Belgian Saison Extract Recipe

First time posting, but I've used a lot of great recipes from this site, so I figure when I have a good one it's time to contribute.

I made the following Saison recipe this summer and it turned out fantastic, so I thought I would share.

5 gallon batch

1 lb Caramel 40L (Steep)

6 lbs Breiss Golden Light DME
2 lbs Table Sugar (sucrose)

1 oz Centennial 9.2 - 60 min
1 oz Hallertau 3.6 - 30 min
1 oz Czech Saaz 3.9 - 10 min
1 oz Bitter Orange Peel - 5 min

Wyeast 3724 - Belgian Saison

Came out at about 7.6%.

When bottling, I went with more priming sugar than I normally use (7 oz dextrose). It turned out really crisp and I think that had something to do with it. Great beer.

I shouldn't knock it until I've tried it, but it seems like a lot of Crystal, and a lot of sugar (almost 30% of the sugars).

You probably should add the ferment temp for a Saison yeast. It can make a lot of difference to the flavor.

Thought the sugar might be a lot, but it really wasn't.

Fermentation was right around 78 deg F.

Thanks for posting, I've tried brewing a modified version of this recipe this weekend and will follow up here if I have a good result.

Was really impressed with this one, although the yeast you used was 3711 French Saison.

Crazy how I just know these things...

uncle_jimbo said:

First time posting, but I've used a lot of great recipes from this site, so I figure when I have a good one it's time to contribute.

I made the following Saison recipe this summer and it turned out fantastic, so I thought I would share.

5 gallon batch

1 lb Caramel 40L (Steep)

6 lbs Breiss Golden Light DME
2 lbs Table Sugar (sucrose)

1 oz Centennial 9.2 - 60 min
1 oz Hallertau 3.6 - 30 min
1 oz Czech Saaz 3.9 - 10 min
1 oz Bitter Orange Peel - 5 min

Wyeast 3724 - Belgian Saison

Came out at about 7.6%.

When bottling, I went with more priming sugar than I normally use (7 oz dextrose). It turned out really crisp and I think that had something to do with it. Great beer.

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I'm kicking around some ideas for my next saison, which I wanted to be a bit bigger. Brewed a session saison about a month ago, used 3711 French. It's in secondary now with sage and orange peel.

I'm going to pin this thread for reference. Thanks for sharing!

brewing this myself right now (sans Hallertau hops). Hopefully it all turns out well

wormraper said:

brewing this myself right now (sans Hallertau hops). Hopefully it all turns out well

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I'm sure Jimbo and I would be glad to give you our opinions on it when it's ready!

What part of T-town are you at?

hasbrew said:

I'm sure Jimbo and I would be glad to give you our opinions on it when it's ready!

What part of T-town are you at?

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HEEEYYYY, another Tucsonan Brewer!!!. I live up by mountain view HS (cortaro and Thornydale area)

EDIT: Just finished pitching the yeast and stuck the fermentor in the warmest room of the house. Now lets pray it won't stall since my LHBS doesnt' carry Wyeast and the only saison is the 565 (3724) dupont strain.

DAMN!!! first time using 565 saison yeast. talk about a VIGOROUS fermentation. less than 3 hours after pitching it's been going hardcore with my airlock gurgling like nuts

Uncle Jimbo - thanks for the post and I'm going to get this one teed up for my next brew. So far, most everything I've done have been the Brewers Best kits that have EVERYTHING spelled out. I just wanted to clarify some of the cook times and temps.

For the 1 lb. Carmel Malt steep, is that a typical 20 minutes at around 155/160F?

From there I'm guessing you bring to a boil, and then stir in the DME and sucrose.

And then it looks like you continue the boil following the hop addition times you have listed.

Being new at this I'd hate to waste the time and ingredients becuase I misunderstood the process. I really appreicate your (or anyone else's) clarification.

Thanks!!

The steeping time an temperature aren't real critical. The recipe instructions I used to follow suggest 30 minutes at 150 but somewhere between 10 and 60 minutes at 100 to 200 degrees will likely get your extraction.

With steeping, all you are doing is dissolving the sugars off the grain. Lots of water, and high temp, and it should be very quick. Try keeping it below 170 F. Supposedly you can start leaching tannins out of the grain; personally, I don't think you would notice, so no need to be anal about being strict to temperature and worrying about overshooting the max temperature.

StLouBrew said:

Uncle Jimbo - thanks for the post and I'm going to get this one teed up for my next brew. So far, most everything I've done have been the Brewers Best kits that have EVERYTHING spelled out. I just wanted to clarify some of the cook times and temps.

For the 1 lb. Carmel Malt steep, is that a typical 20 minutes at around 155/160F?

From there I'm guessing you bring to a boil, and then stir in the DME and sucrose.

And then it looks like you continue the boil following the hop addition times you have listed.

Being new at this I'd hate to waste the time and ingredients becuase I misunderstood the process. I really appreicate your (or anyone else's) clarification.

