare freezer so fermenting will be going on in there. The only way I can see around this is to only brew certain styles with yeasts that are meant for the warmer temperatures (saison for example).

Click to expand...

If you're considering a desire to do 10G batches at some point, you'll be much better served with a 15 gallon vessel. After having bought, what, five kettles now...I can assure you, it's better to buy the right thing up front. Either way with BIAB or full all-grain, it's probably a point to think about. You can also do two coolers (one for the HLT, one for the MLT) and get away with a single boil kettle. It's certainly more convenient to have two kettles.

A 5G carboy will be good for 3 gallon batches, a 6.5 good for 5 gallon batches. Any smaller and you're likely to lose beer during fermentation. Do read up on pre-chillers, it may not be as effective as you want. It may be a better idea to use your IC to get it down to ~90 degrees and then an ice bath or your fermentation chamber to get below that.

Agreed you'll want to get your fermentation temps down, those temps are a little bit too hot. You can probably get away with a single stage controller, but may want to consider a dual stage if you ever anticipate needing to provide heat.

Also wanted to provide my input on two batches...you'll find out that brewing is a fair bit of work and you may not want to do this. It's far more convenient to do everything in a single batch. For me, moving to 10G batches was one of the best things I ever did...twice as much beer for barely any additional work.

With your beautiful weather, comes warm tap water. For something as small as a 3 gallon batch, you may find it easier just to set the kettle in a large tub of water, knock the heat down with just water, then add fresh water and ice...point being you can make chillers and prechillers and then small pumps to recirculate the chilled water, but at the end of the day it can be easier to just place the small batch in a tub of chilled water...just my "simple" approach.

revco said:

If you're considering a desire to do 10G batches at some point, you'll be much better served with a 15 gallon vessel. After having bought, what, five kettles now...I can assure you, it's better to buy the right thing up front. Either way with BIAB or full all-grain, it's probably a point to think about. You can also do two coolers (one for the HLT, one for the MLT) and get away with a single boil kettle. It's certainly more convenient to have two kettles.

A 5G carboy will be good for 3 gallon batches, a 6.5 good for 5 gallon batches. Any smaller and you're likely to lose beer during fermentation. Do read up on pre-chillers, it may not be as effective as you want. It may be a better idea to use your IC to get it down to ~90 degrees and then an ice bath or your fermentation chamber to get below that.

Agreed you'll want to get your fermentation temps down, those temps are a little bit too hot. You can probably get away with a single stage controller, but may want to consider a dual stage if you ever anticipate needing to provide heat.

Also wanted to provide my input on two batches...you'll find out that brewing is a fair bit of work and you may not want to do this. It's far more convenient to do everything in a single batch. For me, moving to 10G batches was one of the best things I ever did...twice as much beer for barely any additional work.

Click to expand...

Well for the foreseeable future I am not planning on doing anything over 5gals purely because I am not planning on consuming that much beer. Also, while the bag I am going to have made could potentially hold enough grain for a 10gal batch I am not looking to do 10gal batches until I can get my hands on some keggles. I used to do 10gal batches on a three tier keggle system and it was a breeze. With BIAB it might even be easier except for the lifting of the grain bag.

With the 10.5gal kettle I should be able to do 5gal brews in the 1.040-1.075 range. My 5gal batches would be my session beers mostly so this is definitely the correct size now. If wanted to throw a raging house party (which I have no desire to do) and provide all the beer in the form of home brew then the 10gal would be my choice.

For me it isn't going to be about the quantity I can brew in one brew day but the act of brewing. Smaller batches and less time to brew means more brew sessions. When I was doing 10gal brew days we only brewed once a month and had carry over for three months on our beers. I am planning on brewing at least twice a month if not more (fingers crossed). This way I'll have anywhere between 6-8gals in production a month with about a 6-8 12oz beers being drank a week that means I should be able to sustain my drinking with just home brew and still have friends over to enjoy a few too.

My 6.5gal fermenters will be for primary of both 3 & 5 gallon batches with my 3gal BB for secondary of my 3gal batches respectively. The bulk of the recipes I have accumulated wont have to go to secondary but in the future I may get a few 5gal BB for dry hopping and bigger (higher OG) brews if I ever make anything amazing that I want to scale to 5gal and try 5gal BIAB with.

I realize brewing is quite a bit of work and from what I have read most people can have a full BIAB batch done in 3-4 hours (including cleaning). That means on a day off I could get the boys to come over around 8-9am brew one, get it chilled then into a fermenter in my control environment have lunch and do another. While it may tire us greatly the fruit of our labor will be undoubtedly rewarded later.

