Reasons not to use a Better Bottle?

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bung-ho

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Hi All,
So I really like the idea of fermenting exclusively in glass carboys, but the pragmatism of the Better Bottles is winning me over. So I want your guys' input-- aside from the overall nicer aesthetic, does anyone have reasoning compelling enough that I shouldn't make the switch? Thanks for any and all info.

P.S. I'm looking to get a little bit past the wiki (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Glass_Carboy_vs_Better_Bottle). What I really want is convincing logic that I should stick with glass.
 
If you get an infection in a plastic container, then you really should get rid of said container. If you're using glass or metal, then you don't need to worry about it.

But if you're thinking better bottles are the way to go, then just buy some already and make up your own mind. No need to start another 60-post argument on the topic.
 
All personal preference. I prefer buckets myself, but I use a 5g glass for 3G batches.
 
I prefer to be able to scrub the hell out of my glass carboys. I wouldn't feel comfortable using the force I do on a plastic carboy. I'd almost certainly scratch it up.

Both good. Both work. Personal preference.

There's a ton of threads on this topic already, all very long and well-contributed. Might be a good idea to go read those first.
 
Well, if you find yourself making wine, you can't apply suction to Better Bottles (like with a Foodsaver or brake line bleeder) to degas. It's not like a glass carboy is a pressure vessel, either, but the sides won't flex under a little gentle suction (up until it breaks).
 
LandoLincoln said:
But if you're thinking better bottles are the way to go, then just buy some already and make up your own mind. No need to start another 60-post argument on the topic.

Isn't this the point of the forum? "Make up your own mind".... Again, not the attitude of a forum participant...

Just my opinion...
 
Isn't this the point of the forum? "Make up your own mind".... Again, not the attitude of a forum participant...

Just my opinion...

Probably because he's been in on many previous discussions of the same topic that keeps getting rehashed with no new information.

Would you rather he said "learn to use the search function" like is common on other forums?
 
If you get an infection in a plastic container, then you really should get rid of said container. If you're using glass or metal, then you don't need to worry about it.

But if you're thinking better bottles are the way to go, then just buy some already and make up your own mind. No need to start another 60-post argument on the topic.

Yes. If you want advice on brewing equipment go to a brewing forum. Oh wait...
 
Have you ever looked in your cupboard at a plastic cup, and then in glass one? The plastic gets scratched and kinda beat after some time and looks ugly.

Also, if you ask a marijuana smoker what kind of pipe they prefer the guys that have been smoking longer will prefer glass....
Not trying to throw any weird conversation on the forum, just trying to make a point. That glass is the least permeable...

Glass is pure, It lasts longer (if not broken), It's easier to clean and sanitize and just seems better to me...

I have only been brewing for a few years but I have never broken a carboy.

For me plastic is last, then metal, then glass.

Back in the day I used to drink Rolling Rock beer. If you look on the outside of the glass Rolling Rock bottle it will have a statement printed on it that says "From the glass lined tanks of old Latrobe".
Glass Lined.... That's the way to go!

Now if you're in and arctica and shipping is a big problem cost wise, that would be the only reason that I would go with the plastic carboy...
(Scratch that, I'd still pay the exorbitant amount of shipping for the glass)!
:mug:
 
I apologize for my snippiness. I just know the Anti-Glass Nazis are going to be coming for me. It's making me irritable.
 
thadius856 said:
Probably because he's been in on many previous discussions of the same topic that keeps getting rehashed with no new information.

Would you rather he said "learn to use the search function" like is common on other forums?

I do understand your point, But maybe to the person posting that's a bit harsh. And is it the fault of the new forum member not to follow the past posts of old? I understand the search function but if the guy is new then shouldn't we be helpful and not brisk.
Lastly, If someone is frustrated with information being brought up over again maybe not commenting is the right way to go.

Please don't get me wrong guys, I'm not trying to be persnickety or argumentative, I just had someone be kind of short with me once when I was brand-new on a forum and it seemed a little unfriendly...
 
LandoLincoln said:
I apologize for my snippiness. I just know the Anti-Glass Nazis are going to be coming for me. It's making me irritable.

Lol... That was good Lincoln...
I know a few of those guys too, There goose-stepping towards us... Hahaha
 
I've never used a better bottle...I'm just a glass man at heart. I've got Pyrex carboys that are probably older than many members.
 
In most carboys it is the closure/airlock that causes problems in long term storage. (PETE carboys)

Better Bottles with their particular closure, as well as a glass carboy with a suitable (similar) closure are both good for long term storage.

