Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

i know it cant support he bitterness, but i have been thinking it oculd be good with a really nice hop nose that could complement the apple, i might try it on the next batch

Just finished brewing this. I had an OG of 1.060. I pitched US-05 at 62 degrees after hydrating in water. I used .5 oz cascade hops (5.5% AA) and .5 pounds crystal 120, because I used a cheapo apple juice.

I put 4 gallons into my 5 gallon glass carboy, and 1 gallon into a 2 gallon bucket. I'm planning on adding a couple cinnamon sticks to the one gallon batch after about 2 weeks, and leaving it for 1 week. I *may* put a bit of nutmeg or allspice too, but probably not.

you did the blowoff and split it?

sweetpoetatoe said:

you did the blowoff and split it?

Click to expand...

Yeah. I realize I probably didn't have to use the blow off, but I had the assembly ready and on hand. :cross: Ya never know.

Any suggestions on the spice addition for the 1 gallon test batch? Anyone try spicing the graff with good/bad results.

I'm amazed that the wort is holding at 66 degrees in my 75 degree room. I put a wet shirt over it, so maybe that's helping.

if you put it in a little thing of water an wrap the shirt so its touchin in th wate a little, itll wick it an keep it wet too

sweetpoetatoe said:

if you put it in a little thing of water an wrap the shirt so its touchin in th wate a little, itll wick it an keep it wet too

Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't have time to rig up a swamp cooler yet. If the temp gets too high I'll probably do it today while I bottle my mild ale.

How many Volumes of CO2 are you using for this? Or how much sugar?

Thanks.

So, rather than make a new thread, does anyone know what happened to Brandon? He hasn't had activity on this site for over a year.

onipar said:

How many Volumes of CO2 are you using for this? Or how much sugar?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I treated it like a weisbeir. I think it wound up being ~.25 lbs of sugar. I can look it up in my log when I get home.

The_Broodwich said:

I treated it like a weisbeir. I think it wound up being ~.25 lbs of sugar. I can look it up in my log when I get home.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I appreciate it! When I checked the Priming Calculator, they had cider down for 2.25 volumes of CO2 (I think), but I wasn't sure if I should treat this as a normal cider in terms of carbonation or not.

just ordered the ingredients to make this

apfelwein is already fermenting, I figured I had better make this too!

Hey everyone- first post!

I'll be giving the graff a try next week. I skipped the hops and wheat, plus I'll be using 80L crystal and 2.5 lbs pilsner LME.

Hey pianoguitar, welcome!

I understand after reading this whole thread why you might want to skip the hops, but I find that they really go a long way in balancing out this recipe. I think it's one of the reasons why this cider doesn't require at lot of ageing before its good. It's also what gives it the unique beer/cider hybrid flavour that most people enjoy.

The wheat is just for head retention and doesn't change the taste, but you might want try it with hops...I use .5 oz fuggle for 5 gal and it's perfect.

Obviously, it's your call

Enjoy!

+1 on the hops, I used the called for ammount, but at half the strength since im still learning to understand the value of hops. I have noticed that to really get a good flavor I have to put about 1/2 of a pellet in the bottom of the glass before I pour. Next time ill be using the sugested hops.

Thanks for the input! I'll give a half oz. of fuggle or willamette a try, maybe pick up some torrified wheat too.

Sorry to ask the question again (especially if it's been answered already) but how is everyone carbing this Graff? Either by volumes of CO2 or by amount of sugar is fine, I'm just trying to get a handle on what the best carb level is for this.

The tastybrew.com bottle priming calculator lists ciders as 1-3.5 volumes of CO2, with 2.25 if you select it from the drop down.

If anything I guess I'll shoot for 2.25. That about right?

I just bottled mine a couple weeks ago and used Coopers carb drops (1 per standard beer bottle). Cracked one open last weekend and they seem to be carbing nicely.

Cozmcphish said:

I just bottled mine a couple weeks ago and used Coopers carb drops (1 per standard beer bottle). Cracked one open last weekend and they seem to be carbing nicely.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I found this said about the carb drops: "They are supposedly designed to give you approximately 2-2.5 volumes of CO2 in a 12 oz bottle when conditioned at room temperature."

