What is THAT taste? Learning flavors in beers. The good the bad and the UGLY!

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Zymurgrafi

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So after enjoying craft brews for nearly 2 decades and brewing my own for a little over 5 I am still trying to really pinpoint and describe flavors of beer. I think brewing was what really made me more aware and discerning overall. It is a good thing but with a price. It makes me a lot tougher of a critic and has raised and changed my standards of GOOD beer.

I find taking notes and reviewing beers has also greatly improved my understanding and appreciation. It has certainly broadened my beer "vocabulary" and helped to pick out enjoyable traits of beers. The thing I still have trouble with though is the un-enjoyable characteristics and off-flavors. I know when I do not like something about a beer but I find it much more difficult to describe and to identify what it is.

Some of these are easy. The unbalanced, sour (when it should not be) skunked/light stuck, etc. Fairly easy to pick out. Others I don't know. Maybe it is something wrong, maybe it something I just don't like but I do not know what it is.

Examples. One flavor that I have never been quite sure I understood but now I think I do is diacetyl. I know it is perceived as buttery. I have decided I do know this flavor now and I am really sensitive to it and cannot stand it. I taste it more as butterscotch than butter. The beers that helped me learn diacetyl... EVERYTHING brewed by Shipyard brewing of Maine. I have read peoples reviews of their beers and they say trace amounts of diacetyl. I say it WHOPS you in the face. I cannot drink any of their beers. No Ringwood yeast for me then!

One instance where I cannot pinpoint the funky flavor. Long Trail brewing. There is just something funky going on in their beers that does not work for me. Funny thing is this is recent. I used to enjoy many of their beers. For the last few years I detect something not quite right in those same beers. It could be yeast driven, could be a "house flavor", or perhaps their sanitation has gone down hill. I dunno, and I do not know how to describe it which makes tracking it down all the more elusive.

Any way, rambling on here at 3 am. This could really be a coherent discussion, but I fear I set it to words in the middle of the night. We'll see how it looks in the morn.
 
Examples. One flavor that I have never been quite sure I understood but now I think I do is diacetyl. I know it is perceived as buttery. I have decided I do know this flavor now and I am really sensitive to it and cannot stand it. I taste it more as butterscotch than butter. The beers that helped me learn diacetyl... EVERYTHING brewed by Shipyard brewing of Maine. I have read peoples reviews of their beers and they say trace amounts of diacetyl. I say it WHOPS you in the face. I cannot drink any of there beers. No Ringwood yeast for me then!

Tastes like rancid butter to me. Same with RedHook beers. They are great except their house strain is supposedly derived from Ringwood Ale. I am very sensitive to diacetyl, so I can barely choke them down unless they are chilled to 34*F.

I have detected diacetyl in beers fermented with Nottingham yeast as well which is otherwise a clean strain. If it's fermented in the low 60's or below, it needs a diacetyl rest around 70*F for a few days before separating the beer from trub.
 
Tastes like rancid butter to me. Same with RedHook beers. They are great except their house strain is supposedly derived from Ringwood Ale. I am very sensitive to diacetyl, so I can barely choke them down unless they are chilled to 34*F.

Interesting. I have been finding I do not enjoy Redhook beers as much as I used to either. That may explain it.

I am drinking a Southampton Publick House Altbier right now and I detect wicked diacetyl in that as well. Wonder what their yeast is.
 
I have detected diacetyl in beers fermented with Nottingham yeast as well which is otherwise a clean strain. If it's fermented in the low 60's or below, it needs a diacetyl rest around 70*F for a few days before separating the beer from trub.

Thanks for this pointer. I wasn't even thinking about it because it is an ale and not a lager but I have English Brown wrapping up right now done with Notty. It has spent the majority of its time in the low 60's. I' ll test for diacetyl before I prime.

Diacetyl is a funny flavor because just tonight I drank something with VERY noticable butter to it but it was delicious. It was an Australian Shiraz.

In beer diacetyl = bad In wine = good
 
I recently had a Brooklyn Lager with so much diacetyl I couldn't finish it.

Well, I could have, but I was at the Draught House. ;)
 
Two things I am sensitive to are extract twang and overdone homebrews. I find a lot of home brews are very often too much of something or other. malty, hoppy, adjuncty, etc. Makes it hard to enjoy more than one.
 
just had another flavor epiphany recently. Until that moment I did not truly understand clove and peppery yeast phenols. I really get it now.

