Can someone suggest a basic saison AG recipe?

So I want to brew a saison as my next beer in order to take advantage of my 80F room temperature.

I have been reading recipes on hopville, but so far, I don't see too many similarities. Can anyone suggest a medium OG AG recipe that they had some success with? The only thing that I've decided on is that I'd like to use Wyeast 3724 for its high fermentation temperature (which will be easy for me to maintain). If possible, I'd like something simple, without added spices or additional yeasts.

My heart is set on a saison for two reasons:

1) They are delicious. It is a style that fascinates me.
2) I only have the capacity to chill one fermenter at a time during the summer. (Of course, I'll probably need to swamp this saison at least for the first few days of fermentation; that is not a problem.)

I'd appreciate any suggestions.

There's a bunch of good recipes here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/

Much thanks. A question, though. Is it customary or necessary to use Brett with Wyeast 3724?

Most of the saison recipes call for Wyeast 3711 which ferments at a lower temperature (that would necessitate me to use cooling for the entire fermentation, something I want to avoid). The ones that call for Wyeast 3724 usually include a Brett culture.

Would I get a bad result by simply subbing 3724 for 3711 in the recipes without Brett?

No Brett is necessary. You can just sub 3724 in place of 3711. It may take a couple of weeks longer to fully ferment but it will get there.

I ferment 3711 at 80*F all the time. Just stick your fermenter in a water bath so temps don't swing way high at the peak of fermentation, and you'll have a beer that's done fermenting in about a week. As far as recipes, simple is usually better. So far I've liked:

10 lb Belgian Pilsner

x oz Styrian Goldings to reach ~30 IBUs - 90 min
1.5-2 oz EKG - 0 min

That's it. This is a beer really all about the yeast, so while throwing in a bunch of different cereal grains and/or spices can be fun, my best Saisons have usually been the simplest ones.

phenry said:

I ferment 3711 at 80*F all the time. Just stick your fermenter in a water bath so temps don't swing way high at the peak of fermentation, and you'll have a beer that's done fermenting in about a week. As far as recipes, simple is usually better. So far I've liked:

10 lb Belgian Pilsner

x oz Styrian Goldings to reach ~30 IBUs - 90 min
1.5-2 oz EKG - 0 min

That's it. This is a beer really all about the yeast, so while throwing in a bunch of different cereal grains and/or spices can be fun, my best Saisons have usually been the simplest ones.

Click to expand...

I agree, simple is usually better. Sometimes I sub out a pound or two of the pils for some munich. Still simple but a little different flavor. You can also add some sugar to realy dry it out if you like.

Don't worry about using 3711 warm. That yeast seems to work over a very broad range of temps. It will chew through anything and always finishes nice and low. I like the flavor of 3724 a little better but it does like heat to finish low. 80 is good but 90 is even better. I just put my fermenter in a cooler filled with water and if i need to bump up the temp and aquarium heater does the trick.

I use the same grain bill for all of my saisons, 70% Pilsner 20% Wheat and 10% Munich and sometimes some simple sugar if I want a bigger beer all mashed at 148 for 90 mins, most of the time I use WLP565 and the hops vary.

I bitter with Magnum or Warrior primarily and tend to play with citrusy american hops late in the boil, like Amarillo Citra and Simcoe most recently. Probably the best one Ive made used a big dose of Sorachi Ace and flameout, really great beer.

Oh yea and I start WLP565 at room temp in the summer, ~68 ambient then ramp to high 80s after 48 hours, that schedule usually gets me a very dry beer.

Thanks to all the saison brewers that have replied! I think that I'll try 3711 for my first and swamp it at 80F r.t. All the talk about 3724 getting stuck at 1.030 is worrisome.

As far as hops go, should I stick to European varieties (Styrian Golding and EKG seem like a common choices) or would it be too brash to hop with some citrusy American hops like Cascade?

I feel that the yeast should really dominate a saison, but in my head I think that some spiciness could blend well with citrus. Then again, the two could clash something awful as well.

I brewed this at 73 and then transferred after 2 weeks and it sat at 75 for 4 weeks. Hands down the best Saison I've ever brewed.



