Tangy, Tart First Brew

So I cracked my first brew (a hefeweizen). It fermented for 10 days, was in a secondary for 7 days, and then bottle conditioned for 7 days.
There was actually pretty good carbonation for only week. But the taste was off.
It was really tangy, or tart. The color was a little darker than I would have liked, but seemed ok. When I moved it from the primary to the secondary, it had that banana fragrance, but I don't get it now.

Anyone got any ideas as to what might have happened? I don't know that I can drink this batch, unless it will get better as it sits in the bottle.

Thanks
Sean



Here's the recipe;
1lb Crystal 10
6lbs LME
1lb Wheat Dry Malt Extract
1oz Hallertau
Safbrew WB-06

Simmered Crystal 10 at 150degrees for 35 min; Added LME & DME; brought to a boil and added hops; boiled for 60min; cooled down to 70degrees; took grav (1.042); pitched yeast; Primary for 10 days; Racked to secondary; took grav (1.014); secondary for 7 days; took grav (1.014); racked to bottling bucket; boiled 3/4 cup corn sugar in 2 cups water; added to wort; bottled.

It'll get better as it ages. Age at room temp. You're good. You are drinking green beer after 24 days from brew day. People usually ferment for 24 days.

I agree it should get better as it ages, but Hefes are typically better when young.

Could be that the strain of yeast you used gives that flavor.... or like mdstrobe said, it could just be too young yet.

Hefe's should (as you probably know) be served warmer than ales ( cooler than room temp, but warmer than the refrigerator), and swirl the yeast into the bottle... just the temperature alone can change the taste dramatically.

Most beer will change in flavor substantially after proper conditioning. While hefes are best young, (it sounds like you did a good job w/the fermentation length) you're still gonna want to let it sit in the bottle for a while.

If it isn't any better after two more weeks then you might have a problem. How hot was your fermentation temp? I've noticed that with hefes the flavor gets a little funky as the temps get up there.

Thanks for the info guys!!
It was fermenting at around 68-70 degrees. At one point it did a pretty good temperature swing when we had a hot day that turned cold at night (life in Colorado).
I tasted it after the primary and it was pretty good, but the secondary was a little tangy but not bad.
I'll let it sit for another couple of weeks and hopefully it tastes better.
My question is, how can people drink KEGGED beer earlier than bottled beer if you still should let it sit for a while?

Sean

We ferment longer.

jollytim said:

I agree it should get better as it ages, but Hefes are typically better when young.

Could be that the strain of yeast you used gives that flavor.... or like mdstrobe said, it could just be too young yet.

Hefe's should (as you probably know) be served warmer than ales ( cooler than room temp, but warmer than the refrigerator), and swirl the yeast into the bottle... just the temperature alone can change the taste dramatically.

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Absolutely! My latest is just OK when first out of the fridge, but let it warm up just a little and >BAM!< it's some of the best beer I've EVER had. Maybe the best.

This tangy/tart flavor just isn't a little bit, it literally tastes like someone added a tbsp of vinegar into the bottle.

I will say that during the process I had set the primary on a warming pad to keep the temp up around 70. I also did the Christmas light warmer while the bottles were conditioning, so I hope I didn't get the beer too warm causing it to go foul!
I just took all the bottles out and set them on a shelf in the basement (which stays at about 67-68 degrees) until winter gets here, and hopefully they improve in flavor.

Now to convince the wife to let me try another batch of beer!

Sean

What water did you use to brew?

MaximAvs said:

This tangy/tart flavor just isn't a little bit, it literally tastes like someone added a tbsp of vinegar into the bottle.

I will say that during the process I had set the primary on a warming pad to keep the temp up around 70. I also did the Christmas light warmer while the bottles were conditioning, so I hope I didn't get the beer too warm causing it to go foul!
I just took all the bottles out and set them on a shelf in the basement (which stays at about 67-68 degrees) until winter gets here, and hopefully they improve in flavor.

Now to convince the wife to let me try another batch of beer!

Sean

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Sean, Did you taste this prior to bottling at all?
What is your sanitizing routine and what do you use for sanitation pre fermentation through bottling?

BeerJorge said:

What water did you use to brew?

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Tap water. It tastes good to me, and from what I've heard if your tap water tastes good to you, you should use it.

I did let it sit for 24 hours prior to using it (to attempt to get the chlorine to evaporate).

COLObrewer said:

Sean, Did you taste this prior to bottling at all?
What is your sanitizing routine and what do you use for sanitation pre fermentation through bottling?

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I did taste the brew after primary, and it was pretty good.
I tasted it after secondary, and it had a little "tang" to it but I thought it might have been from the sanitizer that was on the thief.

As for sanitizing I thought I did a good job (over cautious) being my first brew. I used Star-San on everything through the process (even used it in the air valve).

