Why all grain?

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Weizer

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I'm still new to brewing, and I'm just doing extract brewing at the moment..but why all grain? My friend said you get a higher yield from extract, and I can have my LHBS mill the grain and make a dme of exactly what I want at no extra cost.(EX 6 lbs wheat, 1 lb dark)

Is it it more fun, challenging, etc? Just looking for a reason to buy all grain equipment, I guess.
 
My big ones are cheaper (once amortized), more control on the process, ingredients, fermentability, and just plain more fun. Downsides are longer brew days and more equipment to clean.
 
I would say it is more fun and challenging. I do it because I can exercise more control over the process.
 
Going all grain gives you complete control over the beer. Once you have the equipment it is cheaper. I have only done one batch using extract and decided that I wanted to go all grain. It is not that expensive to get the equipment I built most of mine myself. I do know that buying grain is much cheaper than buying extract and I control the color, the amount of fermentable and non-fermentables. In my opinion all grain is just plain fun!
 
There's nothing wrong with extract brewing, I did it for years. However, all grain gives you control over factors that you don't have control with using extracts. Want a beer with more body? Mash at a higher temp. Want a beer with less body? Mash at a lower temp. Want your base grains to be based on region specific malts? There are all kinds of things you can do differently by going all grain.

After accounting for equipment, it is much cheaper. I typically use 9 lbs of base grain in a recipe, and I'm paying ~64 cents per pound. So, my base grain is running me $6 per batch. The equivalent in DME is ~6 lbs, which runs $4 per pound, so that's $24, or 4X what I paid. If you brew frequently, the equipment pays for itself.
 
When I started I went directly to all-grain. Not sure I would recommend that today. The all-grain/extract choice is about how you make wort, or extract. And that's not the most important choice you'll make if you're interested in brewing better beer. If you have satisfied yourself that you're doing all you can do on the cold side with pitching rate, fermentation temp control and aeration then and only then would I recommend the relative distraction of all grain. I love my all-grain process and I get reliable, consistent extract yields. But I'd give up my mash tun long before I'd give up my chest freezer and controller, my oxygen kit or my starters. Build knowledge and control of the fermentation process before going all grain. I know I'm assuming you haven't done all this. If you have, pardon me. Go for it.
 
Wow a LHBS that cooks their own extract in-house?

your LHBS can make custom DME!??!?

Yup, that's why I'm kinda debating whether or not I would even want to do all grain. Based on what everyone is saying, I will probably do it once I have money rolling in(I just moved and it took me 3 months to find a job =/ ) Just because I love a challenge, and everyone is saying you have more control...which I like.

The only thing I really do like about extract is that I know the exact outcome every time..There is little to no chance my beer will taste different if I put the exact amount of extract/hops/additives in each time. I've done 2 batches of "my own recipe" and they turned out exactly the same. I don't know if that means extract truly is impossible to mess up, or if I have a talent haha.

I appreciate everyone's input, and I'd love to hear more :)
 
There’s a reason Grandma’s made-from-scratch chocolate chip cookies tasted better than the slice-and-bake from the mega grocery store.

Plus there’s something more, I don’t know…brewery-authentic, about customizing a recipe then measuring, crushing and mashing malted barley in the same fashion the breweries do, instead of opening a can of syrup or bag of powder.
 
Extract is a great way to learn the hobby and makes great beer. But, the malt character and fermentability will always be the same. With all grain, you have a bunch of different malts to choose from and you can really customize the wort profile.

Plus it's way cheaper.
 
I think what the OP means about "custom" DME/LME is that they can mix it in custom blends, not cook it down in house, dehydrate it etc. At AHS for instance they have a lot of 55 gal drums with different extracts that the end up blending together as per recipe.

If they do in fact cook their own thats pretty stellar. Still can't be done on the fly per order though.