From an old post ...
Common silicone or PVC stoppers are really not suitable for long term storage and are notorious for allowing in oxygen long term. As well, any closure using liquid over the long haul will gradually leach oxygen thru the liquid in the airlock.

The best against oxygen infiltration are something like the closure products from Better Bottles. Other things that work well are natural rubber stoppers or carboy-caps ... although with natural rubber, very old ones will eventually dry out.
The old, stinky black or red neoprene stoppers are also decent against oxygen infiltration ... it just the odor potentially getting into your product that seems to be a downside.


One other potential downside for glass carboys is that they are subject to micro-cracking from rough handling, crappy manufacturing, and also from significant freeze/thaw cycles. For instance, glass carboys kept long term in a garage where the winter temps get below -0* winter and +90* summer could potentially introduce structural problems. While this does not *necessarily* mean that you will have increased oxygen infiltration or a carboy failure (you pick it up full of liquid one day and it falls apart) ... it is still something to keep in mind. Particularly if you buy carboys used.

A downside for Better Bottles carboy? ... although the BB carboy is manufactured to have much less oxygen infiltration than other PETE carboys, I believe that just as with wine bottles; a new, well manufactured solid glass carboy with a proper closure will prevent undesirable oxygen infiltration better than the plastic BB carboy will, long term ... but I am talking about very long term storage ... 3 or 5 years plus. And when you are storing something that long there are a whole host of other factors that one needs to be on top of to improve the likelihood of successful long term storage.
 
I've got 12 better bottles and 8 glass carboys and have used both for many years. I prefer the BBs for reasons that you can easily find with the search function, so I wont repeat here - but people keep giving me their old glass carboys and I've held on to a few of the nicer ones.

I will add this: I know dozens of brewers and have seen quite a few switch from glass to BBs, but never the other way around. Check your local craigslist. Old glass carboys can be found a dime a dozen. I doubt you'll find anyone selling a BB. There is a reason for this.
 
I like the BB beacause they are much lighter to move around. The one thing that has me curious is I let my dirty BB's sit outside at times for a week soaking in Oxy Clean. Will the sun eventually weaken the plastic?
 
PackerfaninSanDiego said:
I like the BB beacause they are much lighter to move around. The one thing that has me curious is I let my dirty BB's sit outside at times for a week soaking in Oxy Clean. Will the sun eventually weaken the plastic?

I would bet "Yes"
 
I have both. If I was starting over I would only have BB, mainly because the are light and easy to move around and I don't have to worry about breaking them.

Actually, it I was starting over, I probably would have nothing but buckets...
 
i almost strictly use buckets. my 1 carboy is a better bottle. reason? because when i rack the few types i rack, i've sometimes had a few, and i've never dropped and broke a bb, then cut myself on it. never cut myself on a glass carboy, either, but would be much easier, and i have dropped a couple of them... :drunk:
 
Good points about both BB and glass on this thread.
Within reason, I'm not too put off by the "Anti-Glass Nazi's" or those of any other topic ... I'm just looking for good, reasoned thinking. People having divergent opinions contributes to the process as long as they are civil.
 
The better bottle arguments Are filled with holes like Swiss cheese!
People keep talking about weight... Have any of you guys tried picking up an empty glass carboy? A kid could do it....
Now add about 6 gallons of juice. Probably weighs just a tad more then a better bottle with 6 gallons of juice. Now throw one of those nylon carboy carrier straps on it... Voilà!
To my knowledge a better bottle does not have straps on it does it... Or put the glass carboy in a milk crate, DONE DEAL KIDS
 
there ya go...the debate is finally over
BB's are just cheap plastic that can harbor old odors and bacteria....
They scratch up. If you ever get a bacterial infection in the thing you have to throw it away. As easy to move when they're full as my glass carboys, As easy to move when they're empty as my glass carboys....

And the fact that will crush all others: Nine out of 10 hot brew chicks will pick glass! Lol
08F894AC-A843-42F6-A6C0-779C09D73ABA-2224-000002B7B38CBDF5_zpsdbbc498f.jpg


:mug:
 
I can take a better bottle, hold it by the neck and turn it upside down over my sink and use the sink spray to rinse it after I soak it in oxyclean. I can't do that with a glass carboy. If I should happen to drop my better bottle on the granite counter top there is no danger of breaking the bottle or damaging my counter top. I cannot do that with glass.

