Advice request: Belgian Trippel, sort of

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jefro

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This is a batch of (mostly) leftovers, so bear with me

name: either Trippel Brown or Trippel Bypass

batch size: 5.0gal

5lb light DME
4lb amber DME
1lb carapils
1.5lb amber candi syrup

2oz Kent Goldings, 60m
2oz Kent Goldings, 30m

2xWLP500

math results from BeerSmith:
OG: 1.086
est FG: 1.014
IBU: 19.5
SRM: 18.6 (yes, darker than most trippels)
ABV: 9.6% :drunk:

I have never brewed a Trippel before. Any advice? If this looks good, my shopping list is just hops, candi, carapils, and yeast.

thanks :mug:
 
1.086 yikes!! I see that you are pitching two yeast vials which is a must. One would definitely not do it without a big starter. To hit that FG make sure you aerate the crap out of it before pitching and keep the temp where it needs to be. Everything else looks good.
 
Thanks kblankenship11. Temp will indeed be an issue, as I live on the coast and it has been in the 50s here for the last few days. Current plan is to place fermentation vessel in a large tub full of water and use an aquarium heater.
 
that won't taste like a tripel (too much crystal), maybe a belgian dark strong. if you want a tripel, just use light extract & sucrose. ditch the carapils either way, its already in the extract & unnecessary
 
You'd want to use pilsen extract for a tripel. I'd drop the candi syrup, sub in a bunch of "c" hops and go for a big IPA/amber. Or keep the grain bill the same, up the ibus, & call it a dark belgian ipa. Or jus friggin' brew it as is and see what happens!

But yeah, pitch LOTS of yeast and aerate/oxygenate the heck out of it.
 
Thanks all - will ditch the carapils, though I'm still hoping to use the rest of the amber DME in my cabinet. I don't think I have ever tasted a Belgian Dark Strong, but it does sound quite interesting.

Dark Belgian IPA.. for some reason I have a feeling a strong hop profile would not work well with Trappist yeast. Anyone tried this?
 
I have a feeling a strong hop profile would not work well with Trappist yeast. Anyone tried this?

A lot of commercial breweries have, just look up "Belgian IPA".

I don't think it works well at all, I think they clash, and I've tried 4 or 5 different commercial examples, but a lot of people seem to like them.
 
belgian IPAs can work with some belgian yeast, but i wouldnt with 500, its too fruity

you've never had a quad?
 
that won't taste like a tripel (too much crystal), maybe a belgian dark strong. if you want a tripel, just use light extract & sucrose. ditch the carapils either way, its already in the extract & unnecessary

Just trolling through this morning. Somewhat new to this hobby. Got seven batches done....5 original recipes....and I've had the question for a while. I was under the impression that dextrine carapils was a must for a lot of brews...but you are saying that its already in DME?
 
Just trolling through this morning. Somewhat new to this hobby. Got seven batches done....5 original recipes....and I've had the question for a while. I was under the impression that dextrine carapils was a must for a lot of brews...but you are saying that its already in DME?

yup, already in DME. carapils is never a must tho and is actually rarely ever needed.
 
Thanks all - will ditch the carapils, though I'm still hoping to use the rest of the amber DME in my cabinet. I don't think I have ever tasted a Belgian Dark Strong, but it does sound quite interesting.

Dark Belgian IPA.. for some reason I have a feeling a strong hop profile would not work well with Trappist yeast. Anyone tried this?

Fair enough, I actually didn't think about the yeast when I said that.
 
After too much work last week, I am finally ordering ingredients. I'm making a few slight changes based on info from this thread (thanks!) and other research as well as availability of ingredients. I have never done a starter before, but I understand the process (thanks John Palmer!) & am ready for the challenge.

I reduced the candi to 1 lb - for the simple reason that it is sold in 1lb increments and this beer is already expensive - and chose clear over amber.

batch size: 5.0gal

5lb light DME
4lb amber DME
1lb clear candi syrup

2oz Kent Goldings, 60m
2oz British Fuggles, 15m

1xWLP500, using a 1/2gal starter

I plan to start it around 70 to make sure it gets moving, then bring it down to 66 or so for a few days, then slowly bring it back up to 70. I will definitely use a blowoff tube, which means I need to wait a week or two until my carboy is free. (How does one do a blowoff tube with a pail?)