21, A Sorachi Ace'd Saison

Type: All Grain Date: 6/19/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal Brewer: Chris Lewis
Boil Size: 6.86 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Lewys Tower
End of Boil Volume 6.24 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 72.0 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 76.3 %
2 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 2 16.9 %
12.8 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 3 6.8 %
0.75 oz Sorachi Ace [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 29.3 IBUs
1.20 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 5 -
0.20 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 6 -
0.50 oz Sorachi Ace [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Saison I Ale (White Labs #WLP565) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -
0.40 oz Sorachi Ace [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.053 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.6 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 29.3 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 4.3 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 12.8 oz
Sparge Water: 4.74 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 13.75 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F 75 min

Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 4.74 gal water at 168.0 F
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

I think this threadjack will also help the OP. Looking for some advice...

I want to do an indoor honey Saison with slightly untraditional hops (which are still up for debate). I never brewed a Saison before, but I want it to be a little more citrusy and bright, while remaining semi-true to style, nice and dry and drinkable. I prefer abv in the 6-7% range. Trying to cover some of those phenolic yeast flavors with more hops.

Tell me what you think - This is just a rough draft of what I have in mind.

Created it myself:

1.065 OG
1.010 FG or lower
30 IBUs

60 minute BIAB mash at 150 F
6 gal, 60 minute boil
5 gal batch

54% Northern Brewer Pilsen LME
15% Castle Pilsen 2RS
15% Orange Blossom Honey (added to 80 F wort before pitching yeast)
8% Castle Wheat
8% Castle Munich Light

10 IBUs Pacifica @ 60
10 IBUs Hallertauer Mittelfrueh @ 30
10 IBUS Pacifica & Hallertauer Mittelfrueh @ 15
Extended Whirlpool with 1 oz. Hallertauer Mittelfrueh
Dryhop 5 days with 1 oz. Pacifica

Wyeast 3711

Should I make a starter with that? Use yeast nutrient? Step-stage the fermentation temps? How long does the entire process take? Not using a secondary.

Overall critique appreciated, keeping my goals in mind of course. I also have a 75-85 F apartment this time of the year and want to take advantage of it. I tend to brew mostly IPAs and use a friend's chest cooler for them, which is full at the moment. I'm kind of out of my element with brewing Belgian ales, but I'm very familiar with these beers from a drinking standpoint. Thanks for the advice.

Here's the one I just brewed. Going to tap it tonight! http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/16624/saison

If you want ultra-basic, you can use 100% base malt and bittering hops only. 565/3724, in a Gainesville garage, would turn that into a good beer. As a set of general guidelines, I would mash low, omit any caramel and dark-roasted malts, and hop lower than you'd normally think because of the dryness.

How did it go ?

subscribed.
Thx.
Brew On!
Max

mine is 1.050 = 1.004
pilsner85% vienna wheat and rye ( 5% of each)
Mash at 150F
low bittering 10-15 ibu @ 60
1.5oz Motueka @0

If you haven't already committed to a recipe, I will add my 2c. The simpler, the better.

Yeast 1st - Use Wyeast 3711. It's fantastic, easy, safe, and gives you that traditional saison profile. Run warm, but under 80 is what I shoot for.

Malt 2nd
80% Pilsner
10% Wheat
10% Belgian Cara 20L
I prefer the wheat/caramel to the rye option, but if you really want a high-spice saison, substitute rye and a little caramel rye.
Mash Low - 148-150

Hops Last
at about 1.045 OG I liked:
1oz Goldings at 60 (22ibu)
1oz Goldings at 5 (4ibu)
1oz Saaz at 5 (2ibu)


Good luck!

Don't forget Belle Saison is a pretty good yeast too. It's a dry yeast, but very good. Great when used in the 70's to start and finish in 80s. 3724 can be a PITA as it tends to stall around 1.024-1.030. Then it takes 3 weeks to resume, if at all. 3726 is much more reliable, if you can find it. I wish their PC yeasts were available more often, or at least through a direct order.

One of my current favorites is East Coast Yeast ECY03. It has Brett from the Fantôme brewery in it. Gives an amazing pineapple flavor without much effort. ECY08 (Saison Brasserie) is the unBretted version. It's good too, and a faster worker.

I'm hoping that after 4 years the OP finally brewed a saison.

AZ_IPA said:

I'm hoping that after 4 years the OP finally brewed a saison.

Click to expand...

Hahaha.
Your more observant than me.

I'm a bit newer to saisons honestly, but I brewed this batch a couple weeks ago, let it sit only 2.5 weeks in the primary (I'm impatient)...then I kegged it up and it's been pretty damn tasty.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=254684