You can close the thread now ;)
 
CGVT said:
I can take a better bottle, hold it by the neck and turn it upside down over my sink and use the sink spray to rinse it after I soak it in oxyclean. I can't do that with a glass carboy. If I should happen to drop my better bottle on the granite counter top there is no danger of breaking the bottle or damaging my counter top. I cannot do that with glass.

You can close the thread now ;)

Wait, not yet.... I have held the glass upside down over my sink and clean them out one handed no prob, As a matter of fact I have done that every time.
This discussion I think will go on until the end of time... it's like the Ford/Chevy thing...

For every person who has a reason why a better bottle is better than my glass carboy I will have an answer for them on why they are incorrect &
For every reason that I come up with on why a glass carboy is better some better bottle lover will try to contraire my mon frere...

P.s. And for all the better bottle fans out there, This weekend I am going to go to the homebrew supply store and buy a better bottle So I can use it as a porta potty on my next camping trip.

Ok, I've had my fun now...
:mug:
 
thadius856 said:
And then while they were having their pissing contest, Asian took the market right out of their fat, greedy hands with superior products at lower price points. :\

Superior products at lower price points?
I don't think the Japanese make the better bottle carboy. If any Asians are producing things at a lower price point I think that would be Chinese.
Not known for producing superior products.
 
Superior products at lower price points?
I don't think the Japanese make the better bottle carboy. If any Asians are producing things at a lower price point I think that would be Chinese.
Not known for producing superior products.

Cars, boy, cars! Not carboys!

Go take a long walk off a short Cannery Row...
 
Brewers:
I LOVE glass for chemical inertness, plastic for safety, but am going to ss kegs: You see one ferm'n(or, yeast infection), you've seen 'em all.
Merely adjust batch size to 5 gal, or 2 x 5 gal kegs, or CHI sells 10 gal kegs. Whatever. Do the math.
You may need to fill headspace w/ CO2. So what?
The yeast settles FLAT, as if it were mercury.
No need to scratch: use one of the percarbonate cleaners. Do not use acids on ss.
No, use of ss will not produce a BMC beer.
 
How much time are Better Bottles designed to wear out in?

I'd like to know, I've got six of them.

No idea. I didn't engineer them. Both fail in some period of time.

I wish the glass ones were engineered with failure in mind. Then maybe they'd at least have some sort of anti- cut the **** out of you material inside the glass or be made out of windshield glass or something.
 
First of all, I think "Just go buy one and find out for yourself" isn't an actual violation of the forum rules. It's valid (and fantastic) advice. Unless you're on an extraordinarily tight budget, when something is as much a matter of preference and circumstances as this, there's no right answer. That's not to say it's not worth getting opinions, but the best way to find out what works for you is to spend time brewing and trying different options until you're happy.

In some cases you may be able to rule out options. For me, glass carboys are simply not even worth considering because I have little kids running around a small house with a walk-through kitchen (brewery), so there's no way to keep them out of it while I work. I'm not willing to risk a carboy breaking and injuring them. As soon as I learned about Better Bottles, I made the decision that I would not be using glass. I prefer the BBs to buckets for fermentation because I like to see the contents.

Regarding weight: a 6 gallon glass carboy is around 13 pounds. If you have 5.5 gallons of beer in it, you save around 20% of the weight by going with a BB. For me, the difference between ~45 pounds and ~60 pounds is significant.
 
No idea. I didn't engineer them. Both fail in some period of time.

I wish the glass ones were engineered with failure in mind. Then maybe they'd at least have some sort of anti- cut the **** out of you material inside the glass or be made out of windshield glass or something.

I had a glass one for about a year. It ended up in pieces. My BB have been going strong for 4 years.

I'd say anything made of glass is designed to fail. Glass is inherently fragile.
 
What the heck are you guys doing with these carboys? Juggling them?

Just be careful and have a few less brews when you're trying to clean them...

I think the problem here is clumsiness and not being mindful in whatever it is you are doing.

You guys have inspired me to go buy a few more glass carboys.
HA
 
I'd say anything made of glass is designed to fail. Glass is inherently fragile.

I understand your point, but still disagree.

Unless it has a sort of safety mechanism for when it fails or to prevent its failure (bulletproof, shatterproof, meshed, borosilicate, Gorilla Glass formulation, etc), I can't accept that it's designed to fail. It's designed as a commodity, and not much more.

It's a shame. I'd bet an arm and a middle leg that a glass carboy designed and marketed to fail in a safe manner would be a huge hit.
 
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