First all grain and PH

Hey guys,

Going to be brewing my first AG soon. I use bottled spring water (Crystal Springs in Florida). Is there anything that I should be worried about with the PH level of the mash? I looked at the water report and it stated a PH of 7 - 8.5 I believe? Don't have that in front of me right now. The beer is going to be a pale ale about 1.052 OG.

What are your thoughts?

BreezyBrew said:

Hey guys,

Going to be brewing my first AG soon. I use bottled spring water (Crystal Springs in Florida). Is there anything that I should be worried about with the PH level of the mash? I looked at the water report and it stated a PH of 7 - 8.5 I believe? Don't have that in front of me right now. The beer is going to be a pale ale about 1.052 OG.

What are your thoughts?

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Yes, pH could be an issue. It's not the pH of the water that affects the pH of the mash, though- it's the alkalinity of the water. Most mashes (even with RO water) are a bit on the high pH side, unless using lots and lots of dark malts.

It would be helpful if you could find out the make up of the spring water, but it may just be easier to buy RO water instead of spring water and add a teaspoon of calcium chloride (following the "water primer" sticky in the brew science forum).

There would be more salts that will need to be added if using just RO water.

Unless the water is off the charts in one direction or the other, you will be fine IMHO. Darker roasted grain can drop your ph during the mash, so u might be more critical brewing darker beers. Just my .02

I would not jump into a first batch of all grain using RO water...better off not even checking ph than using RO on ur first few batches.

bobbrewedit said:

I would not jump into a first batch of all grain using RO water...better off not even checking ph than using RO on ur first few batches.

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Really? Why? I can't imagine why tap water or spring water would be better than RO water for AG.

This is where I started. Brewing BMs house ale in a BIAB system with thick or thin mash I failed my fist five brews. It does matter. My water is good water too. My solution was a long road with walking to the water company, getting a pH meter, using water apreadsheets, and adding lactic acid. But now I know that with a thick mash say 1.5 quarts per pound and 2 teaspoons of gypsum, I would have been ok.

Yooper said:

Really? Why? I can't imagine why tap water or spring water would be better than RO water for AG.

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I'm sorry Yoop, I should have been more clear. I don't think its better, but its just one more step to perfect for a guy new to AG. Ive never been forced to adjust my tap water (I have adjusted it per style) and have never had any issues with ph, so my experience stems from this.

I guess its possible that his spring water is off enough to be "un-brew worthy" but I doubt it. You don't agree?

bobbrewedit said:

I'm sorry Yoop, I should have been more clear. I don't think its better, but its just one more step to perfect for a guy new to AG. Ive never been forced to adjust my tap water (I have adjusted it per style) and have never had any issues with ph, so my experience stems from this.

I guess its possible that his spring water is off enough to be "un-brew worthy" but I doubt it. You don't agree?

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I don't know, as "spring water" isn't really regulated. It might even have chlorine in it, for all I know. It could be very high in bicarbonate, or it might have none.

But I know RO water and what it is, and as long as the source is reputable (the "water machines" serviced appropriately), I know what's in that.

Here's the water report -

http://www.crystal-springs.com/files/nonbrand/waterqualityreports/spring_water_quality_report.pdf

I know using my city water which is rated very high, if I brew a low abv pale ale I will be up over 6 pH. I did this a bunch since everything I read said you will be fine.

No water source is ideal for all beers. Learning what to adjust and how to adjust it is the whole point of brewing water chemistry adjustments. It sounds like the Dong has high alkalinity and can't brew a pale beer, but it may turn out that a fine darker beer can be brewed. A little learning could make it possible for that water to make better pale beers.

IMO, unless you have extreme water, if you don't worry about the mash pH, you're probably going to be fine. Many good homebrews have been made without considering it.

That being said, paying attention to mash pH will probably improve your beers and help to brew more consistently. It's something to consider as you learn more about the hobby.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about the pH of the sparge water than the mash.

I'm the first one to admit that even I don't understand the intricacies of water chemistry, but there is more to it than just looking at the pH.

"High" pH basically means nothing if the water is not very alkaline, which glancing at this water sheet it appears to not be alkaline at all. Akaline water resists pH change better than non-alkaline water. This water has very little alkalinity, so I don't theoretically see the grains having a tough time handling a pH of 7. Unfortunately some of the other important ions are missing from this brew sheet, so that's hard to really say if its "suitable" or not

To the originator of this thread: is your tap water pretty bad? Why do you use bottled water?

TheBeerist said:

To the originator of this thread: is your tap water pretty bad? Why do you use bottled water?

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I've been using bottled and extract brewing for about 6 months now. My tap water is very hard and has chlorite in it. I haven't really started looking into my water supply until now when going all grain. I'm currently having my tap water tested, hopefully the results will be back next week.

Spartan1979 said:

I'd be more concerned about the pH of the sparge water than the mash.

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That's a good point because alkaline sparge water can lead to a reliably harsh beer. However, a very alkaline mash will extract sugars, but end up with an unpredictable flavor domain, and in my experience, with weird off flavors that are hard to isolate. Inland water has minerals, but places with surface water can be randomly soft compared to standard (ideal?) European water.

There's a tendency in homebrewing to notice how difficult something seems and wait until you're forced to change. Water chemstrity accounts for so much of the substrate of the bee, with all grain, and I believe it's worth biting the bullet to learn about it. Your beers will improve immensely.

To improve a beer, I think these are the ways that have noticeably changed the final product (assuming your process is consistent, and sanitation is clean):

1) water salts and mash pH
2) temperature control
3) starting yeast

See: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Experiment_normal_vs_high_pH.jpg

Right is too high of a pH, making the beer darker than expect via Maillard processes.

Thanks everyone!

I went ahead and used the water as is, we will see how it goes. The wort tasted great before I pitched. Unfortunately I had other issues and the OG came out to about 1.042.

As for temp control, I made a fermentation chamber before I started brewing, and I always make yeast starters unless pitching dry.

BreezyBrew said:

Thanks everyone!

I went ahead and used the water as is, we will see how it goes. The wort tasted great before I pitched. Unfortunately I had other issues and the OG came out to about 1.042.

As for temp control, I made a fermentation chamber before I started brewing, and I always make yeast starters unless pitching dry.

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That's why pH is one of the last things a new, all grain brewer should be concerned about. As others have said...unless you have some sort of extreme water it won't be that major of a factor. For now I would just concentrate on learning the "intricacies" of your all grain equipment and focus on basic techniques.

BreezyBrew said:

Thanks everyone!

I went ahead and used the water as is, we will see how it goes. The wort tasted great before I pitched. Unfortunately I had other issues and the OG came out to about 1.042.

As for temp control, I made a fermentation chamber before I started brewing, and I always make yeast starters unless pitching dry.

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Glad to hear things turned out okay...its all about fine tuning now huh!