And to answer the question, its a matter of control when it comes down to it. Extracts/partials can win competitions (and have). For me I love the process of things and tweaking things here and there.
 
my guess is the OP is incorrect in saying that they can cook their own up, but if they did that for free, then there would really be no advantage to doing it yourself. you could tell them how fermentable you want it, could get any grain into an extract etc.

i've done all grain batches (BIAB) and extract. personally i see no reason to do just extract with steeping grains. if you are going to be steeping grains for a while, you might as well just mash some too.

DME is supposively much better than LME as well. i haven't really noticed too too much of a difference, but i have only used LME once or twice
 
Cost can be a factor too. My last few batches have been running me around 0.25 a pint. I used to do extract and was making good beer, but I found with all grain I was really able to produce exactly what I wanted. I also found that the final products were a lot better once I refined my process after the first couple batches.

Its also not much extra effort when compared to extract. If you can read a thermometer and boil water you can make all grain beers. It does tack on an extra 60+ minutes to the brew day, but you do not need to babysit a mash like you do a boil. I usually go tackle some other tasks during the mash.
 
I'm still new to brewing, and I'm just doing extract brewing at the moment..but why all grain? My friend said you get a higher yield from extract, and I can have my LHBS mill the speciality steeping grain and make a custom mix of different types of dme of exactly what I want at no extra cost.(EX 6 lbs wheat, 1 lb dark)

Is it it more fun, challenging, etc? Just looking for a reason to buy all grain equipment, I guess.


I believe the edits above reflect what the OP really meant? :confused:
 
I wasn't incorrect, my LHBS makes their own LME and DME..

Thanks for the input everyone, the cost thing is huge...I didn't realize all grain was that much cheaper. Considering I just spent about 40 bucks on my last batch..it seemed like an expensive hobby. Definitely gonna jump into all grain in the next month or so.

Thanks guys!
 
I still highly doubt that the LHBS makes the DME. They'd have to have a lot of money invested in equipment to do that.
 
Well, why would they lie about something like that? They also have a bar/restaurant down stairs..and over 500 different bottles of beer to choose from up stairs in the coolers. It's not a small establishment.
 
Just to give a minority opinion... I've done about 40 batches all told, and went to all-grain after doing just 3 extract brews because I'm extremely cost conscious and wanted to brew from scratch, like the pros. I acquired all the gear, learned the technique, and made about 20 all grain batches but I recently went back to extract and plan to stay with extract for the time being.

The three main reasons are: 1) easily repeatable results, 2)less time, 3)less effort

Sure, you can probably brew all-grain for about one-half to two-thirds of the cost of extract, if you are only factoring in ingredients (and buy in bulk), but it will probably take several years to save enough to pay off the cost of the gear, especially if you buy a good mill.

If you buy hops in bulk, wash and re-use your yeast, use tap water, and don't pay shipping on extract, you can still brew fairly cheaply. Most of my batches run me about $25.
 
I typically use 9 lbs of base grain in a recipe, and I'm paying ~64 cents per pound.

:boggle:

Sixty-four cents? How are you getting that low? I assume group bulk buys, but that's about half the price (or less) I'm seeing for full sacks.

Here I thought I was doing well at c. $1.40/lb.
 
It seems everyone has mentioned cost and control over what you are making but only biermuncher mentioned quality. I'm not trying to stir up the all grain vs extract debate.............. You can make great brews with both. One of my best batches ever was an extract batch. The end product with all grain will ultimately be a better quality product due to the fact you are starting with fresher ingredients.

The difference is extremely noticeable. I liken it to making marinara sauce with fresh homegrown tomatoes that were vine ripened vs starting with generic canned tomato paste. The fresh will always taste better than the one made with a canned paste. Why? Due to the use of fresh quality tomatoes. Extract vs All grain? Canned condensed or dried preserved condensed wort (extract) vs freshly extracted from the grain. Which is going to be a fresher product giving you the greatest chance of producing the best product you can possibly produce? Speaking from experience all grain wins in this category and why I made the switch to all grain and only look back when I want quick and easy.
 
One of my best batches ever was an extract batch. The end product with all grain will ultimately be a better quality product due to the fact you are starting with fresher ingredients.

