Looking to start AG soon and want to go with BIAB single vessel electric brewing

Been brewing extract and partial on the stove for about 6 months now and I am now ready to make the move to AG. Been doing lots of research on the forums and it seems like electric brewing is the way to go! I would like to do the BIAB single vessel electric method, seems like it is very effect and really cuts down on time, clean up and equipment cost. My concerns are, I have no electrical/wiring experience, I am on a budget as well and I am starting from scratch with equipment. Are there any simplified methods of doing this for someone so new to it all? What would be the best way to execute all of this properly, safely and cost effectively?

Thanks for your help in advance!

I just posted a wiring diagram for a BIAB setup in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/wiring-assistance-single-pid-ssr-single-kettle-setup-241686/

P-J said:

I just posted a wiring diagram for a BIAB setup in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/wiring-assistance-single-pid-ssr-single-kettle-setup-241686/

Click to expand...

Thank you P-J. I currently live in a rental and do not believe i would have access to 240v. I only have access to regular wall outlets, which I believe are 120v? Is there anyway to get this to work with what i have?

Does your rental have clothes washer/dryer outlets?

This is what I have in the garage, it says 30A-125/250v. We do not use it, we have both washer/dryer plugged into regular wall outlet.

Garrett said:

This is what I have in the garage, it says 30A-125/250v. We do not use it, we have both washer/dryer plugged into regular wall outlet.

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Sounds like you have a gas dryer. No problem as it sounds like the outlet that you pictured is available. With that it would be an easy task to setup a BIAB system that is powered by 240V. It would be similar to the diagram I referenced earlier (above) but would be setup for 240V only.

If you are interested, I can mod the diagram to accomplish that.

Oh: Another quick question. Is there any chance that the circuit breaker feeding that outlet can be changed to a GFCI outlet? It would be well worth the added safety factor.

P-J

That sounds great! My only concern is if I move out, having an outlet like that available for me in the future. Im not sure if I can get a GFCI outlet, I guess I could hire an electrician and have it installed, not sure how much that would cost. My circuit breaker is divided into two boxes, one main and one that controls the house.

Heres a picture of the main:



Also since I am so new to this, I notice in the diagram there is nothing about having a temperature probe, isn't that necessary to achieve proper temp?

I'm betting it is the top left breaker. Wish we lived closer -it would take all of 5 minutes to swap it out an test it. You might want to go on a research adventure and write down the make/model info on that breaker panel. Then go see if you can get a GFCI replacement reasonably at HD or Lowes (et.al.). If you are game - I can walk you through it on the phone.

Regarding the temp probe. It is there but is only shown as a RTD probe on the PID layout.

Suggestion: PM me your phone number and lets talk a bit.

P-J

That makes sense since it says 30 on it, I just took a look at the circuit breaker box and the brand is Crouse Hinds, but the model number is hard to make out. Just sent you a PM.

Thanks.! It was great talking with you. My mind is spinning with possibilities for a setup for you that provides the 'safety factor' and an easy implementation.

A Spa Panel is step one. Then the BIAB setup.

Ok, after much pondering over the situation, how about this. It would be expensive to replace the breaker in the mains panel with a GFCI breaker and you would still end up with a 3 wire system. Replacing the wire and the outlet adds a lot more to the build cost. Your place is also a rental so getting it done becomes a huge issue.

So with that all said, you buy a Spa Panel from homedepot.com - GE 50A Spa Panel - $49.00

Then wire it using a dryer power cord. You wire it like this:



Or looking at a Spa Panel:



You can mount a 4 wire outlet directly into the panel so that your brewery controller can be plugged into it.

For a little more that 50 bucks you are ready to go on with your brewery control.

Looks great P-J! I can't wait to get this started.

Edit, I think I'm going to try 120v, as I would be limited to my garage with 240v.

Can you connect a PID and SSR into the SPA panel?

mr_tripp said:

Can you connect a PID and SSR into the SPA panel?

Click to expand...

Yes you can - BUT - I'm not sure what you are asking.

Please explain. A little idea of what you are trying to achive would help.

P-J said:

Yes you can - BUT - I'm not sure what you are asking.

Please explain. A little idea of what you are trying to achive would help.

Click to expand...

I'm trying to do a single electric pot with a PID using a 240v 60amp dryer outlet. What is more economical, adding a spa panel or changing adding a GFCI on the panel box?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/wiring-assistance-single-pid-ssr-single-kettle-setup-241686/

Here is the setup I wanted to create.

PJ,

Looking at your diagram, I noticed you have the ground and neutral bonded in the spa panel. I'm really new to this, but I thought that was only supposed to be done in the main panel?? I'm not questioning it, since I know next to nothing, just looking for clarification.

Thanks,

John

mr_tripp said:

I'm trying to do a single electric pot with a PID using a 240v 60amp dryer outlet. What is more economical, adding a spa panel or changing adding a GFCI on the panel box?

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/wiring-assistance-single-pid-ssr-single-kettle-setup-241686/

Here is the setup I wanted to create.

Click to expand...