Unfortunately for me, the pre chiller is going to be the easiest way. I don't have a bucket or a sink big enough for my kettle. Since I'll be brewing outside bringing the kettle into the house from down below, beside my partially above ground basement will be a royal PITA to get it into a tub.

I know a little about single stage temperature control systems but do you think you could tell me the applications of dual stage temperature control systems?

Thanks for all the great tips and pointers. Your's and everyone's opinions and knowledge here on HBT have been a big help as I put together a system that will work for me. I might be back for more help if I ever decide to upgrade or change the size of my brews. Until then I will probably just be asking a lot about my recipes that I have accumulated over 3 years of not brewing.

wilserbrewer said:

With your beautiful weather, comes warm tap water. For something as small as a 3 gallon batch, you may find it easier just to set the kettle in a large tub of water, knock the heat down with just water, then add fresh water and ice...point being you can make chillers and prechillers and then small pumps to recirculate the chilled water, but at the end of the day it can be easier to just place the small batch in a tub of chilled water...just my "simple" approach.

Click to expand...

The weather is great but it does put a kink in brewing operations at times. The 3gal batches could be cooled with an ice bath but it will be easier for me to use and IC and pre-chiller. I have a bucket that could fit a pre-chiller but not a kettle or carboy. I would go that route if I could though, trust me.

Hawaiibboy said:

I know a little about single stage temperature control systems but do you think you could tell me the applications of dual stage temperature control systems?

Click to expand...

Sounds like you've got things planned out, which is good. Much better than my "I wanna brew"...go buy stuff...realize the limitations...go buy more stuff...rinse, repeat! Maybe that's just brewing in general, though.

As for your question, a single stage is fine if you just need to cool things. You only need to control the compressor (on/off). But, if your ambient temperature gets below where you want to ferment, there's a chance that the overall freezer/fridge temp will drop below your desired levels. Simply turning off the compressor will prevent active chilling, but won't stop it from getting colder due to outside temps. For this reason, sometimes a dual stage is required, which will allow you to control your compressor and a heat source. (e.g. incandescent bulb, space heater, etc.) I'm not super familiar with Hawaii's year-round climate, but heat is probably much less of a concern there than it is where I live in Montana. You probably rarely see freezing, but if you see extended temps in the 40's-50's at night and you want to ferment at 62, it might be wise to go with a dual stage. Then again, if the freezer will be indoors where ambient temps are likely above that due to your house heating, then it's also not likely a concern. Bottom line, there's a wee bit of a premium to go dual-stage, but it gives you flexibility to deal with any conditions and can help you keep a precise temperature range, regardless of external factors.

Also, it's valid to consider chilling to pitching temps in your fermentation chamber. You can go from boil to IC down to 90ish, then go to fermenter and into your chamber. Let it cool to 70ish and then pitch. You just want to make sure you don't shock the fermenter with super hot wort. Although there are some risks with extending the non-fermenting time, it probably won't take forever especially if you drop your freezer down a bit more than you intend to ferment at. That would save you a trip to the tub. Maybe go with the pre-chiller and if it doesn't work well for you, try that.

revco said:

Also, it's valid to consider chilling to pitching temps in your fermentation chamber. You can go from boil to IC down to 90ish, then go to fermenter and into your chamber. Let it cool to 70ish and then pitch.

Click to expand...

I like this approach, eliminates the prechiller and ice and all that hubbub...I would just add to let it cool to 60ish rather than 70ish, ok mid to low 60ish.

Yea, funny, I doubt you need a dual stage ferm chamber in HI, leave that for the guys in MN, WI, and MI.

wilserbrewer said:

I like this approach, eliminates the prechiller and ice and all that hubbub...I would just add to let it cool to 60ish rather than 70ish, ok mid to low 60ish.

Yea, funny, I doubt you need a dual stage ferm chamber in HI, leave that for the guys in MN, WI, and MI.

Click to expand...

Hrm well I bought the copper for two chillers already so I might as well and it and try both methods! Lol. I'm just worried about getting down to temp fast enough.

Even when I was in Oregon we had to wrap heat blankets around carboys.

revco said:

Sounds like you've got things planned out, which is good. Much better than my "I wanna brew"...go buy stuff...realize the limitations...go buy more stuff...rinse, repeat! Maybe that's just brewing in general, though.