Disregarding the apparent contradiction in these two sentences (I know what you mean, and appreciate the admission that you can make great beer with extract), this is also assuming everything else is equal.

Personally, I found the large number of variables inherent to all grain (water chemistry, pH, mash temp, mash time, grain crush, chill time, just to name a few) led to a very large range in the quality of my product, no matter how careful and attentive I was. The end result (again, in my case) was significantly more labor for lesser beers. My hat is off to people who can control those variables to the degree that they get stellar results every time, as I am not one of them. At least not yet.

Disclaimer: my LHBS sells very fresh extract, in bulk. If I had to order extract by mail, use old product, or pay name-brand prices for it, there would be no way I'd use it.
 
  1. Cost. It saves me about $20 per 5g batch. That translates to about $500 per year.
  2. Tweekability. I have much more control over AG than extract.
  3. Time. Brewing is a hobby. The more time I spend doing it, the happier I am.
  4. He who dies with the most tools wins. Why stick with extract?
-a.
 
Well, why would they lie about something like that? They also have a bar/restaurant down stairs..and over 500 different bottles of beer to choose from up stairs in the coolers. It's not a small establishment.

what is this place called?
 
I wasn't incorrect, my LHBS makes their own LME and DME..

Thanks for the input everyone, the cost thing is huge...I didn't realize all grain was that much cheaper. Considering I just spent about 40 bucks on my last batch..it seemed like an expensive hobby. Definitely gonna jump into all grain in the next month or so.

Thanks guys!

My apologies for the assumption.
 
Not a clue..

If you do not know what kind of malt goes in to dark DME how is your LHBS making the DME?

If you selected what kind of grain goes into a DME and then the LHBS makes it, I would think that you would know what kind of grain is going into it.

Is this what is happening, you ask the LHBS to make you DME with say 6 lbs of wheat and 1 lb of dark?

You know what is happening right? The LHBS is mixing 6 lbs of wheat DME with 1 lb of dark DME.
 
what is this place called?

+1. If they are indeed manufacturing their own custom extracts (regardless of price), better buy some shares of the company because they are about to become the coolest kids on the block.
 
:boggle:

Sixty-four cents? How are you getting that low? I assume group bulk buys, but that's about half the price (or less) I'm seeing for full sacks.

Here I thought I was doing well at c. $1.40/lb.

Yep, bulk buys. Paying about $35 a sack.
 
I find it funny when I hear AG brewers say " because we have so much control". And then how MOST AG brewers completely disregard their water profile or skipping steps and making inferior beer then an extract brewer doing everything right?

IN THEORY AG can make a better beer but in practice I'm not seeing it. 20% of gold medal winners, according to BYO are Extract brewers.

Now I know AG brewers will get all upset because they feel they are superior to extract brewers but seriously, it all comes down to how good of a brewer you are, not how good your equipment is.

Sloppy AG and sloppy extract brewers make sloppy beer. I feel too many AG brewers think they make better beer JUST BECAUSE it's AG,

BTW. It's not hard to know what is in your extract. AHS uses Breiss who list all the malts they use in their LME
 
motobrewer said:
lol! clearly, you aren't seeing the 80% that are AG.

:rolleyes:

For true statistical value, you must know the ratio of extract : all grain for ALL entries, which Id actually love to know :)
 
what is this place called?

It's called The Brew Shop(simple enough right? haha) in Bend, Oregon. You can google it and it's the first thing that pops up. Pretty awesome place. Just before I started going there they had Pliny the Elder on tap too!

My apologies for the assumption.

Nah it's all good, I was in awe when he told me honestly. I went to get my first corny keg from there and I asked how many he had..and he said they have around 140..at 40 bucks a piece. Looking at the classifieds on the forum and how wanted they are, I didn't think they were pullin my leg about anything.

I am a noob after all, I don't blame ya ;)
 
Just quoting BYO magazine. I do not know where they get their numbers but most competitions post the recipes of winners.

I would like to know the percentage of extract brewers that enter competitions. Probably a higher percentage of winners in extract brewers since I would think most entries in competitions are AG
 
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