How much wort do you make for a starter?

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themack22

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My Homebrew store sold me a 500 ml flask, but a lot of places online are saying 1000-2000 ml's for a starter. I pitched the yeast in 450 ml of wort made with half a cup of light DME. Will I be good to go today? It's been 11 hours, probably won't brew for another 4-6 hours.
 
The size starter you need depends upon the original gravity of your wort and whether you are using ale or lager yeast. If you go to www.mrmalty.com you'll find a pitching calculator that may help you determine how big of a starter to make.

For big starters, you need to step up the starter - there are limits on how much yeast growth you will get with each step. Chris White and Jamial Zanisheff (spelling?) wrote a book called Yeast that you might enjoy reading.

Also, you don't have to use a flask to make a starter - I use a big Ball Jar, for example.

Any size starter you use will be better than not using a starter.
 
Should I brew next weekend when I have my sh*t together or should I go ahead and try and pitch this small starter?
 
Did you make sure to change the yeast production date to match the smack pack you have? How about the starter type?

IMO, a 500ml flask is pretty much useless. I have a 2L, 3L and 5L flask, plus stirplate (and stirbars of various sizes) to make starters in/with.

Also look to yeastcalc.com to make stepped starters for brews. I'll be doing that for this coming batch (on the 16th) going with a 1L then 1.25L starter on the stirplate. Cold crashing between. I'll get pretty much the same yeast colony size as I would with a 5.25L starter this way. Just takes more time, but uses far less DME. :D
 
Did you make sure to change the yeast production date to match the smack pack you have? How about the starter type?

That's what I was wondering.... sounds like an awful large starter for a 1.06 brew. OP, check all your parameters on MrMalty, that should give you a much more appropriate size starter for this beer. With week old yeast, in 5.25 gal of 1.062 wort, I get a starter size of 1.64L according to MrM.
 
you can use an old 2l soda bottle in the meantime, add some wort today and pitch in your finished wort tomorrow. not ideal but it would work. you wouldn't be able to decant using it so soon so consider that with your final volume
 
Brew today. You have a starter going... Which is more than most people do and great brews still come out of it. I wouldn't stress over it at all.
 
For 5.25 gal of 1.062 wort, growth factor in the middle, not using a stir plate but shaking regularly, you need 1 pk in 1.82L. With a stir plate you need 1 pk in 1.18L.

Confirms that a 2L flask really is the minimum size you should get/have. Even with a stirplate, you're better off having a 2L or 3L flask...
 
Yeah, it was only a few bucks, but I have no idea why my HB store would sell me a 500 ml flask with a rubber stopper when I said I needed stuff to make a starter with. It's pretty useless. Kinda pissed me off.

I am not going to brew today. Too much other stuff I need to get done.

So can I grow this small starter into a bigger one over the week and have something for next weekend? Is that what a stepped starter is?
 
themack22 said:
So can I grow this small starter into a bigger one over the week and have something for next weekend? Is that what a stepped starter is?

Yes... I suggest getting a larger flask though. If you get a 2L, then you can start with a .5L starter, let it finish, cold crash, decant spent starter, and add another 1.125L of starter on top of that yeast cake. Without a stirplate, and using intermittent shaking/swirling, you'll get the cell count needed for the batch (226 billion). OR, you could just do a 1.75L starter in a 2L flask and not have to step it up at all. :rockin:

I'd go to the HBS and try to return the mini-flask and get an adult size. :eek: I would also question why the person there sold it to you when it's nigh on useless for starters. At least for 5 gallon batches. Maybe for a 1 gallon batch it could work.
 
Be aware of the activity of the yeast when you're stepping a starter up as well.
They will go NUTS after the step. I have a 2L flask and if I do a 1L, decant, 1L stepping regimen on a stirplate the level of krausen is truly impressive.
 
Be aware of the activity of the yeast when you're stepping a starter up as well.
They will go NUTS after the step. I have a 2L flask and if I do a 1L, decant, 1L stepping regimen on a stirplate the level of krausen is truly impressive.

I've not [yet] stepped up a starter, so that's good to know. Although I do use fermcap in my starters to keep krausen under control.
 
I have the flask covered with aluminum foil...that's all I had. Should I get an airlock for the starter stage?
 
I have the flask covered with aluminum foil...that's all I had. Should I get an airlock for the starter stage?

No... You want gas exchange to happen. If you put an airlock on it, you'll only vent excess CO2 and not get any O2 in. I use one of the foam stoppers (made for flasks), but I was using a piece of sanitized foil before that. Just wrap it around so that it covers the opening and then goes lower. Things won't be able to float up under it, but air will enter/exchange past it.
 
Ok, so it's been 32 hours since I made the 500 ml starter. I probably won't brew until this weekend, so should I put this in the refrigerator until thursday then make a 2 liter starter with that yeast? It says on Mr. Malty I should go with 3.38 liters of starter! Seems like a lot...
 
Ok, so it's been 32 hours since I made the 500 ml starter. I probably won't brew until this weekend, so should I put this in the refrigerator until thursday then make a 2 liter starter with that yeast? It says on Mr. Malty I should go with 3.38 liters of starter! Seems like a lot...

If you are stalling between steps, put it in the refrigerator.