As for your question, a single stage is fine if you just need to cool things. You only need to control the compressor (on/off). But, if your ambient temperature gets below where you want to ferment, there's a chance that the overall freezer/fridge temp will drop below your desired levels. Simply turning off the compressor will prevent active chilling, but won't stop it from getting colder due to outside temps. For this reason, sometimes a dual stage is required, which will allow you to control your compressor and a heat source. (e.g. incandescent bulb, space heater, etc.) I'm not super familiar with Hawaii's year-round climate, but heat is probably much less of a concern there than it is where I live in Montana. You probably rarely see freezing, but if you see extended temps in the 40's-50's at night and you want to ferment at 62, it might be wise to go with a dual stage. Then again, if the freezer will be indoors where ambient temps are likely above that due to your house heating, then it's also not likely a concern. Bottom line, there's a wee bit of a premium to go dual-stage, but it gives you flexibility to deal with any conditions and can help you keep a precise temperature range, regardless of external factors.

Also, it's valid to consider chilling to pitching temps in your fermentation chamber. You can go from boil to IC down to 90ish, then go to fermenter and into your chamber. Let it cool to 70ish and then pitch. You just want to make sure you don't shock the fermenter with super hot wort. Although there are some risks with extending the non-fermenting time, it probably won't take forever especially if you drop your freezer down a bit more than you intend to ferment at. That would save you a trip to the tub. Maybe go with the pre-chiller and if it doesn't work well for you, try that.

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Three years if not brewing gets you thinking long and hard about it. So I really put some thought into it.

I'm liking that idea: gonna try it.

Sorry to be off-topic, but maybe it will help the OP too.

TNTgill said:

I have a 10.5 gallon kettle and used 20# in a grain bill recently. Very little space left and I did sparge 2 gallons through the grains once i pulled it. So yes it can be done but may be tricky.

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Can I ask how you lifted that and held it over the pot? I'm doing a 17 lbs grain bill using BIAB on Saturday - my first.

TNTgill said:

It was 7.5 gallons pre-boil ended with 5.75 in the fermenter. I got better than expected with the big batch. I don't have the exact numbers but I was shooting for OG of 1.085 for 5.5 gallons and ended with 1.093 at 5.75 gallons. I squeezed the heck out of the bag though. I remashed the grains after with a few leftovers and made another beer after that too.

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Really?! How have I never heard of this? Can you give me some more details? What types of beers? Thanks.

mtnagel said:

Sorry to be off-topic, but maybe it will help the OP too.Can I ask how you lifted that and held it over the pot? I'm doing a 17 lbs grain bill using BIAB on Saturday - my first.

Really?! How have I never heard of this? Can you give me some more details? What types of beers? Thanks.

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Well my brew buddy was over and helped lift it. I have a basket strainer so that helped support it while it drained some. I then moved it to a rubbermaid tote and used a lid from a smaller pot to squeeze the fire out of it and get 1 to 2 gallons of wort from it. The big beer was a DFH 90 clone. The little beer was an all citra something beer (I threw a couple more pounds of leftover grain on the bag and remashed). It was pale ale-ish. OG of 1.045 hopped with .5 oz of warrior for 60 mins and .5 oz of citra at 20 15 10 5 and flame out. Dry hopped with 1 oz of citra and 1 oz of amarillo.

mtnagel said:

Sorry to be off-topic, but maybe it will help the OP too.Can I ask how you lifted that and held it over the pot? I'm doing a 17 lbs grain bill using BIAB on Saturday - my first.

Really?! How have I never heard of this? Can you give me some more details? What types of beers? Thanks.

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TNTgill said:

Well my brew buddy was over and helped lift it. I have a basket strainer so that helped support it while it drained some. I then moved it to a rubbermaid tote and used a lid from a smaller pot to squeeze the fire out of it and get 1 to 2 gallons of wort from it. The big beer was a DFH 90 clone. The little beer was an all citra something beer (I threw a couple more pounds of leftover grain on the bag and remashed). It was pale ale-ish. OG of 1.045 hopped with .5 oz of warrior for 60 mins and .5 oz of citra at 20 15 10 5 and flame out. Dry hopped with 1 oz of citra and 1 oz of amarillo.

