Bottling Lager, add yeast?

Hi
I'm going to be bottling my first lager in about a week. I used wyeast 2308.
My question is should I add any yeast to the bottling bucket? I'm going to try yeast washing from the secondary, if I get anything. It seems that fermentation is either complete or close to it so I'm not sure what will form on the bottom of the secondary. Also I think this is supposed to go into bottles and right in to cold storage for 40days (40deg I think). I just want to make sure that with that temperature and time I will get carbonation.
Thanks!

I'm new to brewing myself having only two batches under my belt (1 kit PM brew and 1 AG brew). With that said, I can't imagine why you would put yeast into the bottling bucket. The yeast in your brew already should be built up more than enough to do the carbonation.

As for sedimentation, you'll probably get sediment as long as the yeast are still active as they settle out and probably continue to multiply to some extent. It's why you'd get sediment from bottle conditioned beers. At least that's my take on it all.

As for the other bits I can't comment. I've not yet done a lager.

I would guess you would get a better sample of washing yeast from a primary rather than a secondary.

No don't add yeast to the bottling bucket, add sugar instead. Approximately 3/4 cup corn sugar for 5 gallons of beer. Melt the sugar in a small amount of water on the stove and then add to your bottling bucket. Rack the beer from the secondary on top of it so it mixes evenly. Then bottle your beer and wait.

I am making my first lager tomorrow, but it will be kegged instead of bottled. I plan on keeping it in the low 40's after it is done.

At 40 degrees it will take months for those bottles to carbonate. Have you already been doing the lagering phase? If not, I would do the diactyl rest first, then lager, then bottle. You *can* bottle after primary then lager, but you will still need to fit three weeks at 70º in there some time if you expect bubbles in bottles.

When I bottled my Oktoberfest it'd been lagering for three months, and I didn't have to add yeast, just the bottling sugar.

Thanks. Yeah, my main worry is that if I lager it first I may not have enough yeast strength to make co2 in bottles. I think I will just try and lager it in the secondary then bottle after that, It sounds a lot easier....

EvilTOJ said:

At 40 degrees it will take months for those bottles to carbonate. Have you already been doing the lagering phase? If not, I would do the diactyl rest first, then lager, then bottle. You *can* bottle after primary then lager, but you will still need to fit three weeks at 70º in there some time if you expect bubbles in bottles.

When I bottled my Oktoberfest it'd been lagering for three months, and I didn't have to add yeast, just the bottling sugar.

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How about 6 months lagering -- think there will be enough active yeast to carbonate in the bottle? Had planned to buy a keg setup at the end of lagering but I lost all of my money on the stock market.

Milracing, based on your post, I believe you have some of the right ideas, but here is a bit of input:

-After primary fermentation and diacetyl rest, slowly cool (5dF per day) to lager temps (~34df) while keeping it in the primary fermenter.

-Transfer to the secondary fermenter and keep at lagering temperature for the chosen lagering time (I use about 7 days per 8 points of OG, so a 1.048 lager goes for 6 weeks).

-Then bottle and, if using corn sugar for priming, store at room temp for 3-4 weeks before refrigerating and drinking. (If using DME, LME or saved wort, store bottles at primary fermentation temps.) There is no need to add yeast as long as you don't lager for more than 8 weeks. I just bottled a 6-week-lagering lager w/o adding yeast and it carbed up fine in a couple weeks. If you lager for more than 2 months, just add 1/4 to 1/2 a pack of dry lager yeast per 5 gallons to the bottling bucket.

It's not recommended to lager in the bottle as some fermentation/yeast activity is still going on and you could have too much carbonation and/or bottle bombs. If you want to wash the yeast, do it from the primary as the yeast sediment from the secondary is less "viable" than the yeast from the primary.

Hope that helps.

Cool -- thanks, menschmaschine. I had arrived at the decision to use dry lager yeast but I was not sure how much to use.

Before too long I will be bottling my first lager, too, and so I find this thread very interesting!

Mine is lagering in a secondary at 40dF. I take a peek at it every now and then and there is almost no sediment/yeast at the bottom. Should there be?

I have heard, however, that one can indeed throw a small amount of dry yeast into the bottling bucket come bottling time if there is worry about not having enough yeast after secondary to carbonate.

Given how little yeast there seems to be in my secondary, maybe I do want to add a little extra yeast?

Cheers,
JWiC

jwic said:

Before too long I will be bottling my first lager, too, and so I find this thread very interesting!