Ambient temp where I live is in the low 60s and getting cooler. I brew in an outside closet, so I plan to place the carboy in a large tub and use an aquarium heater to maintain temp.

For what it's worth, my idea of heaven is based on Anderson Valley Brewing Co. Brother David's Tripple Abbey Style Ale (the brewery is close to local for me). I taste a bit of citrus in it, but I'm not ready to go there just yet. I have a dream of doing a vanilla version at some point.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice
 
if you haven't already ordered the ingredients, i wouldnt buy the clear candi. save the money & use sucrose. if you wanna use candi syrup, go with the dark as its a better fit for your malt bill anyway. or make ur own: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/ or https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/candi-syrup-experiment-trying-clone-d2-220882/

also, i would reduce the fuggles. 2oz is a lot @15mins for something not meant to be hoppy (unless you want it to be, in which case i'd use a diff hop). plus they kinda taste like dirt, which wouldnt meld well with this

unless u have a stirplate, 0.5gal starter is a bit underpitched for this. check mrmalty for proper pitch rates. lastly, I would not pitch @70 and drop to 66. with a beer this big its always best to start a lil lower and let it ramp up. it won;t have any problem starting in the low 60s
 
if you haven't already ordered the ingredients, i wouldnt buy the clear candi. save the money & use sucrose. if you wanna use candi syrup, go with the dark as its a better fit for your malt bill anyway. or make ur own: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/ or https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/candi-syrup-experiment-trying-clone-d2-220882/

Interesting! I have a good local source for organic cane sugar - it hadn't occurred to me to do this, but I definitely will.

also, i would reduce the fuggles. 2oz is a lot @15mins for something not meant to be hoppy (unless you want it to be, in which case i'd use a diff hop). plus they kinda taste like dirt, which wouldnt meld well with this

Very interesting indeed. I have only used Fuggles once and thought it was very much like Goldings. I don't want the beer to be hoppy at all - I'll reduce to 1oz.

unless u have a stirplate, 0.5gal starter is a bit underpitched for this. check mrmalty for proper pitch rates. lastly, I would not pitch @70 and drop to 66. with a beer this big its always best to start a lil lower and let it ramp up. it won;t have any problem starting in the low 60s

Got it - I'll increase that to 1gal, will check with mrmalty, and can definitely start it lower as it is getting cool here already.

thanks!
 
Just wanted to post that I found a great article on homemade candi sugar on our very own HBT wiki: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/How_to_make_Candi_Sugar (thanks to Ó Flannagáin, Orfy, Bradsul, and Belgybrewer)

Switched to Willamette from Fuggles, 1.5 lbs of homemade candi, 1 gallon starter with WPL500 and Fermaid K.

If the starter takes off Friday I should be able to brew Sunday, I hope. Should I pitch just the slurry?
 
I have a Belgian triple in my secondary at the moment it also was a bit high in SG 1.095. I doubled the yeast initially pitched and I was wondering if I should add some more? If I do add some more should I add the same WLP530 already used or toss in some WLP715 Champagne yeast? Or should I just let it sit in the secondary for a few months? It's been in secondary for a month-ish now. I was going to add the Champagne yeast a week before I bottled. Is the pre-bottling yest addition necessary? My first Triple and I foolishly keep reading about others woes with them not fully fermenting and not carbonating up in the bottle.
 
Just wanted to post that I found a great article on homemade candi sugar on our very own HBT wiki: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/How_to_make_Candi_Sugar (thanks to Ó Flannagáin, Orfy, Bradsul, and Belgybrewer)

Switched to Willamette from Fuggles, 1.5 lbs of homemade candi, 1 gallon starter with WPL500 and Fermaid K.

If the starter takes off Friday I should be able to brew Sunday, I hope. Should I pitch just the slurry?

Yes, just the slurry. So let it ferment out then cold crash it so the yeast settles and decant the starter beer off the top then dump the rest into your cooled wort.
 
