Aged Star San

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ChandlerBang

ChandlerBang

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Long story short, I have half a bottle of Star San that I got from a guy that I bought a bunch of brewing stuff from. We think it is a couple years old. Is it any good? What is the self life on the stuff?

Thanks
 
Thanks. Another random question, how do you get the signature to show up at the bottom of the reply?
 
Found a post on another forum by Charlie Talley, the Starsan man himself:

Star San is based on phosphoric acid, being an acid is is very friendly to s/s. When storing the use solution of Star San keep these things in mind. First it is still active as long as the pH is below 3, and the solution is clear. When the solution turns cloudy the soap in Star San has reacted with the mineral in the make-up water and has made the final solution useless. A good way of getting around this is to make up the Star San up with D.I. Water.

Keeping Star is plastic or in Stainless Steel is OK as long as the first two comments are met.

Star San will kill just about every organism known to man in 30 seconds.

And last but not least is the foam. Since Star San will not kill when the pH goes above 3 any small amount left in a bottle or a keg will not stop the furmentation process and it is safe to drink the beer that is what comes out of the package. That is why Star San has a no rinse claim.

Oh one more thing Star San is an acid and it will make a mess of counter-tops and rugs if it is spilled on them be carfull when using it.

Charlie
 
Nateo said:
Found a post on another forum by Charlie Talley, the Starsan man himself:

Star San is based on phosphoric acid, being an acid is is very friendly to s/s. When storing the use solution of Star San keep these things in mind. First it is still active as long as the pH is below 3, and the solution is clear. When the solution turns cloudy the soap in Star San has reacted with the mineral in the make-up water and has made the final solution useless. A good way of getting around this is to make up the Star San up with D.I. Water.

Keeping Star is plastic or in Stainless Steel is OK as long as the first two comments are met.

Star San will kill just about every organism known to man in 30 seconds.

And last but not least is the foam. Since Star San will not kill when the pH goes above 3 any small amount left in a bottle or a keg will not stop the furmentation process and it is safe to drink the beer that is what comes out of the package. That is why Star San has a no rinse claim.

Oh one more thing Star San is an acid and it will make a mess of counter-tops and rugs if it is spilled on them be carfull when using it.

Charlie
Click to expand...

that is great in regards to the solution. But I think the OP is quering about the shelf life of the concentrate. Which, IIRC, is very stable.
 
Great info thanks. I bought a bottle of Iodophor at the LHBS today because she SWEARS by it. And had an otherwise unimpressed look on her face when I said I read a lot of good things about Star San. Do I need to rinse after using Iodophor?
 
And yes, specifically I was asking about the concentrate. I mixed some up in a bucket and it foamed a little and had a greenish bluish tint to it.
 
cwaite37 said:
Great info thanks. I bought a bottle of Iodophor at the LHBS today because she SWEARS by it. And had an otherwise unimpressed look on her face when I said I read a lot of good things about Star San. Do I need to rinse after using Iodophor?
Click to expand...

Not if mixed properly (concentration 10ppm, IIRC).

If you have a high mineral, hard, high pH water, like me, Iodophor may be useless at any concentration. Furthermore, the solution shelf life is only 8 hours under ideal conditions.
 
I'm new to SS. I mixed up a 5 gallon bucket and it turned cloudy right away. I assumed it went clear when it became ineffective. Could my city water be that bad? :confused:

I hope my last batch of beer is ok considering I used that batch of SS to sanitize everything. :(
 
Frank-Likes-Beer said:
I'm new to SS. I mixed up a 5 gallon bucket and it turned cloudy right away. I assumed it went clear when it became ineffective. Could my city water be that bad? :confused:

I hope my last batch of beer is ok considering I used that batch of SS to sanitize everything. :(
Click to expand...

StarSan is pH dependant (pH 3.5). If it is cloudy at mix-up there is some mineral action at work, whether it renders the solution useless is questionable. Water pH has a LOT of influence too. Mine starts at pH 9.2 thus the standard mix rate does not apply.