So that sounds to be right about where I was shooting for.

Putting a batch on today using a cider malt blend kit and burnt honey for a "toffee graff." will let you know how it goes

edit - small update.

I basically wanted to use a cider kit up that I had going spare, it's a Samson's West Country Cider with added shelf dust kit and contains Malt Extract and Apple Concentrate. As cider kits have always been so disappointing in my experience (I just dumped a 5 gallon batch of Elderflower Cider because it was crap, not because it went wrong) I tried a different method of basically burning the honey first, then adding in the wheat and boiling this with some water and the hops which were some left over hallertau's, very low AA at 2.5% so I used the recommended maximum. After that I blended the kit with this mixture in the brewing bucket, and I'm gonna ferment with Safale.

OG is a low 1.032 but that should leave me at around 4%, which is nice for a beer/cider imo. Faster fermenting too, so meh

Also bought some Heading Powder to add to the keg, for some extra body hopefully. Might add some DME in at some point.

This is a 3 gal batch, so let's see how it goes!

I made my 5 gallon batch of graff last night (finishing around 2AM). Thanks to doctorwho and dover for suggesting to use the hops and wheat. OG was around 1.057 or 1.058. I've seen some very slow bubbling today with the primary in the mid 60's. I'm looking forward to trying my first cider- though I do miss the strong smell of hops coming out of the airlock.

Started my second batch of this last week. I was thinking about racking off a gallon after fermentation was done and adding some spices to it. I was thinking cinnamon stick, allspice, nutmeg, and maybe a clove. Does anyone here have any experience with any of these spices in this Graff? If so, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

MrOrange said:

Started my second batch of this last week. I was thinking about racking off a gallon after fermentation was done and adding some spices to it. I was thinking cinnamon stick, allspice, nutmeg, and maybe a clove. Does anyone here have any experience with any of these spices in this Graff? If so, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Click to expand...

Hey, I've been cataloging my experience with a 1 gallon spiced test batch in this thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/spicing-graff-255199/

If you read through, you'll see I list how much I use, tasting notes, etc. The only thing is, this is my first time doing it, and I won't be bottling till this weekend. I'll post more tasting notes on bottling day about how it tastes coming out of the primary.

Currently it's been "spiced" in the bucket for less than a week.

Ok, I have spent the past 3 days reading through just about every post in this Graff thread. I think it will be close to what I am looking for but have a question. Has anyone added in cinnamon & nutmeg for an apple pie flavor? I saw this asked a couple times but never any answers. Would I want to add the spices in at the boil or in the fermentation?

GeoGirl said:

Ok, I have spent the past 3 days reading through just about every post in this Graff thread. I think it will be close to what I am looking for but have a question. Has anyone added in cinnamon & nutmeg for an apple pie flavor? I saw this asked a couple times but never any answers. Would I want to add the spices in at the boil or in the fermentation?

Click to expand...

See my post above yours.

I wouldn't necessarily say I was going for "apple pie," but I'm sure it'll come out something like that. I put my spices into primary because it's a 1 gallon test batch, and I wanted the other 4 gallons to be the regular recipe.

Check out the thread I posted.

onipar said:

See my post above yours.

I wouldn't necessarily say I was going for "apple pie," but I'm sure it'll come out something like that. I put my spices into primary because it's a 1 gallon test batch, and I wanted the other 4 gallons to be the regular recipe.

Check out the thread I posted.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I just checked that out. Thinking that this might be the weekend for me to do some experimenting

GeoGirl said:

Thanks! I just checked that out. Thinking that this might be the weekend for me to do some experimenting

Click to expand...

Cool! Be sure to let me know what you do and how it works out. You can post it in the "spicing a graff" thread. I'm particularly excited to see how my vanilla sugar "bottle primer" works out.

I've made a few batches of this stuff by now and have to say I was never very happy with it. Honestly, over time it seems most cider becomes quite acidic if a malo-lactic fermentation never takes place. All that malic acid makes for a pretty unpalatable beverage in my experience. I suppose if you make this stuff, ferment it quickly, fine it quickly, keg it quickly, ( NOT BOTTLE CONDITIONING), and drink it quickly it could be great. but that's all I can see....this seems like a drink that should made and drank quickly, it doesn't seem to age well. take it for what it's worth.