Thanks!!

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But add half or a third of the DME at the start of the boil, then the rest at the end (between 10 and 0). It will keep it lighter.

So I've had this in the secondary now for a couple of weeks. My cook date was 12/1 so I'll probably be bottling this around New Year's Day. My OG on this was a whopping 1.080. Probably not a record breaker, but certainly the highest OG I've had for any of my batches so far. Can't wait to see how this is going to turn out.. but I'm going to have to!

For anyone who's done this recipe, do you have any record of your OG/FG? Mine should be about ready for bottling (coming up on 4 weeks total fermentation) but when I checked it the other day it was at 1.040, which would put me at about 5.25 ABV... I'm guessing that's probably low.

Thanks!

Calder said:

I shouldn't knock it until I've tried it, but it seems like a lot of Crystal, and a lot of sugar (almost 30% of the sugars).

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gotta agree with both of those observations. traditionally saisons don't have any crystal in them at all. i like to keep my sugars below 20%.

in case someone is looking for suggestions: chances are good that the extract already contains some crystal. i would drop the crystal entirely, bring the sugar down to 1.0-1.25 pounds (or whatever gets you to 15-20%), and increase the extract to get your desired gravity. if you want to mix it up a bit try using some wheat extract along with your regular extract.

wormraper said:

DAMN!!! first time using 565 saison yeast. talk about a VIGOROUS fermentation. less than 3 hours after pitching it's been going hardcore with my airlock gurgling like nuts

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nice! did it stall? that's been my experience with the Dupont strain - ridiculously strong initial fermentation, then dies down without finishing the job (well, at least not immediately). but it's crazy - one day you've got a hurricane going on in there, the next day it's dead as a door nail.

StLouBrew said:

For anyone who's done this recipe, do you have any record of your OG/FG? Mine should be about ready for bottling (coming up on 4 weeks total fermentation) but when I checked it the other day it was at 1.040, which would put me at about 5.25 ABV... I'm guessing that's probably low.

Thanks!

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OG should be around 1.075. If you are now at 1.040, it is very sweet and about 4.5% abv. I'm guessing this should end up around 1.010-1.015.

I've never used that yeast, but I believe it likes high temps, and can stall and drop out if it doesen't get them. I believe Dupont ferments at 90 F. Warm it up (not necesarily to 90; maybe 80) and try rousing the yeast gently. If that doesen't work, you should try another yeast. 1.040 is way too high to finish.

Being unfamiliar with liquid yeasts, could you point out a nice cheap dry yeast that would have the same effect Looking forward to trying this recipe as it means I do NOT need to have the fermenter in a swamp cooler

skitter said:

Being unfamiliar with liquid yeasts, could you point out a nice cheap dry yeast that would have the same effect Looking forward to trying this recipe as it means I do NOT need to have the fermenter in a swamp cooler

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Belle Sasion dry yeast workd for my last Sasion
http://www.danstaryeast.com/system/files/pdfs/tds-belle-saison-english_0.pdf?download=1

The batch before that I used Wyeast 3711 French Saison... which worked well also.

But I had a much different recipe,,
2 lbs Pilsner Malt (2-row)
1.50 lbs White Wheat
0.50 lbs CaraMunich Malt
0.50 lbs Flaked Oats
0.7 oz. NZ Motueka@FWH
0.7 oz. EKG @FWH
4 lbs Pilsen DME
0.7 oz. EKG @30 min
1.25 oz. EKG @15 min
1/2 tsp crushed black pepper @5 min
1 lbs Local Organic Honey @5 min

I have to use Extract + steeping, not near enough space for an All Grain setup, nor the know how, I'm keeping with Extract brewing until we get our new house and when I have somebody local I can go see how it's done, trying to find brewing buddies in the area.

I changed (for a 2.5g batch) to 4lb LME and .5lb table sugar in my recipe, will have to give it a go here soon

skitter said:

I have to use Extract + steeping, not near enough space for an All Grain setup, nor the know how, I'm keeping with Extract brewing until we get our new house and when I have somebody local I can go see how it's done, trying to find brewing buddies in the area.

I changed (for a 2.5g batch) to 4lb LME and .5lb table sugar in my recipe, will have to give it a go here soon

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You have to be careful about statements about your ability to do all grain and the space required. I brew all grain with the same pot that I used for extract but with a smaller batch size so I can do a full volume boil.

The only thing that all grain really requires over extract is the ability to bring a quantity of water to a precise temperature. If you are already doing steeping grains, the process is so similar that a bystander might not even notice the difference. I do 2 1/2 gallon batches in my 5 gallon pot by doing it BIAB. No big mash tun required, no hot liquor tank, no brewing stand. It's fun and easy to do all grain that way.