"using a 240v 60amp dryer outlet"

Hmmm.. Dryer outlets are 30A & Electric ranges are 50A. What do you have for your power outlet? Also, is it a 3 prong or a 4 prong outlet. Is your place something that you own or is it a rental property.

Lots of questions but situations change - depending.

P-J

John0872 said:

PJ,

Looking at your diagram, I noticed you have the ground and neutral bonded in the spa panel. I'm really new to this, but I thought that was only supposed to be done in the main panel?? I'm not questioning it, since I know next to nothing, just looking for clarification.

Thanks,

John

Click to expand...

John,

You are correct. However in the particular situation the outlet is a 3 wire device (dryer outlet) that is providing the 2 hots (240V) and a neutral. Using the spa panel to implement a GFCI breaker function allows the neutral/ground circuits to be broken out. This cannot be done in any way shape or manner if the panel were to be hard wired.

Just consider a dryer plugged into a 3 wire dryer outlet. The dryer has both 240V circuits (heating elements and motor) and 120V devices (timer, buzzer and lights). The outlet supplies 240V and a neutral. The dryer cabinet is grounded through the use of the neutral conductor with a bonding strap.

The NEC code changed a while ago to require dryers and electric stoved to be wired with 4 conductor circuits. The code change does not apply to circuits that were wired before this change.

HTH

P-J said:

"using a 240v 60amp dryer outlet"

Hmmm.. Dryer outlets are 30A & Electric ranges are 50A. What do you have for your power outlet? Also, is it a 3 prong or a 4 prong outlet. Is your place something that you own or is it a rental property.

Lots of questions but situations change - depending.

P-J

Click to expand...

It's a 4 prong. 30A dryer. Sorry

I own the house.

Thanks.

Finally back in the country and ready to get started on this project. Funds are allocated and ordering will begin soon. Cant wait!

Garrett said:

Finally back in the country and ready to get started on this project. Funds are allocated and ordering will begin soon. Cant wait!

Click to expand...

Welcome home.

Please keep us updated on your progress.

P-J

See my build here.

Good luck!

Well, ordered pretty much all parts today, I will post itemized list to keep this going.

btw that wall outlet is not necessarily connected to a 30A breaker - the writings on the box are just ratings for the wall outlet. Not necessarily what kind of breaker it's connected to.

hrafnkell said:

btw that wall outlet is not necessarily connected to a 30A breaker - the writings on the box are just ratings for the wall outlet. Not necessarily what kind of breaker it's connected to.

Click to expand...

This is the only wall outlet of its kind in the whole house and it is right next to the dryer in the garage. There is a corresponding 30A breaker in the box outside of my house as well.

Well a year later and this is finally done! Not going to get into why this took so long but it will be on its maiden voyage tonight. I'll post updates..

Garrett said:

Well a year later and this is finally done! Not going to get into why this took so long but it will be on its maiden voyage tonight. I'll post updates..

Click to expand...

Well how did it go!?

Antler said:

Well how did it go!?

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It went great, I am going to do a few more batches later this week and post pictures. Everything went smooth, I was actually above my OG the recipe called for. I did ed worts Bavarian Hefeweizen, its fermenting away right now!

Garrett said:

It went great, I am going to do a few more batches later this week and post pictures. Everything went smooth, I was actually above my OG the recipe called for. I did ed worts Bavarian Hefeweizen, its fermenting away right now!

Click to expand...

That's awesome! Post some pics of your next batch in progress! I've been wanting to build a setup like this for a while now but seems there's always something more important to spend the money on. Someday...

Alright so I just finished up a 10 gallon batch of a Belgian Blonde with Lavender. I was doing this solo today so im sure it could be more detailed with pictures, but I did that best I could!

Heres a picture of the rig:



1. Fill kettle with 14 gallons of filtered water.



2. Heres the current Temp of water (red #'s) from PID, going to be brought up to 160 degrees.



3. While waiting for that, I went ahead and got the handy basket that was included with the kettle prepped by lining it with my bag.



4. Poured in the Grains



5. Kettle is at temp now, dunking the basket in the kettle and beginning the mash





6. Temp has dropped down right where I want it and now let it mash for 90min!



7. Once done I left the basket and let all the wort drip down in to the kettle, once it starts slowing down i put the basket on top of a pot on the ground and squeeze the excess liquid out to dump back into the kettle.



8. Turn up the temp on the PID and begin boiling for 90min(lots of pilsner malt)



(heres an extra picture of the whole rig during the boil with my ingredients laid out ready to be added.)



9. Once the boil is done I put my immersion chiller in and cool down to 75 degrees.



(temp dropping)



10. Ready to pour in the fermenters!

Great setup! When I convert to electric I plan on having a pump to recirculate during the mash.

Great looking setup, I'm looking to do something similar.

Question, aren't you worried about tannins in step 7? I was taught that if you squeeze the grains you would extract tannins, but I could have been mislead.

Tannins aren't an issue when squeezing the bag.. It's a misunderstanding. Temperature is more of an issue, if you go over 80°C or thereabouts.

hrafnkell said:

Tannins aren't an issue when squeezing the bag.. It's a misunderstanding. Temperature is more of an issue, if you go over 80°C or thereabouts.

Click to expand...

Wicked, thanx heaps.