BootsyFlanootsy said:

this seems like a drink that should made and drank quickly, it doesn't seem to age well. take it for what it's worth.

Click to expand...

Thats odd. the last batch I made didn't seem to really start tasting good until like 2 months after bottling IMO

MrOrange said:

Thats odd. the last batch I made didn't seem to really start tasting good until like 2 months after bottling IMO

Click to expand...

I agree. Mine was best after about 4 months.

I have some 16oz bottles sitting around that are damned near a year old and they just taste like super dry, tart, acidic champagne made out of apple juice. I always used the best top notch cider I could get my hands on, and yes, it was pasteurized. The last batch I used the West Yorkshire, ( Timothy Taylor), yeast. Still wound up at 0.990. I'd love to try a bottle of this from someone who says it doesn't wind up all chalky, dry and tart though.

BootsyFlanootsy said:

I have some 16oz bottles sitting around that are damned near a year old and they just taste like super dry, tart, acidic champagne made out of apple juice. I always used the best top notch cider I could get my hands on, and yes, it was pasteurized. The last batch I used the West Yorkshire, ( Timothy Taylor), yeast. Still wound up at 0.990. I'd love to try a bottle of this from someone who says it doesn't wind up all chalky, dry and tart though.

Click to expand...

How many batches have you made, and what other yeast have you used?

I've only just made my first batch, and it isn't even bottled yet (so i can't comment on how well it ages), but I will say I used US-05 yeast and my main batch finished at 1.006, while my 1 gallon test batch finished at 1.002. Not quite as dry as yours.

Only time will tell how it comes out for me, but I am disappointed to hear it may not age well, because I don't think we will be drinking this all that fast.

mabye they aged past their prime? I've found my bottles made with cheap juice, crystal 120, and nottingham or S-04 or 05 yeast to age quite gracefully, and peak around 4 months, but anytime after theyre carbonated theyve been perfect.
I wouldnt lose hope, i burned through my first batch and had to save and hide bottles to prevent anyone(including myself) from cutting its aging short

I just cracked open a bottle yesterday after it hit the 4 week mark of bottle conditioning and I do have to say it has gotten a bit better than the bottle I cracked open after week one. I noticed it had just a tad bit more initial apple taste than the first bottle, but the back end still has a dry, watery, unpleasing, spicy hop bite. I'm hoping another month or two will round this out, but what I can say is that they are already better than the Edwort's Apfelwein I bottled 2 months prior (think I'm gonna wait a year on those).

I used Mott's for both recipes, wondering if that could be the cause of the excessive dryness of both.

Here's the label I came up with as well. Cheers!

Whoa, cool label! :rockin:

i still like the clint eastwood label

I am going to brew up my first batch of this tonight wish me luck I am following the recipe with the exception of the torrified wheat lbh was out of it

angrymeat said:

I am going to brew up my first batch of this tonight wish me luck I am following the recipe with the exception of the torrified wheat lbh was out of it

Click to expand...

Good luck! It's a nice, easy brew day. I usually brew with my brother and this one I did alone, and it was a piece of cake. We're bottling it tomorrow.

I have seen people post about making spice teas for this but I haven't seen them post about how they turned out I was thinking of doing the same for a nice fall graff but would like to see some feedback on how it worked for everyone.

Just got my first batch of GRAFF into the carboy. Pretty relaxing brew day. Wanted to also brew a Punkin' Ale today, but don't have time.

I'm anxious to see how this turns out. My OG was 1.060.


UPDATE: 30 minutes after pitch, already bubbling!

KCBigDog said:

Just got my first batch of GRAFF into the carboy. Pretty relaxing brew day. Wanted to also brew a Punkin' Ale today, but don't have time.

I'm anxious to see how this turns out. My OG was 1.060.


UPDATE: 30 minutes after pitch, already bubbling!

Click to expand...

nice what yeast did you use?