I have a Belgian triple in my secondary at the moment it also was a bit high in SG 1.095. I doubled the yeast initially pitched and I was wondering if I should add some more? If I do add some more should I add the same WLP530 already used or toss in some WLP715 Champagne yeast?

only way to know if you need more yeast is to take a gravity reading. adding champagne yeast won't help, its only really useful for carbing beer as it struggles with the more complex sugars that would be left at this point


I was going to add the Champagne yeast a week before I bottled. Is the pre-bottling yest addition necessary?

usually its not necessary unless its been sitting a long time or close to its alcohol tolerance. should be fine without it, but it won't hurt if you already got it
 
Project update:

I made a big starter (1.060) with one vial of WPL500. It took 48 hrs to get going (see https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/starter-not-starting-359168/#post4474791) and never did build up a krausen, just little moving islands of bubbles on top. It happily bubbled for 2 days at about 68 degrees, and now seems to have quieted down. As the week has started now, I may not be able to brew for another 5 days, which opens up some options.

I think I used over half a pound of DME in it (over 2 cups), and I may have miscalculated my original amount - I have 5lbs light DME and probably 2 to 2.5 lbs of amber DME, plus 1.5 lbs of sugar that I plan to invert into candi before starting. That puts my OG down to 1.073 and thus only about 8.2% ABV, still a big beer but not quite a trippel - maybe, as dcp27 mentioned earlier in this thread, a Belgian strong (or dark strong). Or, I could make a quick order to morebeer and obtain some extra-light LME and then brew a real trippel, which sounds very appealing. I'll decide later today.

In any case, now that the starter is winding down I'm going to crash it in the fridge probably starting tonight, and then on the day of brewing I'll decant, warm to room temp, and pitch just the slurry. I have been warned to have at least 1 cup on hand - so if I don't think I can get a full cup, I'll just order another vial. The slurry without crashing looks like maybe 1/2 cup right now.

(Why morebeer instead of LHBS? I don't have a LHBS within 2 hrs drive, and they deliver within 2 days - great shop. And I'm very lucky. If I did have a LHBS I'd be broke by now.)
 
I'm playing around with Brewer's Friend and plugged in my recipe. It does seem to qualify as a slightly dark Trippel, which is nice, although the flavor from the yeast I think is most important - I don't care that much about the ranking.

What did catch my eye, though is the high final gravity predicted. BF tells me that I'll have OG around 1.075 and FG around 1.017. Does that mean the final beer will be overly sweet? Is it due to the carapils in the DME? And for next time, if I use LME instead, will the result be drier?

I understand I could dry it out a bit by adding more sugar, but I already have 1.5lbs in there, 17% of the fermentables - I am loathe to add any more.

thanks
 
another 0.5lb sugar wouldnt hurt, but the calculator likely just used the average attenuation of the strain, not calculated it so it may not be accurate. the hang up is the extract, its just not as fermentable as AG can be, so i dunno if you'll get much lower (i'd say around 80%).
 
Ok, thanks - I'll probably throw in another 0.5lb of invert sugar (homemade candi).

It always confused me that adding more sugar would "dry out" the beer to a lower FG, until I realized what is going on - more sugar means higher ABV, which means a lower FG. So the same absolute amount of residual, non-fermentable sugar is still in the beer, but the overall gravity is lower due to the increased alcohol. Do I have that right?

I love a good complex tripel, so if this one doesn't work out because it is extract-only, that is yet another reason to move up to all grain. :D
 
Finally brewed!

Final recipe:
5lbs light DME
2.5lbs amber DME
1.5 lbs invert sugar (cane juice reduced to syrup with 1T lemon juice)

60 minute boil:
2oz Wilammette (60 mins)
2oz Kent Golding (15 mins)
1 whirfloc tablet (15 mins)

WPL500 starter

cooled to room temp (72) after about 45 minutes in a cool bath
pitched about 1/3 gallon starter, also at 72 (had poured off clear liquid)

OG: 1.080, both before and after pitch

primary placed in a large bucket filled with water at about 65, with a blowoff tube

Notes: darker color than I had expected, probably due to using evaporated cane juice for the syrup rather than processed table sugar, but all in all close to the same color as my personal target beer (Anderson Valley's Brother David's Triple). The wort is noticeably thick and rich, and tastes excessively hoppy and a bit bitter, as expected. I have never used that much hops before, but I understand the malt flavors will come out and the hops will recede over time.