You also do not have to pitch the whole thing into the wort. You can ferment the final step then put the flask in the refrigerator. The yeast will drop to the bottom then you can pour off most of the beer, swirl up the rest to loosen the yeast and pour that into the wort.

Get or make a stirplate. It will allow you to make smaller starters, faster.
 
Ok, so it's been 32 hours since I made the 500 ml starter. I probably won't brew until this weekend, so should I put this in the refrigerator until thursday then make a 2 liter starter with that yeast? It says on Mr. Malty I should go with 3.38 liters of starter! Seems like a lot...

Yeah, cold crash, decant the wort and pitch the yeast into another starter. I'm not sure where you're getting your starter size from, but it seems a lot larger than what I got from MrM when I plugged in your numbers. Either way, you're on the right track, if you build up to the 2 L starter, you should have more than enough yeast.
 
Enter the information into the tool on yeastcalc.com. With the .5L first step you probably won't need as large a second step.

For using LME, you'll end up needing more. There's a formula floating arou d for the conversion ratio. I don't have it since I have no need for it. I only buy DME to use in my starters and haven't bought LME in well over 1.5 years.
 
Cold crashing in the fridge now. Will decant but it already cleared up a lot today, like when a beer finishes fermenting. Is that bad that I let it clear up in room temperature today?
 
O make 2l starter for wlp820 and after 48 hs only 240 billions cells. Its my second time whith WLP 820 and did not work again. Any experience with this yeast ?
 
One more question: If I am going to brew, say Saturday, should I leave this in the fridge and do my second step on Friday after work? Should I do TWO more steps just to be safe? I mean, I have the time...
 
Do as many steps as needed (via yeastcalc.com) to get the cell count needed. Without a stirplate you should plan at least 48 hours for the starter. I also plan 18-24 hours cold crash time on top of that for starters.

For example, I'm making a 1L starter tonight that will go onto the stirplate. Tomorrow night it will go into the fridge to cold crash. Thursday I'll add just over 1L of starter aftrr decanting tthe hr spent starter from the first round. Friday evening I'll put that one in the fridge to cold crash so that I can decant for the brewing on Saturday. Using the two starters will give me the yeast count I need and use less DME in the process. Otherwise I'd need a freakin huge starter for the batch.
 
According to yeastcalc.com even with 3 steps and intermittent shaking/aerating, I will only be at 155 bil.

So why don't people just buy two smack packs and pitch them? They're only 5-6 bucks. And why don't people just use dry yeast?

The 3 brews that I made with dry yeast took off and required me to use a blow-off.

This seems like a pain, but I guess if I had gotten a larger flask to begin with, I wouldn't be having this problem.
 
According to yeastcalc.com even with 3 steps and intermittent shaking/aerating, I will only be at 155 bil.

So why don't people just buy two smack packs and pitch them? They're only 5-6 bucks. And why don't people just use dry yeast?

The 3 brews that I made with dry yeast took off and required me to use a blow-off.

This seems like a pain, but I guess if I had gotten a larger flask to begin with, I wouldn't be having this problem.

You should have used dry yeast instead of 1056. Many other yeasts don't have an equivalent dry yeast, so in those cases you would need to use liquid. Belgian yeasts are a good example.
 
Stirplates make a HUGE difference. I can get far more cells with a stirplate and have the starter finish faster.

As mentioned, you have more variety with liquid yeasts. I use a few UK based yeast strains for all my brews. I also have them fully active quickly without issue with the combination of pure O2, nutrient in the boil and a proper sized colony being pitched.
 
I need a bigger flask and my problems will be solved. I'm going to figure something out in the next day or so. I am just going to pitch this slurry after cold crashing into a 2L something/flask/jar and let that do it's thing.
 
Yeah, gotta see what my budget will allow. Called a chemistry supply store near my work and a 2L flask is $60!! It's just glass!

NB has them for $22, but I kinda need it today. Don't really have time to schlepp down to the HBS. Any other ideas for the moment?
 
Take the time to go to the LHBS since it will be far cheaper than the lab place. Or order it onky with fast shipping. I would get a stirplate too. Most of the online vendors have.at least one listed. Just be sure to get one that lists being able to handle a 2-3L flask.
 
According to yeastcalc.com even with 3 steps and intermittent shaking/aerating, I will only be at 155 bil.

So why don't people just buy two smack packs and pitch them? They're only 5-6 bucks. And why don't people just use dry yeast?

The 3 brews that I made with dry yeast took off and required me to use a blow-off.

This seems like a pain, but I guess if I had gotten a larger flask to begin with, I wouldn't be having this problem.

If you build a stirplate you should be able to do it for less than $25. I had old computers so I made mine for $7.45.

Smack packs usually cost me $6.25 plus shipping from Northern Brewer or $7.99 for White Labs at my LHBS. So $12.50 - $16 or more for multiple fresh yeast. Making a starter only adds a couple of dollars.

Dry yeast is fine, but the selection of styles is very limited. Some people use only dry yeasts.

I have started freezing vials of yeast so I can get hundreds of brews out of a single yeast pack if I wanted to. (4 vials from the pack - 4 new vials from each frozen vial for 4 generations = 256 brews!) Cost = a couple of dollars of DME for each starter. Even less if I get some extra wort from a brew.
 
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