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If you also have a ladder you can use that to make a lift with two pulleys and a rope. Check out Alton Brown using it to fry turkey [ame]http://youtu.be/i9mq29BaLLk[/ame]

TNTgill said:

Well my brew buddy was over and helped lift it. I have a basket strainer so that helped support it while it drained some. I then moved it to a rubbermaid tote and used a lid from a smaller pot to squeeze the fire out of it and get 1 to 2 gallons of wort from it. The big beer was a DFH 90 clone. The little beer was an all citra something beer (I threw a couple more pounds of leftover grain on the bag and remashed). It was pale ale-ish. OG of 1.045 hopped with .5 oz of warrior for 60 mins and .5 oz of citra at 20 15 10 5 and flame out. Dry hopped with 1 oz of citra and 1 oz of amarillo.

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I do think a basket strainer would help. And thanks for letting me know about remashing the grains. I have no idea you could do that. Very cool idea.

Hawaiibboy said:

If you also have a ladder you can use that to make a lift with two pulleys and a rope. Check out Alton Brown using it to fry turkey

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Thanks, I have seen that and may do that eventually.

Hawaiibboy said:

The weather is great but it does put a kink in brewing operations at times. The 3gal batches could be cooled with an ice bath but it will be easier for me to use and IC and pre-chiller. I have a bucket that could fit a pre-chiller but not a kettle or carboy. I would go that route if I could though, trust me.

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For the cost of the prechiller, you can get a small electric sump pump to recirc ice water through your immersion chiller. Use tap water with your IC to knock the temp down to around 140-120 fairly quick. Then swap to the pump recirc of ice water into a bucket or ice chest to rapidly drop to pitch temps.

ThatGeekGuy said:

For the cost of the prechiller, you can get a small electric sump pump to recirc ice water through your immersion chiller. Use tap water with your IC to knock the temp down to around 140-120 fairly quick. Then swap to the pump recirc of ice water into a bucket or ice chest to rapidly drop to pitch temps.

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Well I have bought the copper already for my chillers only cost me about 50 for enough copper to make both the pre chiller and the IC. Enough for just the IC would have been 30. Are pumps that cheap?

Hawaiibboy said:

Are pumps that cheap?

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Slippery slope bro...I tried to sell you an $8 dollar tub and some ice for those small batches.... cheers!

wilserbrewer said:

Slippery slope bro...I tried to sell you an $8 dollar tub and some ice for those small batches.... cheers!

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There will always be a way that is less expensive but in my experience, even with small batches (around 3gal) it can be difficult to drop the temp down to pitching temp with just an ice bath.

My goal is under 40minutes. My buddy has been having issues just dropping to 100° in an hour using a 8gal kettle and ice baths for 3gal batches.

I just didn't know pumps were so inexpensive.

It will definitely be trial and error for me, but that's half the fun of home brewing!

Yes I agree, ice baths will take a bit longer, but it is more like passive chilling rather than babysitting chillers, pumps etc...better IMO to set and forget for 60 minutes than to work for forty...YMMV...cheers!

wilserbrewer said:

Yes I agree, ice baths will take a bit longer, but it is more like passive chilling rather than babysitting chillers, pumps etc...better IMO to set and forget for 60 minutes than to work for forty...YMMV...cheers!

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That can be a nice thing at times, especially when drunk! Lol

So I surveyed my property grounds and found quite a bit of space that would be perfectly suited for even a three tier system!



This shall be the site of my brewery!

So I have had 2 hiccups in my set-up:

1) the person from CL i was going to get a chest freezer from stopped communicating with me. It would have been difficult for me to transport the freezer given its size and the fact that I don't have a truck, but luckily I picked up a small chest freezer from lowes on sale with FREE delivery.

2) My temperature controller might not show up in time for me to brew on my one day off this week.

I have planned my inaugural brew day to be this coming up Thursday, going to be having some guys over that haven't brewed before to see how it goes down and how easy it is to make beer.

So my question is:

Given the warm temps in Hawaii and the fact that I won't have a temp controller for my freezer should I brew on Thursday anyway and pitch on Friday when my temp controller shows up? Pitch Thursday and hope my fermentation doesn't go crazy off due to high temps? Just wait and postpone the inaugural brewday?

Instead of 2 immersion chillers get a plate chiller or counter flow chiller. Much less water used!

Edit : Just saw you have the copper already, look up counter flow chiller in the DIY section.

Either wait to brew until u have the temp controller set up or use a swamp cooler set up in the meantime.

Or brew straight away and use the no-chill method!

Been BIAB in a 40l (10gal) electric urn & no chilling for 3 years never had a bad batch... Well except the mocha chilli stout I thought would be cool but wasn't.