Mush easier to do the math and mix small batches in distilled or RO water and it will store, damned near, indefinitely. I have mixed up a 5 gallon batch in a Culligan RO carboy and had it hold it's pH well beyond my needs. One carboy has lasted me 3 years of frugal but deliberate use.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Not if mixed properly (concentration 10ppm, IIRC).

If you have a high mineral, hard, high pH water, like me, Iodophor may be useless at any concentration. Furthermore, the solution shelf life is only 8 hours under ideal conditions.
Click to expand...

I have hardish water and I don't know about the pH. Is there a pH range for Iodophor? I just mixed to the directions and the bottle said it should be light tan in color so I assumed it was ok. I guess I'll know if the beer is bad.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
One carboy has lasted me 3 years of frugal but deliberate use.
Click to expand...

WOW! I think that this must mean I misunderstand the use. I thought it had to be in contact with said items for 30 seconds (the Iodophor said 2 minutes) so I thought I'll fill up the bath tub and start chuckin'. (I have 6 carboys, 3 cornies, and 5 buckets to sanitize after cleaning that I bought from friend)
 
Too expensive to use that way -
It's not a cleaner, it's a sanitizer - so a bathtub full is a waste - you're going to let it all down the drain.

If you mix a batch - even a gallon in a jug, then pick up a small sprayer from the shampoo section of wallyworld, you can spray down the items that are clean and need sanitation. You can pour a bit into your carboy/pail and swirl and swish.

it's a wet-contact sanitizer. Clean stuff can sit soaking awhile, or not - but just before you use it, (tubing, autosiphon, pail, etc.), get it wet with starsan.

I mix up 5 gallons and store it in an old corny, and just use what I need. My 32oz bottle of concentrate may last the rest of my life...
 
cwaite37 said:
I have hardish water and I don't know about the pH. Is there a pH range for Iodophor? I just mixed to the directions and the bottle said it should be light tan in color so I assumed it was ok. I guess I'll know if the beer is bad.
Click to expand...

I know of no pH range for Iodophor. It's an Iodine thing not an acid thing.

If you have stable color change then you should be fine. When I mix the reccomennded amount of Iodophor into my tap water it clears nearly instantly. That is, my water neutralizes the iodine INSTANTLY. :eek:

cwaite37 said:
WOW! I think that this must mean I misunderstand the use. I thought it had to be in contact with said items for 30 seconds (the Iodophor said 2 minutes) so I thought I'll fill up the bath tub and start chuckin'. (I have 6 carboys, 3 cornies, and 5 buckets to sanitize after cleaning that I bought from friend)
Click to expand...

30 second wet contact, yes. 30 second immersion, no. A spritzer bottle is your friend. A 16 ounce bottle needs .75mL StarSan concentrate (in RO or Dist) to get the right mix. Just spray it on generously to coat the surface and wait 30 seconds before using said item.

For carboys, I dump the 16 ounce bottle in. Swirl to coat all surfaces and pour the solution back into the spritzer bottle (via funnel). Done.
 
Ok so the 2 minute contact thing doesn't mean submerged. That makes things a lot easier. So I can wash normal to keep stuff clean and then, provided there isn't any actual dirt on the surface to be sanitized, just spray it off or wipe it down?
 
cwaite37 said:
Ok so the 2 minute contact thing doesn't mean submerged. That makes things a lot easier. So I can wash normal to keep stuff clean and then, provided there isn't any actual dirt on the surface to be sanitized, just spray it off or wipe it down?
Click to expand...

If there is dirt on the surface to be sanitized, it's not ready. Wash, Rinse, Repeat as needed.

think of sanitizer as an insurance against microbes, not as a cleaner.
 
Iodophor should be mixed to 12.5 ppm. That's 3 ml or 1/10th ounce per gallon of water. 1/2 ounce or 15 ml for 5 gallons of water. Contact time is 60 seconds. Rinsing is not required. A properly mixed solution leaves no residue when it dries, however, you don't need to let the sanitized items dry. Just drain them. It stains plastic and some other materials an orangish brown color.

