Tripel Critique

Well, I don't feel like spending 10 or 15 bucks on belgian candi sugar so I'm trying to make this beer without any sugar additions. I'm worried the FG is going to be real high, but I"m gonna mash low to try and get around that. Here's my first attack at a recipe. I barely hit the style OG min 1.075 and the SRM max 6.0. Any comments greatly appreciated. Got my starter going tonight, hopefully brewing on Sat or Sun.

Style: Belgian Tripel
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.075 SG
Estimated Color: 6.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
13.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 86.67 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.67 %
0.25 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 1.67 %
0.25 lb Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 1.67 %
0.25 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 1.67 %
0.25 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1.67 %
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (75 min) Hops 15.5 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 13.2 IBU
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (20 min) Hops 4.5 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (5 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) [StarYeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 15.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 18.75 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 12.00 qt of water at 200.2 F 168.0 F

Why not use cane sugar? I used it for 15% of my fermentables in my last triple recipe, no off flavours yet. Or you can get fancy and use turbinado, probably will run you $1.25 a lb.

Why not make your own candi sugar. I made some from Turbinado sugar. You can make it from regular table sugar also. You add ascorbic acid or cream of tartar to the sugar and water which inverts the sugar.


.....Invert Sugar is Table Sugar (Sucrose) that has been split into its components, Glucose and Fructose. With the use of Invert Sugar in wine and beermaking, the glucose is made immediately available for the yeast to use thus allowing the fermentation process to begin more quickly than if you use Table Sugar. With Table Sugar (Sucrose) the yeast will first have to split the Sucrose into Glucose and Fructose before it can use the Glucose in the fermentation process.....

Here's a link: http://www.franklinbrew.org/brewinfo/candi_sugar.html

OK, first, cane sugar scares me. You are one of the few that have said good things about it. Turbinado.. I've used, I like it, but it's too dark for this beer, will up my SRM too much.

Now I like the idea of making my own, is absorbic acid hard to get my hands on?

Either Vitamin C or cream of tartar will work. Just try and find some Vitamin C that doesn't have all of the other junk in it. I've read that half a lemon will work too. Cream of tartar can be found at the grocery store in the spice aisle.

Don't waste your money on candi sugar, it's not even an authentic Belgian ingredient. Many commercial breweries and home brewers use corn sugar. Turbonado, panela is good sugar. The recipe seems good, if anything a little too complicated. Aim for very high attenuation, around 80-85% if you want to be authentic. Fermentation is the most important step in Abby ales. Brewers will pitch the yeast at a cool temp, around 60F and let it rise naturally during fermentation, to about 75F. This will give the beer a strong ester profile, along with the desired high level of attenuation. I would not use Carapils, it defeats the purpose of a triple, which is known for being a high alcohol beer that is fairly dry and not cloying.

Iordz said:

Don't waste your money on candi sugar, it's not even an authentic Belgian ingredient. Many commercial breweries and home brewers use corn sugar. The recipe seems good, if anything a little too complicated. Aim for very high attenuation, around 80-85% if you want to be authentic. Fermentation is the most important step in Abby ales. Brewers will pitch the yeast at a cool temp, around 60F and let it rise naturally during fermentation, to about 75F. This will give the beer a strong ester profile, along with the desired high level of attenuation. I would not use Carapils, it defeats the purpose of a triple, which is known for being a high alcohol beer that is fairly dry and not cloying.

Click to expand...

I thought I might have gone overboard with the carapils, but I did read that tripels commonly use dextrine/carapils malt. It was such low SRM I upped it to a pound, but I'll probably back off if I can get some sugar involved.

Carapils is really not that common and sugar is very common in triples, but you definitely don't have to be confined by the style. Have fun and experiment!

Iordz said:

Carapils is really not that common and sugar is very common in triples, but you definitely don't have to be confined by the style. Have fun and experiment!

Click to expand...

Good call, I'm gonna try to invert my own sugar tonight.

I have a tripel planned next, im looking at something much simpler.