I'm doing 2.5g batches in a 4g pot. My concern is for all the reading I have been doing on all grain there is still quite a bit I keep getting more and more confused on. Until I have the ability to watch it being done, I'm happy with what I have been able to create so far

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Home Brew mobile app

skitter said:

I'm doing 2.5g batches in a 4g pot. My concern is for all the reading I have been doing on all grain there is still quite a bit I keep getting more and more confused on. Until I have the ability to watch it being done, I'm happy with what I have been able to create so far

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Home Brew mobile app

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OK, I find some items that still confuse me too but that doesn't stop me from brewing. In simple terms, to all grain brew you have to bring a quantity of water to a specific temperature. You put milled grains in that water, making sure that there are sufficient base malts to convert (I used a recipe for that part). At the end of the mash time, you separate the grains from the wort and boil it with some hops, then chill and add yeast and you have made beer. All the rest is refinement. If you want to try it in a simple way, send me a message.

Done, hopefully it's not too much all at once, help is appreciated

Calder said:

OG should be around 1.075. If you are now at 1.040, it is very sweet and about 4.5% abv. I'm guessing this should end up around 1.010-1.015.

I've never used that yeast, but I believe it likes high temps, and can stall and drop out if it doesen't get them. I believe Dupont ferments at 90 F. Warm it up (not necesarily to 90; maybe 80) and try rousing the yeast gently. If that doesen't work, you should try another yeast. 1.040 is way too high to finish.

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Thanks Calder - I think you're on the mark with this. I went to the Wyeast web site and and for the the 3624 Saison this is what they say "This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 S.G. Fermentation will finish, given time and warm temperatures. Warm fermentation temperatures, at least 90°F (32°C), or the use of a secondary strain can accelerate attenuation"

I'm hoping heat will do the trick. Right now I have the carboy wrapped in a small electric blanket set on low. Going to monitor the temps closely and then see if I'm making the remaining yeast happy.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if other comments on here about reducing the sugar in the recipe aren't also on the mark. My 1.080 OG seems way high and probably too much for a lot of yeasts to chew through.

Thanks!

I wouldn't use 3724 again. It is a pain. I really like 566.

the Dupont strain is notorious for getting stuck somewhere around 1.035-1.040. some folks ramp up the heat and wait. i've had great success adding 3711 to finish it off. i don't have the patience to wait a month or longer while that yeast decides to get back to work.

From Wyeast's own site.

This strain is the classic farmhouse ale yeast. A traditional yeast that is spicy with complex aromatics, including bubble gum. It is very tart and dry on the palate with a mild fruitiness. Expect a crisp, mildly acidic finish that will benefit from elevated fermentation temperatures. This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 S.G. Fermentation will finish, given time and warm temperatures. Warm fermentation temperatures, at least 90°F (32°C), or the use of a secondary strain can accelerate attenuation.

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I think the strain is great for Saison's but it is just to much of a pain to deal with.

I gave up on the Wyeast 3724. I moved the carboy into a bathroom that had a space heater cranked to the max and also wrapped a heating pad around the carboy. The thing began bubbling away nicely again. After 4-5 days I did a quick check of the gravity and it barely dropped at all. Other threads suggest that it could take several weeks at this temp to finish.

I just re-pitched some Wyeast 3711 today. It should work faster and at lower temps. I'm already in the dog house for spending a bunch on a kegging setup. If I'd burn the house down, I'd never get to make beer again...

I think you moved it to the secondary too soon. You don't want to move a beer out of the primary fermenter until it has reached it's final gravity. You didn't leave enough yeast to finish the fermentation. I am sure that is part of the problem. You don't really even need to secondary.

holy crap!!! THIS was the Saison recipe I used to make. I'm back to brewing and wanted to go grab the ingredients at my LHBS this week to brew it up.
I remember this being utterly fantastic if you let it bottle condition for 4-6 months as it was such a high ABV (I always got about 8.6% when brewing with 3711)... welp, back to my LHBS now that I got the ingrdient list

sweetcell said:

nice! did it stall? that's been my experience with the Dupont strain - ridiculously strong initial fermentation, then dies down without finishing the job (well, at least not immediately). but it's crazy - one day you've got a hurricane going on in there, the next day it's dead as a door nail.

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a few years too late, but here goes. I looked at my brewing book notes and no it didn't stall.
at the time I was living in a small 1980s house with the insulation of tissue paper in Arizona, brewing during June/July.... and only having a swamp cooler and no A/C... getting it to 80 degrees was ZERO problem, and I put it in the alcove that had no ducting gonig to it and wrapped the brew pale in blankets. According to my notes I detected brewing temps of 87 degrees.... so no, it did not stall lol.. it ended up at roughly 1.010-1.011

I brewed subsequent batches with 3711 because I wanted to brew during winter or spring, and it would finish out at 1.000 or 1.001 every...effing...time. It was a brutally dry brew with a slight fuesol taste to it with the 3711, and less peppery spice, but was so much easier to work with.

with the 3711 I found bottle conditioning it for 4-6 months blended the flavors and made it sooooooooooooo much more smooth and got rid of all fuesol tastes