jealous of dollhouse/my first AG was not as expected

not an unmitigated disaster, mind you, just more problems than i'd want in a first AG. had a tough time making a yeast starter last night and couldn't figure out if i'd have sufficiently viable yeast to pitch (fingers crossed). i decided to go ahead and brew at about 8:30-9ish, got my gear together, strapped on my headlamp and trucked outside. hit my mash temps spot on. sparged as directed (drain with vorlauf, add sparge water, stir, wait 5, drain) and fired up the burner on about 5.5gals. turned on the headlamp to discover i was well off my target color, 25+ L, and was probably in the low 20s. after boiling and cooling (which actually went really well with the help of a 200gpm fountain pump), i found that the OG is about 10points low (1.042, not 1.055). so it appears my oatmeal stout has turned itself into an oatmeal porter. and i'm never brewing in the dark again. any advice for pulling my efficiency out of the 60% neighborhood?

A complete recipie would help us figure this out.

But if it's just efficiency increase you need then...
How was your crush, did you get a decent PH in
your mash, did you sparge enough and at what temp?

At 5.5 gallons post boil, it sounds like you didn't sparge enough. With a 5 gallon post boil, you should start with about 6.25 and boil it down.

There are a lot of threads that discuss increasing efficiency and there are just as many opinions on it. Search for Batch Sparge Efficiency.

Get yourself some portable halogen work lights for Home Depot... you can't do this with flashlights.

recipe:

8lbs. 2-row
1lb 40-L crystal
0.75lbs flaked oats
0.40lbs. chocolate malt
0.40lbs. roasted

mash 45mins @ 158 (175 strike, 13qts.). drain. sparge @ 168 with 4.25gals.

the grain crush was done at the LHBS and they set the mill so i'm assuming that was ok. they also said not to worry about ph's in the tap water and other people i've talked to have said ph isn't really a worry here.

i think i might be leaning toward bobby m's explanation based on under-sparging.

not enough grain if you ask me. The porter in my secondary had another pound of 2-row, and about a pound more specialty grains. I am still newer to AG brewing, but for a stout that just seems like the low end for grain.

I think the undersparging and a somewhat light grainbill are the biggest reasons.

and just because the LHBS crushed it doesn't mean they did a great job. some do, some don't. a lot depends on whether the person crushing it brews or not. I hear stories about 'big city' brewshops with part-timers running the mill and screwing it up pretty badly.

158F is too high a mash temperature. The beta amylase will denature rapidly at that temperature and what you end up with is low efficiency and low fermentability of what you do get.

5.5 gallons to the boil is somewhat of a mystery. Did you leave a lot of wort in your mash tun? You put a total of 7.5 gallons in the tun and lost two when you probably should have lost closer to one gallon to absorption, etc. Can you tip your tun when draining to get more out?

I actually have to boil 7 gallons to end up with 5 in the fermenter.

I agree with David 42, 158 is too high. I do mine at 153-154.

You have plenty of grain ( though a little lite in color) so I would guess that either

1) bad crush
2) under sparged
3) bad crush

If you want to do 158 I would step mash, say 150 for 30 then infuse to get 158-160 for 30.

At 158 you're going to have a sweet tasting beer.

responses: my understanding is that 158degF is the upper threshold for mash temps --i was being a sheep and following the beersmith-generated mash sched. there was some liquid left in the mash tun but probably not the 3/4 to 1gal that seems to have been lost. i'll just have to pay more attention to: total grain bill, sparge amounts, and mash temps on the next brew day.

Just remember, it's a learning experience and it will still be beer. RDWHAHB

david_42 said:

158F is too high a mash temperature. The beta amylase will denature rapidly at that temperature and what you end up with is low efficiency and low fermentability of what you do get.

Click to expand...

It's not very often that I disagree with you David (been a long time), but I don't think the fault in efficiency should be pointed at mash temperature. I don't believe you can get a .013 difference for 4 degrees of difference and if so, that would have to be on the MAX side.

Also, he's brewing a Stout. He wants those unfermentables in he end product as that's what makes it so thick, chewy and nice. I mash all of my Stouts and Porters at 158 and always hit my gravities.

I'd point my finger at the crush. That CAN bring your efficiencies down by the amount described above. I'd even be willing to bet he bought pre-crushed grain.

He also undersparged.

Cheers!

yeah i'm not worried about it. it just went from an oatmeal stout to a session brown porter. right now it's just ticking away in the closet and i'll see it in a week. at the same time i'd like to be able to make fully black stouts in the future and want to learn as much as i can from these mistakes.

You left sugars behind in the mash tun.

Next time (and this is only what I would do...):

Make sure your sparge water is somewhere around the 170-180 range.
Do two sparges instead of one. This will double the effect of the rinsing action.
Don't set to boil until you've got closer to 7 gallons.

The fact that you ended up with only 5.5 preboil, boiled off only a half gallon and still had 1.042 OG tells me at least that the crush is probably good.

I'd say another good 2 - 2.5 gallons of sparge at 180 degrees would have washed out more sugars.

FWIW, if you get to a 68% efficiency, you're probably in the comapny of a lot of good homebrewers. Get your efficiency to its peak, then adjust your recipes for your system.

Oh...and enjoy that porter. Sounds great. :rockin:

FWIW:

Stouts and Porters aren't different because of the original gravity. Remember, regular Guinness Dry Stout right around 4% abv (1.04 or so?). Stouts are usually stouts because of the addition of roasted barely. Porters don't have that.

So, you're still brewing a stout.

Also, next time you're gonna make a starter, start at least 2 days before you brew so you can step it up and it has ample time to reach high activity.

With a 158F mash, you also better hope your thermo isn't reading even a degree low because you are on the border. The problem I've found relying on Beersmith and the generic "high body" mash instructions is that it doesn't take the unfermentable part of your grain bill into account. I'm going to predict a pretty high FG on this thing, something like 1.022.

Are you by chance using a recatangular cooler for your MLT? I've noticed a similar grain absorbtion or otherwise loss of wort. It's not deadspace exactly, but a taller grainbed helps runnoff more wort. Another option you had was to add a gallon of hot mashout water prior to the first runnings.

PseudoChef said:

FWIW:

Stouts and Porters aren't different because of the original gravity. Remember, regular Guinness Dry Stout right around 4% abv (1.04 or so?). Stouts are usually stouts because of the addition of roasted barely. Porters don't have that.

So, you're still brewing a stout.

Also, next time you're gonna make a starter, start at least 2 days before you brew so you can step it up and it has ample time to reach high activity.

Click to expand...

i was pretty light on the roasted barley so i don't really have any problem calling it a porter (see bjcp style 12.) my airlock is ticking pretty quick right now so it looks/sounds like the starter did ok.

Bobby_M said:

Are you by chance using a recatangular cooler for your MLT? I've noticed a similar grain absorbtion or otherwise loss of wort. It's not deadspace exactly, but a taller grainbed helps runnoff more wort. Another option you had was to add a gallon of hot mashout water prior to the first runnings.

Click to expand...

i'll take a whirl with better mashout/sparge technique on my next brew. i'm more than willing to brew a few more one-off beers trying to sort out a process that works. thanks to all the respondents for the tips and advice.