Aerate before secondary

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Gitchigumi

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Hi,

I am brewing Midwest's Bigfoot's Barleywine and just pitched to secondary with the champagne yeast. Should I have aerated before transfering to the secondary vessel? It's been three days and I have not seen any yeats action.

Thanks for any advice!
 
No. No. No. And then no. No oxygen once fermentation has started. :D

Well, since you're brewing a big beer, I'll amend the above advice which is generally accepted and say: No oxygen after the first 24 hours or so unless it's a really big beer and you're adding a bunch more fermentables at the same time.

Sometimes in the case of a big beer, getting some extra aerobic growth in the early stages is a good thing. Also, when adding more fermentables, you can get away with some extra O2 since the yeast will have the chance to clean it up... but we're talking about REALLY big beers here, maybe 10%ABV (for a low/medium alcohol tolerance yeast) and above for one that's more tolerant.
 
Sir Humpsalot said:
Well, since you're brewing a big beer, I'll amend the above advice which is generally accepted and say: No oxygen after the first 24 hours or so unless it's a really big beer and you're adding a bunch more fermentables at the same time.

Sometimes in the case of a big beer, getting some extra aerobic growth in the early stages is a good thing. Also, when adding more fermentables, you can get away with some extra O2 since the yeast will have the chance to clean it up... but we're talking about REALLY big beers here, maybe 10%ABV (for a low/medium alcohol tolerance yeast) and above for one that's more tolerant.

I would argue pitch enough yeast to begin with so you don't need a second period of aerobic growth. But if this method has worked for you, carry on! :D
 
Normally, champagne yeast is used at bottling, after an extended period of conditioning has dropped too much of the yeast to the bottom and other beer yeasts can't handle the high alcohol environment. I really don't see much to gain from adding it to secondary. Probably better to add it to your bottling bucket.
 
True, kind of defies, one of, the purpose(s) of secondary, doesn't it? Clarification. The fact that the OP mentions no action after 3 days lead me to wonder if it was an attempt to knock of some more gravity points.
 
The "instructions" indicate that after the initial fermentation, the wort should transfered to a second vessel at which point the champagne yeast is added. My understanding of yeast and fermentation is that it is an aerobic process yet the "instructions" did not say to aerate. I am still seeing no activity which leads me to believe there may not be enough O2. The OG was 1.084 and after four weeks was stable at 1.020 for four days. Thank you for your advice!
 
The "instructions" indicate that after the initial fermentation, the wort should transfered to a second vessel at which point the champagne yeast is added. My understanding of yeast and fermentation is that it is an aerobic process yet the "instructions" did not say to aerate. I am still seeing no activity which leads me to believe there may not be enough O2. The OG was 1.044 and after four weeks was stable at 1.020 for four days. Thank you for your advice!

The OG couldn't have been 1.044, not if this is a barley wine. But a FG at 1.020 is fine.
 
The "instructions" indicate that after the initial fermentation, the wort should transfered to a second vessel at which point the champagne yeast is added. My understanding of yeast and fermentation is that it is an aerobic process yet the "instructions" did not say to aerate. I am still seeing no activity which leads me to believe there may not be enough O2. The OG was 1.084 and after four weeks was stable at 1.020 for four days. Thank you for your advice!

Yeast can function both aerobically and anaerobically. The good ol' fermentation that we know and love is an anaerobic process. What they required oxygen for is making sterols and lipds, which they use to strengthen their cell walls, allowing for reproduction. This is why a shortage of oxygen can lead to fermentation problems, because you end up too few yeast, or yeast whose health is somewhat compromised. Side note, one of the dry yeast manufacturers claims they propagate their yeast in a way where they build up their sterol reserves to a point where you don't need to aerate your wort because the yeast don't actually need more to propagate normally. Side note number two, you can actually forego oxygen and use a tiny drop of olive oil to accomplish the same goal. Instead of synthesizing the sterols, the yeast just absorb what they need from the olive oil.

Anyways, all that having been said, the reason why oxygenating after alcohol is present is that while oxygen and yeast get along great, oxygen and alcohol results in oxidation, which reduces the flavor stability of the beer and leads to flavors such as wet cardboard and musty basement.

While it is true that active yeast may take up some of the O2 you add, some of it will also react with your beer and result in oxidation. I think it was vinny from russian river that commented in an interview that people tend to overestimate how much the yeast will protect you from oxygen, and that was just in the situation of bottling, where you're not intentionally adding O2.

Lastly, I will say that the fact that its a barley wine means that oxidative notes are actually be an acceptable characteristic of the style (they're usually picked up through aging rather than oxygenating, so there is that small detail). Not saying you should intentionally try to oxidize the beer, but in this case, if you did, it wouldn't be as much of a problem as if you did it to a plisner or a pale ale, for example.
 
Hi,

Should I have aerated before transfering to the secondary vessel? It's been three days and I have not seen any yeats action.

Thanks for any advice!

"Should I have aerated before transfering to the secondary vessel?" NO.


"It's been three days and I have not seen any yeats action." The instructions state: leave in secondary for 6-8 WEEKS... Give it time.

omo:mug:

bosco
 
You wouldn't see any yeast activity in secondary unless you added more fermentables. 1.086 to 1.020 would indicate that the beer is done fermenting, especially since it was already in primary for over a month.
 
Gitchigumi said:
Thanks for the great info. This leaves me with the question of "what the champagne yeast is for?"

Champagne yeast is a higher alcohol tolerant yeast that can be pitched into an environment that already has alcohol present and can assist in bringing down an FG but results may vary.
 
I've been reading my new book on yeast and they discuss this a bit. The suggestion is that the yeast added later should be in a starter and already be in a somewhat alcoholic environment to avoid being shocked. Thus they suggest the second yeast is added to a small starter of the same stuff a few days prior to being added to the main batch. The idea being that you get the flavor characteristics of the first yeast and the increased attenuation of the second. Ba dum bum!
 

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