GilaMinumBeer, I hadn't heard of Iodophor being neutralized by high ph water like yours, but googling it turned up some info that some older formulations of Iodophor required a ph below 5 to work properly. Newer formulations like B-T-F Iodophor are not supposed to be sensitive to ph. What brand did you use?
 
billtzk said:
GilaMinumBeer, I hadn't heard of Iodophor being neutralized by high ph water like yours, but googling it turned up some info that some older formulations of Iodophor required a ph below 5 to work properly. Newer formulations like B-T-F Iodophor are not supposed to be sensitive to ph. What brand did you use?
Click to expand...

Not sure. I think it was BTF. I did contact the manufacturer technical assistance with copy of water chemistry analysis in hand and was litearlly told to use something else since the mixture would require a more mineral neutral and pH neutral base which would require the purchase of water and add to the cost negatively since the mixture shelf life is so limited.

Yes. They literally told me I'd be better of using StarSan.
 
That's interesting. I need to find out what the mineral content and ph of my water is. I've never bothered to check because my beer tastes good without any alterations. I just filter it with a charcoal filter. It's fairly soft water.
 
billtzk said:
That's interesting. I need to find out what the mineral content and ph of my water is. I've never bothered to check because my beer tastes good without any alterations. I just filter it with a charcoal filter. It's fairly soft water.
Click to expand...

It was this very occurence that opened the pathways to me learning more about my water.

4 years later....

I have learned that I should stop trying to use my water. I just haven't learned how to stop trying.
 
I have a related question. Is it harmful/bad/inadvisable to mix it up at a stronger concentration? Does it require rinsing when stronger?
 
I dunno. Why would you want to tho?

pH is base 10 logarithmic. Meaning pH 3.5 isn't 3.5 times more acidic than pH 7 it's 1000 times more acidic.

Is that not sufficient?
 
however- along those lines - if you want to get the paint off of painted bottles, like Rogue and Stone 22oz'ers - a soak in double-strength StarSan works magic!
 
I have the same problem with the mixture turning cloudy after I added it right away. Interestly though the mixture turned cloudy quicker when I added the SS to the water than it did when I added water to SS. I never got an infection and all my bottles are clear. Personally, going to switch to Sodium Meta-bisulphate after I use all my StarSan at $4 for a 2 pound bag on MWS i'll save a load of money.
 
Without sounding like a jerk, Star San isn't incredibly expensive, if it were me I'd opt for finding some new stuff on the cheap.
 
I'll chime in. Though a brewing newbie, I work at a cheese plant and sanitation is very important. Actually the three sanitizers we use all the time are chlorine, iodine and an acid sanitizer. Every year we have the rep from out chemical company come in for sanitation training. A few things he has said that fit with the questions/comments in this thread:

1. Sanitization is not cleaning. Forget what you hear in adverts for Scrubbing Bubbles, bubbles don't scrub. You need to remove the "gross soil" that can harbor bacteria before you sanitize. This is cleaning and often requires manual action like scrubbing with a brush or scrub pad.

2. Sanitizers are formulated to work perfectly at the recommended strength. Adding more doesn't make anything more sanitary, it just messes up the process. Unless you're trying to remove paint as one poster mentioned. You'd think that as a rep for a chemical company he would want us to use as much as possible, but that's not the case.

3. Never mix acids and chlorines. You will make mustard gas. So keep the bleach away from the star san.
 
abweatherley said:
I have the same problem with the mixture turning cloudy after I added it right away.
Click to expand...

I got this tip from the inventor, Charlie Talley on a podcast.
Starsan will turn cloudy if it touches too many minerals... long story short, the minerals get in the way of the acid bonding with hydrogen.

Solution: use DISTILLED water ($1/gallon) from your supermarket to dilute starsan.
After I'm done sanitizing, I pour my diluted starsan back into the gallon jugs (marking them as starsan). There may be some extra foam at the end, so watch out for spills.

Charlie says this stuff will keep and stay clear for months.
It does, I keep it for 3 months and then make a new one.
 
i'm takign it that everyone is talkign about a mixed solution of starsan - cause the undiluted stuff in the bottle will pretty much keep for years and years right?
 

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