What is Pacman supposed to taste like?

So I have used Pacman in two different brews, both american pale ales of different recipes. The first came out tasting very sour and kinda like spoiled milk. This led me to think it was a lactose infection. I sanitized with bleach, then acid, then cleaned with PBW, then sanitized with starsan. I have made 4 good brews since using pacman, all with the same equipment. Recently I decided to use Pacman again in a very simple recipe. Same exact taste in the outcome!! What the heck is going on? People rave about pacman but to me it tastes like spoiled milk.

Everyone likes it because its got a very low flavor profile and its high alcohol tolerance. It makes a good house strain, maybe your problem is something else

i doubt it is the pacman. rogue brewery uses it as a house yeast, and none of their beers taste like sour milk. where are you getting it from?

a 'sour milk' flavor really seems like an infection. you may be harboring an infection somewhere in your system. hard to say where. if it were me, and it keeps happening, i would replace my plastic equipment, and/or really review my sanitation and cleaning practices

Similar to American Ale II in my opinion. Used it before without the results you've had.

I'm guessing your yeast culture got infected somewhere along the way, especially if you harvested it from a bottle.

How are you harvesting the yeast? It is possible that there is a problem with your process? We need a little more info please.

PacMan is a very neutral yeast so there should not be any "taste" at all other than the hops and malt of the style/recipe.

I have brewed dozens of pilot batches using PM and have never encountered a sour milk taste or any real taste for that matter.

Re: PM being similar to AA2 - I disagree. AA2 is much frutier than PM not to mention the Chico strain. I love AA2 and use it often but it is a lot different than PM.

It was suggested to me as a replacement for pacman, used pacman before not aa2...yet... got three packs and some recipes to do this weekend...and a hefe to redo, unrelated to aa2 of course.

I agree that it doesn't taste like AA2 (my favorite for american ales). It is more attenuative and, when fermenting on the cool side, is very neutral. I actually feel like it kind of accentuates the flavor of the mineral content of your water but that could just be me.
When fermented warm pacman supposedly gives off some British yeast flavors, still not like AA2, though.

WilliamWS said:

I actually feel like it kind of accentuates the flavor of the mineral content of your water but that could just be me.

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agreed! I love PM but this added mineral flavor has come through both times I've used it, in one case so much so that it takes the edge off of my hop profile. Guess it's time for a water profile report...

Well I know it is not an infection because I have had 4 good beers in between the two pacman cases... The only comon denominator is the yeast and 2 row malt. It has been wyeast packs and I know one of them came from AHS but I forget where the first one came from. I doubt an infection could survive a week soak in bleach, a day of acid, cleaning with PBW and then sanitizing with starsan.

PurpleJeepXJ said:

Well I know it is not an infection because I have had 4 good beers in between the two pacman cases... The only comon denominator is the yeast and 2 row malt. It has been wyeast packs and I know one of them came from AHS but I forget where the first one came from. I doubt an infection could survive a week soak in bleach, a day of acid, cleaning with PBW and then sanitizing with starsan.

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that doesn't mean its not an infection. i can tell you, its NOT the pacman. many breweries use it. and so do many homebrewers. its either an infection, or something very unusual.

pacman does not taste like sour milk, ever. unless its infected with something. the taste you are getting is either from an infection, or something other than pacman

or maybe you racked it too early and are tasting a lot of yeasty byproducts. in which case, that could happen to any yeast strain, not particularly pacman. hard to say. but if done right, pacman will not taste sour

IMO sour milk screams infection to me

PurpleJeepXJ said:

I doubt an infection could survive a week soak in bleach, a day of acid, cleaning with PBW and then sanitizing with starsan.

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If you're using plastic that has any sort of scratches an infection absolutely can survive all of that, no problem. That's precisely why the advice you always hear given to someone who's experienced an infection is to throw out all of your plastic that came into contact with that batch. If the plastic is scratched (and sometimes scratches are too small to really notice) there is no way to sanitize it.

Also, there could be all sorts of different reasons that the four batches in between didn't taste bad, esp since you weren't brewing the same recipe. To list just a few:

-The flavor of the non-pacman yeast you used may have covered some of the off flavors.
-If the 4 good beers were hoppy, the hops could have inhibited the growth of the unwanted bacteria and/or could have masked some of the off flavors
-If the good beers were big beers or started with a low ph the alcohol and/or ph could have slowed the growth of bacteria such that it wasn't that noticeable
-Any strong flavors (dark roasted malts, spices, etc) could have masked some off flavors.

possibly wyeast had a few bad smackpacks that running?

Rivenin said:

possibly wyeast had a few bad smackpacks that running?

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Or it was old yeast, or it had been exposed to high temps before you got it...?

dbrewski said:

Or it was old yeast, or it had been exposed to high temps before you got it...?

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as far as i know, that would just result in a lower cell count. not an infected smack pack

Yeah I have used it like 6 or 7 times now and have never ever gotten a sour milk flavor from it.

I could understand old yeast or an infection from the yeast itself but my equipment is all stainless except for my mash paddle and various gaskets. Gaskets have been replaced and mash paddle is pre boil.

PurpleJeepXJ said:

I could understand old yeast or an infection from the yeast itself but my equipment is all stainless except for my mash paddle and various gaskets. Gaskets have been replaced and mash paddle is pre boil.

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what are you fermenting in? and at what temps? maybe pacman requires a different fermentation environment than the other beers you made.

I'm more interested in what Ms. Pacman tastes like


ZING

If you don't like the yeast, don't use it. I wouldn't blame the bad batches on it. Maybe you are missing something in your sanitation process. I have used Pacman harvested from bottles for two or three brews and have had fantastic results. Maybe try that instead of the smack packs if you are dead set on using the yeast.

Definitely cannot blame the spoiled milk flavor on one of the cleanest strains out there!

I know this is old, but I recently did a split batch and fermented one with bottle harvested Pacman, and the other with rinsed WLP565 Saison yeast. The wort was American Amber, which is supposed to have decent hop flavor and aroma, but I think I underhopped it (by scaling my flavor hops based on AA% for late additions – won't do that again).

ANYway, the pacman version was not hoppy at all and tasted kind of odd but not sour milk. The saison version had much more going on and was way more interesting.

My tap water profile is also "very malty", so perhaps that combined with the underhopping AND the Pacman I got negative results.

I rinsed the Pacman from that batch, but I too would like some more assurance that my yeast is okay. I am going to research pilot batches and give that a go.