A pile of lager/pils malt
A few 100 gs of aromatic malt
About 15 % cane sugar
Stryrian goldings all the way

OG of about 1090, thats it.

Im going to let the yeast do its thing and give me the interesting flavours.

If you hate the idea of using cane sugar, have you thought about using golden syrup, its simply inverted sugar without the hassle of making it.

seefresh said:

I thought I might have gone overboard with the carapils, but I did read that tripels commonly use dextrine/carapils malt. It was such low SRM I upped it to a pound, but I'll probably back off if I can get some sugar involved.

Click to expand...

If you're worried about attenuation, the last thing you want is carapils!

I got the idea from Beersmith, and yea bird, I noticed my FG estimate was pretty high. Beersmith style guidlines list 4 fermentable ingredients common to a belgian tripel: Pils, Candi Sugar, and carapils & caravienne for head retention. WHere did they get this idea from? I didn't see carapils over at the bjcp either.

Bump up the wheat for head retention.

BTW - don't trust the FG calculators on Beersmith. I'm 99% sure that all they do is multiply your OG by the assumed attenuation - but it's not going to figure out for you what that attentuation should be. It won't factor in that sugar is effectively 100% fermentable, while maltodextrine is close to 0% fermentable. It's just not that sophisticated.

I don't think it factors in mash temp either, that's why I wasn't too worried. I'll bump up the wheat then. How much wheat do you think I can have and still keep some clarity to the beer (without having to filter it).

I wouldn't worry about doing a full pound. Can you cold-condition it? That ought to help on the clarity end as well.

Do a 90-minute mash at ~148°-149°, that'll help the attenuation. I got just about 90% on my Belgian dark doing a long, low mash and having a pound of candi sugar in there (but regular sugar would be fine). Of course, my efficiency sucked, but at least it attenuated!

I'd be inclinded to bump up the Munich a wee bit, too - or maybe sub in some melanoidin / aromatic malt. But, I really like the character that those malts bring. That might get you a little on the dark side, but really, style guidelines are essentially meaningless when it comes to Belgian beers. Special B adds a nice, complex note, too.

Why are style guidelines less meaningful in Belgium than elsewhere?

Belgian brewers have historically done whatever the hell they wanted. That's why you see recipes with as many unusual ingredients in them as you do - spices, orange peel, lots of wheat, lots of different kinds of sugar, basically anything goes. Kind of the anti-Reinheitsgebot. German beers fit into pretty tight standards by design, that's not really the case with Belgians. Guidelines are only guidelines, anyway.

This thread's got me changing my recipes around for when I do my Tripel Twins Showdown. I've already ordered the candi sugar, because I really like how it works in belgian beers.

Tripel Twins - Rochefort

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

18-C Belgian Strong Ale, Belgian Tripel

Min OG: 1.075 Max OG: 1.085
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 38
Min Clr: 5 Max Clr: 6 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.25 Wort Size (Gal): 5.25
Total Grain (Lbs): 14.00
Anticipated OG: 1.083 Plato: 20.09
Anticipated SRM: 4.8
Anticipated IBU: 36.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 78 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 6.77 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.065 SG 15.81 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.30


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
46.4 6.50 lbs. Pilsener Malt(2-Row) Continental Eu 1.035 1
28.6 4.00 lbs. Gleneagle's Maris Otter Pale Great Britain 1.038 5
10.7 1.50 lbs. Candi Sugar (clear) Generic 1.046 1
7.1 1.00 lbs. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0
7.1 1.00 lbs. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 oz. Hallertauer Whole 4.00 6.2 90 min.
1.50 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 6.00 26.1 60 min.
0.25 oz. Hallertauer Whole 4.00 2.2 30 min.
0.50 oz. Saazer Whole 3.30 2.4 15 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 Tsp Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)
1.00 Tbsp pH Stabilizer Other 60 Min.(mash)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Multi Step

Grain Lbs: 11.50
Water Qts: 14.38 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 3.60 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.25 - Before Additional Infusions

Acid Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Protein Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Intermediate Rest Temp : 133 Time: 30
Saccharification Rest Temp : 149 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 158 Time: 20
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 10


Total Mash Volume Gal: 4.51 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

Evan! said:

This thread's got me changing my recipes around for when I do my Tripel Twins Showdown. I've already ordered the candi sugar, because I really like how it works in belgian beers.