I had posted before that my secondary was still bubbling after a week but the hydro hadn't changed at all, and the folks here said it was probably OK and to go ahead and bottle.

MaximAvs said:

I did taste the brew after primary, and it was pretty good.
I tasted it after secondary, and it had a little "tang" to it but I thought it might have been from the sanitizer that was on the thief.

As for sanitizing I thought I did a good job (over cautious) being my first brew. I used Star-San on everything through the process (even used it in the air valve).

I had posted before that my secondary was still bubbling after a week but the hydro hadn't changed at all, and the folks here said it was probably OK and to go ahead and bottle.

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Well, sounds good then, see if it gets better or worst in a week or so, if it's worst there may be some infection. I use our crappy beer for the grill, and believe me we have a lot of crappy beer, that's how you learn to make good beer, IMO.

Hey man, if you want some decent advice on your tangy-ness... Post your recipe. Its the only way for anyone to give you a half-thought out opinion on what you are tasting. Heck, I don't even know if you did a coopers kit or an all grain batch?

Post it! At least some basic details....

EDIT - FYI, I have xperienced the same taste you describe in a wheat beer before also, but I need to know what you are brewing.

jjones17 said:

Hey man, if you want some decent advice on your tangy-ness... Post your recipe. Its the only way for anyone to give you a half-thought out opinion on what you are tasting. Heck, I don't even know if you did a coopers kit or an all grain batch?

Post it! At least some basic details....

EDIT - FYI, I have xperienced the same taste you describe in a wheat beer before also, but I need to know what you are brewing.

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You're right!! I should have started with that!!

I've added the recipe and procedure to the first post!!

MaximAvs said:

You're right!! I should have started with that!!

I've added the recipe and procedure to the first post!!

Click to expand...

Thats easier now, thanks

Ok, well let me see if I can ease your mind a bit. My very first hefe was almost the same recipe as yours except I used wheat extract for about half of my recipe. I used the same yeast as you did, and used some crystal as well (which is not very typical of the style, but I love full bodied beers which is why I used the crystal).

Anyway, I got the EXACT same INTENSE twangy, bannana-y, etc from my beer and I hated it. BUT ----- you will learn to love it! Yes, you heard right.

That yeast will give you those characteristics any day of the week, sometimes it is super pronounced in the beer and other times not so much. But any time I use that yeast, I prepare my taste buds for the intense tartness that will be coming. However, as brews went on I began to crave that taste, which is a hallmark of a hefe. Those not used to the freshness of a homemade wheat will be shocked by it, but its not really a bad thing.

Now, you will definately notice that flavor subside as time goes on. Your beer will end up more like an underhopped pale ale within a month or two (if it lasts that long). This is because I do not see any wheat extract in your recipe. Wheat will help your beer stay tasting wheat-beerish after the yeast settles out and becomes less pronounced - that can take some time, but I suspect you will begin to really enjoy this beer after a few more weeks from now.

Cheers, sounds like you had fun making it

Brew on, brother! :rockin:

@jjones17
Thanks for the info!! I'm not sure I can LOVE that tangy flavor. The DME was a Wheat Dry Malt Extract. So I'm hoping it mellows out somewhat. If I change yeast can I lessen the tanginess?!

I did have a great time making it, and I'm looking forward to trying other styles.

BTW, on a side note, I love Nanaimo bars!!!

Sean

So I got thinking guys... I know ... horrifying!

I was looking at the recipe I had for my brew, and at the bottom where it talks about boiling up the sugar water for bottle conditioning it says..
"Add 3/4 cup corn sugar or 1-1/4 cups of dry malt extract to 2 cups of water and boil.."

I'm starting to wonder if I used 1-1/4 cups of corn sugar for my solution because i was reading too fast and the "1-1/4" is a little bolder than the "3/4".
Do you think that would give me that really tangy flavor or would that just over carbonate the brew?

Sean

A note on the color.... perhaps you scorched it. Are you using a SS pot or an aluminum one? I scorched the my first one using an aluminum pot, seems to be easier to do in those.

Flavor- Maybe it's just me, but i've never known a vinegary taste to be pleasant or acceptable in beer, except maybe in an intentional sour mash. Give it time and perhaps it will Mellow out. Although it sounds like an infection to me IMO.

Time is a beers best friend. Don't be tempted to drink the green beer.... let it be and come back later to update us...

OP, do yourself a favor and pick up a yeast like WLP 300 next time you do a hefe. I've used WB-06 with a hefe before. It turned out OK. Next time I used WLP 300. Like night and day. The yeast truly helps to bring the flavors of this style.