Next steps:
Watch the blowoff tube.
Keep ambient at about 66 for now, letting it rise to 70 later in the week.
Switch to a standard airlock when krausen subsides.
Rack to a glass secondary when gravity gets down in the 1.020 range, which I expect in 3 weeks or so.
Age in secondary for several months, or as long as I can stand it.

As it happens, I didn't take a single picture! :eek: but will try to get a shot of the wort if I ever have to take the lid off, or at least when I rack next month.

Now, I need to plan what to make when my primary is free again... something that will age a bit faster than a tripel!

thanks again to everyone for advice
 
At Brewer's Friend, the FG is based on the yeast's average attenuation. You can override the value if you want to. There are number of factors that go into calculating FG (mash temps, yeast health, fermentation temp, nature of ingredients...).. so for now that is left to the humans.
 
larrybrewer - yup, definitely. Mine are almost always different from expectations (usually higher = less attenuation).

Mine is bubbling away nicely now, no volcano action, but it has also been quite cool - keeping it at 64-66 as that is the ambient temp. I'll need to buy an aquarium heater to get it higher than that & will probably do so later this week, but for now as long as it is going I'm happy. I'll keep a blowoff tube on it for a while yet.

One thing that worries me is that I may have over-hopped it. I looked at a few other Tripel recipes and most have 2-3oz of hops total, and Charlie Papazian's only has 1.5oz bittering hops. Mine has 2oz Wilammette bittering and 2oz Kent Goldings flavor, so I'm worried it will be too floral for a Tripel. Also aware that it will mellow over time, so I'm not too worried. It sure smells nice in the fermenter!
 
Brewed 1 week ago, down to 1.030 (from 1.080). It has been holding at 65 degrees or so day and night, so has been very steady, and tastes and smells fantastic. It got cold last night, though, and bucket is down to 54 deg. In the house warming up now, and I'll rack to secondary today (rousing the yeast) and will keep it above 65 from here on - need to buy that aquarium heater :)
 
I may be too late but I wouldn't rack to secondary yet. You've still got a ways to go and should keep it on the primary yeast cake with all that good active yeast. Just swirl it to keep the yeast in suspension. Belgians take time, don't rush it. And yeah, you should raise the temp if possible.

Oh, and if you did rack it already don't worry too much. You might still get it to dry out but it will probably take longer.
 
hogwash - thanks! I haven't actually racked it yet, ran out of time and figured I'd do it at lunch today. I'll keep it on the cake for now. I have it in the house and it is back up to 66 and bubbling away. Was down to 1.024 last night (from 1.030 the previous day) so it is definitely on the right path.

UPDATE: also, when I drew a sample last night it was completely opaque with yeast - tons of those busy little guys in there
 
belgian yeasts like heat, so if you can get it warmer than 66 you should do so. in fact, 66 has to be at the very low end of the yeast's range. now that the most active part of fermentation is over, you could ramp up well into the 70's. it'll help with attenuation. and as hogwash suggested, don't rack to secondary yet. i'd leave it in primary for a minimum of 3 weeks, longer won't hurt it. belgian yeasts can take their sweet time finishing off those last few gravity points.
 
Friday measured gravity: 1.016

Also on Friday I finally found an aquarium heater and set up the water at 72. It has been at 72 ever since, although I'm not sure it will get any drier than that - I was expecting 1.017 according to the online calculators and BeerSmith. It smells and tastes heavenly, definitely clove and a bit of banana, but it is definitely green and a little yeasty & hoppy. I am hoping for good things in a couple of months, hopefully by xmastime. Until then I resolve not to worry! :D

I'm going to leave it on the cake for another week and then rack to secondary - that'll be three weeks. Should I keep it at 72 while it ages or does it matter at that point?
 
Once it is finished fermenting, you don't need to keep it warm. The yeast cells like the heat so once they're done it is not needed.
 
Update 11/3/2012: Racked to secondary. Beer is at 1.014, many complex flavors already after 3 weeks and I can tell it will be much better in a month or two when the hops wear down. Next batch I'll use about half as much hops.
 
Final update: it is pretty darn good, but still green. However, there is very little of it left, as my friends and brother have learned of its existence.
 
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