Tripel Twins - Rochefort

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

18-C Belgian Strong Ale, Belgian Tripel

Min OG: 1.075 Max OG: 1.085
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 38
Min Clr: 5 Max Clr: 6 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.25 Wort Size (Gal): 5.25
Total Grain (Lbs): 14.00
Anticipated OG: 1.083 Plato: 20.09
Anticipated SRM: 4.8
Anticipated IBU: 36.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 78 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 6.77 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.065 SG 15.81 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.30


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
46.4 6.50 lbs. Pilsener Malt(2-Row) Continental Eu 1.035 1
28.6 4.00 lbs. Gleneagle's Maris Otter Pale Great Britain 1.038 5
10.7 1.50 lbs. Candi Sugar (clear) Generic 1.046 1
7.1 1.00 lbs. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0
7.1 1.00 lbs. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.50 oz. Hallertauer Whole 4.00 6.2 90 min.
1.50 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 6.00 26.1 60 min.
0.25 oz. Hallertauer Whole 4.00 2.2 30 min.
0.50 oz. Saazer Whole 3.30 2.4 15 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 Tsp Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)
1.00 Tbsp pH Stabilizer Other 60 Min.(mash)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Multi Step

Grain Lbs: 11.50
Water Qts: 14.38 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 3.60 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.25 - Before Additional Infusions

Acid Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Protein Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Intermediate Rest Temp : 133 Time: 30
Saccharification Rest Temp : 149 Time: 60
Mash-out Rest Temp : 158 Time: 20
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 10


Total Mash Volume Gal: 4.51 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.

Click to expand...

Looks like another one for the swap box Evan. I like how one of us will be doing the long hallertauer boil and the other a long styrian boil. Will be interesting.

I'm pulling the carapils and adding some aromatic, I'm going to make my own invert sugar today and see how that turns out. I'd like to keep the srm down on this one. I'll get an updated recipe on this thread soon. I gotta get back to work you bums!

Belgian recipes are the only time I would ever advocate cane/corn sugar.

Let us know how it comes out. I would love to hear from anyone who has used both corn sugar and invert sugar to see how it differs in the end product.

I have tried both, no real big difference to me. I have not used plain table sugar though, and I don't think I would. For the next batch I will try make "candi" sugar.

Making some candi sugar right now. I'll tell ya, 50 cents a pound is way better than 5 or 6 bucks a pound. Here's my updated recipe:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.079 SG
Estimated Color: 7.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 72.13 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 6.56 %
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.56 %
0.25 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.64 %
0.25 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 1.64 %
0.25 lb Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 1.64 %
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (75 min) Hops 15.0 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (20 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (5 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
1.50 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 9.84 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) [StarYeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 13.75 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 17.19 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 11.00 qt of water at 200.2 F 168.0 F

Seefresh,

How did the sugar turn out?

the_Roqk said:

Seefresh,

How did the sugar turn out?

Click to expand...

We'll see, I let it sit int he fridge overnight. It's really hard, I just need to scrapeall the wax paper off which is kind of a pain.

Hey I found your other thread and posted.

seefresh said:

We'll see, I let it sit int he fridge overnight. It's really hard, I just need to scrapeall the wax paper off which is kind of a pain.

Click to expand...

Try using parchment paper. It peels right off.

Recipe changed again, went to the brew closet and can't find my aromatic... I KNOW I got a 5lb bag a couple weeks ago, so wierd. Anyway, new and final recipe... it's mashing now at 150.7F

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.079 SG
Estimated Color: 7.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 72.13 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 6.56 %
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.56 %
0.66 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 1.64 %
0.33 lb Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 1.64 %
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (75 min) Hops 15.0 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (20 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (5 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
1.50 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 9.84 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) [StarYeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 13.75 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 17.19 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 11.00 qt of water at 200.2 F 168.0 F