Mine is lagering in a secondary at 40dF. I take a peek at it every now and then and there is almost no sediment/yeast at the bottom. Should there be?

I have heard, however, that one can indeed throw a small amount of dry yeast into the bottling bucket come bottling time if there is worry about not having enough yeast after secondary to carbonate.

Given how little yeast there seems to be in my secondary, maybe I do want to add a little extra yeast?

Cheers,
JWiC

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Is there very little sediment in your beer because it's still in suspension in the beer, or is it a very clear beer?

If you want to add some yeast at bottling, it certainly won't hurt the beer. What I have done is add about 1/3 package of dry nottingham yeast to the boiled and cooled priming solution right in the bottling bucket. Stir well, and then simply rack the beer into that. It works well, for those times I lagered 12 weeks.

Does anyone suggest doing a diactyl rest after primary is done if I went with the Narziss method of pitching my yeast around 46 degrees and raising to 50 over a few days? Can I just rack to a secondary and drop from 50 to 32-34 degrees for the lagering stage then bottle once lagering is complete?

fxdude said:

Does anyone suggest doing a diactyl rest after primary is done if I went with the Narziss method of pitching my yeast around 46 degrees and raising to 50 over a few days? Can I just rack to a secondary and drop from 50 to 32-34 degrees for the lagering stage then bottle once lagering is complete?

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It probably doesn't need a D-rest, but each yeast strain is different in its propensity to produce diacetyl and it also depends on the quantity of yeast pitched, yeast health/viability, etc. In any case, if you do a D-rest, don't wait until primary is done. Do the D-rest when primary fermentation is nearing completion.

Great, thanks for the advice, will probably skip the D-rest since I pitched 3.5 vials of yeast.

fxdude said:

Great, thanks for the advice, will probably skip the D-rest since I pitched 3.5 vials of yeast.

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Before skipping it, I suggest tasting for it.

Now, tasting for it isn't as easy as tasting for the "butter" flavor. In large amounts, diacetyl tastes like butter or buttered popcorn. But in very small amounts, it's more of a "oily" mouthfeel or a slickness on your tongue when sampling.

If you have ANY oily feeling, or any slickness in the mouthfeel, do a diacetyl rest as it will NOT get better, and will in fact get worse while lagering.

Ok, will definitely give it a taste, thanks again

I have some dry lager yeast (I'm not home so I
Can't check if it's nottingham). Would that work
Or should I go for the nottingham specifically?

Cheers,
JWiC

jwic said:

I have some dry lager yeast (I'm not home so I
Can't check if it's nottingham). Would that work
Or should I go for the nottingham specifically?

Cheers,
JWiC

Click to expand...

Nottingham is not lager yeast. It's ale yeast. But if you really need to add yeast to the bottling bucket for a lager, you could use Nottingham. Just use very little (~1/4 packet per 5 gallons).

I've returned home and I definitely have Nottingham which I could use.

It seems to me (as I've said in previous threads) that there is very little yeast still floatin' around in the secondary (I have very, very little sediment at the bottom of my secondary and it has now been in at 40dF for 6 weeks sitting perfectly still...).

Although it has most certainly reached FG, I thought that I may have originally underpitched given that I only used one vial of yeast and no starter.

So, please forgive my paranoia when I ask for the opinion of those more experienced than I... Do you guys honestly think there will be enough yeast in the secondary to carb it? Will adding a 1/4 (others have suggested 1/3) of additional yeast increase the threat of bottle bombs?

And, for the sake of argument, let's say there's NOT enough yeast in there as there should be. Will it still carb without the extra yeast or - heaven forbid - will it not carb properly AT ALL?

Hope this is all clear and thanks in advance for all the replies. It was fermenting for 4 weeks, lagering for 6; I most certainly do not want to mess things up now!!

Cheers,
JWiC

There is still yeast in suspension in your beer. As far as yeast goes, it should carb with what's already in there. It may take a little longer to carb, but it will still carb. The amount of yeast you originally added does not directly correlate (if at all) with how much yeast is in suspension post-fermentation.

If you still want to add yeast, you only need a little bit. It doesn't have to be exact. Think of it this way... you only need maybe 2 tiny particles of dried yeast per bottle. So, a 1/4 pack per 5 gallons should be plenty. The more you add, the more sediment there will be in the bottles. That's why if you don't add any, it should still carb (maybe take a little longer) and have little sediment in the bottles.