Pitching Starter the day after making wort

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WhiteDog87

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I made a starter for the first time and its taking longer than I expected for the yeast to drop out of suspension, so I can decant off the starter wort and pitch just the yeast. my wort is finished and cooled. Will it oxidize the wert if I dont Pitch my yeast right away? Or am I ok not pitching for 12-24 hours? Any one with experience with starters know how long the yeast typically take to drop out of solution in a starter ?
 
Depending on the type or beer and size of starter it is probably best to just pitch the whole starter. I say this because letting wort sit for that long without yeast is an invitation for bacteria or other baddies to take hold. Or maybe you have some packets of dry yeast available that would do the trick?
 
Decanting before pitching is really only necessary if you have one or both of a couple of things going on: 1) your starter is huge and would makeup a significant portion of the total volume of the beer 2) you're making a delicate lager or otherwise lower OG beer which may not have the flavor to mask any off tastes from the starter.

Weigh your options, but I would definitely not recommend waiting that long without pitching. I realize that folks who advocate a no-cool method think this is not a big deal and hey ... some fermentations go for up to 72+ hours without activity and still turn out fine, but I would not take that chance.
 
Any one with experience with starters know how long the yeast typically take to drop out of solution in a starter ?

This is highly dependent on they yeast and it flocculating characteristics. I've had some completely be done and dropped within 48 hours. Other have taken a week.
 
I made a starter for the first time and its taking longer than I expected for the yeast to drop out of suspension

Next time. Put your starter in the fridge the night before brew day, the yeast will drop to the bottom. Next morning pour off the top liquid but leave enough liquid to mix into the yeast so it can pour easily. Let come to room temp before pitching.

Will it oxidize the wert if I dont Pitch my yeast right away?

No it won't.


Or am I ok not pitching for 12-24 hours?

I have done this. No problem. Just make sure you follow sanitary measures along the way.


Another option is pitch the cooled starter, all of it, into your wort. That works very well too!

:mug:
 
My starter is 1800ml, i feel like thats a lot of crappy starter beer to toss into my fresh wort, but maybe not? I have 5 gallons of robust porter ready to ferment... Im going to pitch asap
 
That's a pretty average sized starter and only about 10% of your total volume. Plus a robust porter should have plenty of flavor to hide any minor off flavors contributed by the starter. Much of the starter's off flavors will get cleaned up in the main fermentation anyway if you give it enough time.

I think many people that have tried the decant and pitch method didn't know how long it would take. I know the first time I tried I was surprised and frustrated with how long it took. I don't think I've seen much written advice warning how long it might take. Live and learn.

The common case for decanting would be a 4-5 liter starter into a 1.040 Pilsner. Many folks seem to swear by the "just pitch the whole thing at high Krausen" method, but I doubt they are making 4-5 liter starters.
 
I would pitch the no starter pack or unfinished starter over waiting 24 hours. I may just be paranoid, but I just made a starter with the bottoms of a couple beers and stepped it once both with 15 minute boils. The starter never took and mold started growing after 3 days. So the point is that even when being really careful, wild stuff can still get in and only your yeast will prevent mold and other crap from taking over.
 
I thought I heard Jamil say in one of his podcasts that for lagers he puts his wort in the fridge and racks off the trub the next day before pitching. This removes more trub and allows the temp to stabilize to lager ferm temp. Of course he is very careful with sanitation.
 
Most of mine get to wait at least 12 hours and any lager (or anything really below 60) sits until morning so still less than 24 hours. My tap water during the summer is over 80 and even recirculating ice water through the IC is a long slow process when the air temps are 95degrees.

I'm not dumping in my starter wort unless I need to try and get a stuck ferment going with an actively going starter. I didn't spend an hour+ mashing and sparging to add in pilsner DME wort fermented without hops on a stir plate at 75degrees.

You'll get a feeling for which yeasts will drop clear in a day after finished and which ones will take a week in a fridge to drop clear.
 
I didn't spend an hour+ mashing and sparging to add in pilsner DME wort fermented without hops on a stir plate at 75degrees.

Thats exactly how i feel! I put a lot of time and effort into producing my beer, and It makes me very uneasy pitching a bunch of crappy dme beer into my baby!

Im still not very clear on how to go about the starter process. I went ahead and pitched the whole starter after most of the people on here advised me to do so, but I would much rather pitch just the yeast in the future (and the past).

I have been reading Jamil's yeast book and in his section on starters, it recommends pitching the whole starter if it is less than 5% of your total volume. However mine was more like 10% (1800ml) and I believe that size starter is pretty average for most 5 gallon fermentations. Another point he makes is that the higher attenuating, less flocculent yeast will still be in suspension in the starter after 12-24hrs, so in order to get these yeast in your beer you must pitch the entire starter.

Anyone think they can bring a little clarity to this?
 
You can make your starter two days in advance. give it 24 hours on the stir plate then cold crash it for 24 hours. this will allow the yeast to fall out of suspension and you can decant 90% of the starter wort. then let it rise back to room temperature and pitch it.
 
You can make your starter two days in advance. give it 24 hours on the stir plate then cold crash it for 24 hours. this will allow the yeast to fall out of suspension and you can decant 90% of the starter wort. then let it rise back to room temperature and pitch it.

This definatley makes sense for trying to turn a vial into enough yeast to ferment a 5 gallon batch which is useful, but I thought the point of making a starter was to get the yeast active before pitching, and chilling them will make them less active and more dormant.

Seems like you can't have your cake and eat it too. Or maybe its just picking which factors you feel will effect the out come of the beer the most, depending on style, gravity, etc. and then going with the procedures that will benefit your particular batch of beer the most. Whether it be very active fermentation with funky starter wort included, or less active yeast with less funky starter wort to affect flavor.
 
Thats exactly how i feel! I put a lot of time and effort into producing my beer, and It makes me very uneasy pitching a bunch of crappy dme beer into my baby!

Im still not very clear on how to go about the starter process. I went ahead and pitched the whole starter after most of the people on here advised me to do so, but I would much rather pitch just the yeast in the future (and the past).

I have been reading Jamil's yeast book and in his section on starters, it recommends pitching the whole starter if it is less than 5% of your total volume. However mine was more like 10% (1800ml) and I believe that size starter is pretty average for most 5 gallon fermentations. Another point he makes is that the higher attenuating, less flocculent yeast will still be in suspension in the starter after 12-24hrs, so in order to get these yeast in your beer you must pitch the entire starter.

Anyone think they can bring a little clarity to this?

I admit that I tend to decant most of my starters for the same reason you cite. I've just painfully learned how long it can take and plan accordingly. In your situation it was a tradeoff between risking contamination and risking some off flavors from the starter. I'd say that the latter risk is really low, especially given the kind of beer you're brewing. It could have taken you days to get to full flocculation.

I have the yeast book too and I didn't remember seeing that 5% advice. I had to look it up to see it in context. I wonder if he's talking more about a professional brewery setting. 5% of 5 gallons is slightly less than a liter and a liter is the minimum recommended starter size. That size should give 50% growth, so is probably more useful to ensure yeast health or possibly for a bigger beer and with multiple yeast packs to start. Playing with the starter calculator on mrmalty.com seems to show that anything above a 1.043 ale will call for larger than 1 liter starter or multiple yeast packs and a 1 liter starter. Seems like a single liter would be a small minority of all starters. Then consider what he said on his website: "I like to pitch starters while they're still very active and as soon as the bulk of reproduction is finished, usually within 12 to 18 hours. This is really convenient, because I can make a starter the morning of the brew day or the night before and it is ready to go by the time the batch of wort is ready. " Based on discussions I've seen on this, I bet a poll would show that most people don't bother to decant for the average case of a 2 liter starter on an Ale.

I think the comment about the less flocculent, higher attenuating yeast remaining behind might be assuming no force crashing. What page is that on?
 
This definatley makes sense for trying to turn a vial into enough yeast to ferment a 5 gallon batch which is useful, but I thought the point of making a starter was to get the yeast active before pitching, and chilling them will make them less active and more dormant.

Right, the yeast book discusses that tradeoff on p 138. Probably the main reason for a starter is ensuring yeast health, followed by propagation (increasing cell counts). The reasons for using the yeast at the height of activity seems like an extra assurance on health and a faster start. I imagine a very small portion might die when force crashing and they'll take longer to start because they're dormant.

Seems like you can't have your cake and eat it too. Or maybe its just picking which factors you feel will effect the out come of the beer the most, depending on style, gravity, etc. and then going with the procedures that will benefit your particular batch of beer the most. Whether it be very active fermentation with funky starter wort included, or less active yeast with less funky starter wort to affect flavor.

There are tons of tradeoffs in home-brewing. Maybe you could have your cake and eat it too if you could have a way of filtering off the yeast when they're at high krausen ;)
 
It seems like the best thing to do is to chill and decant after 12-18, at least until we figure out how to filter off the yeast at high krausen (good idea Hex), that would really be ideal.

I think a lot of people pitch there whole starter which is more ideal for the yeast, but I have a mental block that just wont let me be comfortable throwing dme in my oh so pure all grain beer :cross:
 
It seems like the best thing to do is to chill and decant after 12-18

Not sure just how much difference it will make, but the advice from the yeast book (also p. 138) is that you store the yeast in the starter vessel an additional 8-12 hours after reaching terminal gravity so they can build their glycogen reserves. I've always taken this to also mean don't start chilling until they've had enough time to build up their reserves. Since I'm not measuring my starter gravity, I usually just wait 3-4 days before I chill. And I chill only if I have to because sometimes it will be totally clear without having to drop temps. I typically give myself a whole week to build a decanted starter because I've had some take that long to clear.

I think a lot of people pitch there whole starter which is more ideal for the yeast, but I have a mental block that just wont let me be comfortable throwing dme in my oh so pure all grain beer :cross:

I've got the same mental block. However, in the few times I've pitched at high krausen (always with ~ 2L starters into 5 gallons) I've not noticed any off flavors.
 
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