The beer that helped me understand was one that should not have those characteristics. It was a McNeill's champ ale which is supposed to be an American Pale ale I believe. I have had it before and it was a good APA. It was wicked clovey and peppery this time! Took me a bit to place it then I realized it had a definite Belgian character mixed with citrusy American hops. I did not enjoy it at all. Now I understand what it is about Belgian golden strongs, Tripels, saisons, and bier de gardes, etc. I do not like. I just do not care for that peppery clove phenol character.

One more flavor profile to add to my understanding...
 
I used to enjoy the occasional Anchor Steam . . but now all I taste is "banana beer". I guess high fermentation temp = banana esters, but I never really noticed it before now.
 
I haven't tasted banana in Anchor Steam but I definitely like my homebrewed steam (I call it a fog) beer much better.
 
I haven't tasted banana in Anchor Steam but I definitely like my homebrewed steam (I call it a fog) beer much better.

I'm about to brew a Steam, so I was wondering, what yeast did you use (I've got some Saflager S-23), and at what temp did you ferm at? Do you think mid 50's to 60 is the place to be on temp?
 
I have always thought that Blue Moon tastes a bit like soap. I learned that it's the coriander when I was messing around with recipes on my own. It's not really an off-flavor, but I thought I would chime in to help the flavor identification effort.
 
I have always thought that Blue Moon tastes a bit like soap. I learned that it's the coriander when I was messing around with recipes on my own. It's not really an off-flavor, but I thought I would chime in to help the flavor identification effort.

I find coriander to be slightly metalluc to my palate. Not offensive at all but just that hint back there. I also get that from cilantro.
 
The problem I have now, is that so many beers I used to enjoy, are no longer enjoyable because my palette has become sensitized to these "off" flavors. Which sucks. As you guys mentioned, beers like anchor steam become so offensive to my tongue, I just can't choke it down.

One flavor I learned early on is what infected beer tastes like. Uuck! Plew! Spit spit spit.
New brewers ask all the time if they have infected beer if they detect some slightly off flavor. If you have infected beer, you can smell that funk from a mile away.
 
I sampled a first-time homebrew made by a friend of a friend, and that was the first time I was clearly able to detect diacetyl. It was a clear butterscotch flavor, and very unpleasant. Also, at a new years eve party I had a New Castle that was skunked!! I know clear bottles are a great way to skunk a beer, but this was the first time I've ever had a NC that tasted this bad. Maybe my buddy left them out in the cold day air to cool. It was gross!
 
I just had some Lagunitas Maximus (bomber) last week. Undrinkable. It was vinegary, sharp, and, and, and, just awful. (I like Lagunitas' stuff.) The last three offerings all tasted the same. Like crap, and vinegar.

For lack of a better beer at the golf course Saturday, I was offered a Coors Light. Of all the things to taste Diacetyl in, that'd be the last one I'd expect to find it in.
 
I'm about to brew a Steam, so I was wondering, what yeast did you use (I've got some Saflager S-23), and at what temp did you ferm at? Do you think mid 50's to 60 is the place to be on temp?

I use Wyeast 2112 California Lager with a starter. Ferment at 60F for 3 weeks and keg, then cold condition in the mid 50's for a couple of weeks. Nor sure there is a dry yeast that will give you the effect of a STEAM (tm) beer.
 
People think I am crazy and I can't really place it, but I find Heineken completely undrinkable. I would rather drink Budweiser.
 
People think I am crazy and I can't really place it, but I find Heineken completely undrinkable. I would rather drink Budweiser.

I hate Heineken. One of the few beers I just won't drink. Which brings up a good point, what is its flavor profile?

Are we talking Heineken in a bottle, draft, or can? The first is almost always skunked, the last two are excellent European lagers.
 
Are we talking Heineken in a bottle, draft, or can? The first is almost always skunked, the last two are excellent European lagers.

This is my problem with several beers. I really want to give them a chance, but I can't find them other than bottels and they're green bottles and always skunked. I refer to heineken, Pilsner Urquell,Stella ect. I've heard PU is a good beer, I would like to find it on tap somewhere and give it a fair shot. I don't understand why these places use Green bottles. They have to be aware of the skunk factor and that they're ruining their beers and causing people not to buy them.
 
I've heard PU is a good beer, I would like to find it on tap somewhere and give it a fair shot. [\QUOTE]

I think the best beer I ever had was Pilsner Urquell from a tap in a pub in Prague. If my wife and daughter had not been with me, I'd have made that outing last for a whole week!
 
Yeah, why the green bottles? I've had St. Paulie Girl many many times. Sometimes its less skunky then others but always a bit skunky.
I think PU isn't good out of the bottle, but its ok on tap.
 
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