Also about aging hefe's. I fermented mine for 2-3 weeks and then bottled. Taste was awesome for about 4-5 weeks after. After that, the beer lost a lot of the yeast/banana flavors and became kind of bland.

pkincaid said:

A note on the color.... perhaps you scorched it. Are you using a SS pot or an aluminum one? I scorched the my first one using an aluminum pot, seems to be easier to do in those.

Flavor- Maybe it's just me, but i've never known a vinegary taste to be pleasant or acceptable in beer, except maybe in an intentional sour mash. Give it time and perhaps it will Mellow out. Although it sounds like an infection to me IMO.

Time is a beers best friend. Don't be tempted to drink the green beer.... let it be and come back later to update us...

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I used a SS pot. I don't think I scorched it. I even removed the pot from the heat when I added the LME. It was really dark when I finished but it actually lightened up as it fermented.
I will let it sit for a while and report back in a couple of weeks!
Thank you!!

DirkDiggler said:

OP, do yourself a favor and pick up a yeast like WLP 300 next time you do a hefe. I've used WB-06 with a hefe before. It turned out OK. Next time I used WLP 300. Like night and day. The yeast truly helps to bring the flavors of this style.

Also about aging hefe's. I fermented mine for 2-3 weeks and then bottled. Taste was awesome for about 4-5 weeks after. After that, the beer lost a lot of the yeast/banana flavors and became kind of bland.

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I was thinking of trying a different flavor.

If anyone wants to recommend a good tried hefe recipe, I'd appreciate it!!

Sean

MaximAvs said:

I was thinking of trying a different flavor.

If anyone wants to recommend a good tried hefe recipe, I'd appreciate it!!

Sean

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I'll let you know how my current one comes out... It's an AG, original creation, but perhaps I can convert it to extract for ya.

MaximAvs said:

@jjones17
Thanks for the info!! I'm not sure I can LOVE that tangy flavor. The DME was a Wheat Dry Malt Extract. So I'm hoping it mellows out somewhat. If I change yeast can I lessen the tanginess?!

I did have a great time making it, and I'm looking forward to trying other styles.

BTW, on a side note, I love Nanaimo bars!!!

Sean

Click to expand...

Awesome you love Nanaimo bars

Anyway, no you cannot lessen that Tangyness by changing the yeast- it is part of a young wheat using TONS of wheat extract in relation to other extracts. Which is what you did. I brew all grain, and when I use TONS of wheat grain (IE more than 50% of the grain bill) I get the same thing.

If you really want to reduce that tangyness do this:

- Reduce your wheat extract to less than 40% of the grain bill. If you do this, you will notice a HUUUUUUUUUGE difference. I did a wheat beer with only 20% of the grain bill, using wheat yeast though. Not really a wheat in the traditional sense, but probably one of the best beers I have every had - seriously. I am am bit tipsy on it now

Just a follow up guys. I went and took my hefe brew to a local homebrew night to ask fellow brewers what might be going on.
After discussing my processes and tasting my beer they felt that the beer being young MIGHT be what's going on but 2 other issues might be bigger.
1. I used tap water. Everyone said I should use bottled water or at least set the tap water out over night to allow the chlorine to evaporate.
2. My brew equipment is brand new! I have Better Brew plastic fermenting carboys and they think my brew absorbed some of the plastic taste from the carboys. They get a plastic back taste from the beer.
They didn't think it would improve with age.
So I think it's back to the drawing board for me.

Another update.
I told my fellow co-workers that my first brew is possibly a dud. They said they still want to try it. So I handed out 4 bottles of it and waited to hear comments.

Lo and behold, they all like it. The comment is it IS a bit sour but no more than a couple of lemon/lime slices in a beer.

I guess I wont be pouring it out after all and instead sharing it with them!!

Maybe I'm too picky on my beer flavor.

I wanted to use WB-06 on the witbier I was planning and after reading a lot of info on the web, the consensus seems to point to the fact that it is a tart yeast. Potent tartness was a recurring theme, so I doubt your problem is due to water or infection. Wheat beers also have this tartness from the taste of the wheat alone.

From reading about hefeweizens, I get the feeling you need the liquid yeast strain if you want the real banana and clove.

MaximAvs said:

Another update.
I told my fellow co-workers that my first brew is possibly a dud. They said they still want to try it. So I handed out 4 bottles of it and waited to hear comments.

Lo and behold, they all like it. The comment is it IS a bit sour but no more than a couple of lemon/lime slices in a beer.

I guess I wont be pouring it out after all and instead sharing it with them!!

Maybe I'm too picky on my beer flavor.

Click to expand...

Nope you just didn't wait long enough This is a tart yeast, needs much more time the in the bottle to meet a more mellow state than 4 weeks. Mine usually start getting really good after 1.5 - 2 months in the bottle. Honestly, the last WB-06 beer I made was one of the best wheats I have EVER had. Period.

Please do not threaten dumping a beer ever again you will give me a stroke. :cross: