Multiple Crystal Malt Experiment

So, I want to do an experiment. I want to do 3 single gallon batches with only pale 2-row and crystal malt (maybe 20, 40, and 60). I was thinking the easiest thing to do would be to mash the 2-row all together and then split up the runnings 3 ways, and then steep the crystal. Would this basically give the same flavor as if the crystal were in the mash?

Also, what kind of ratio should the pale 2-row and crystal be in? I want to be able to really taste the crystal. The maximum percent crystal is usually 20%. Should I use 20% in the recipes or more?

Thanks!

I think that's a great idea. I don't think the flavor would be any different from steeping since all the sugars are already converted in crystal malt. And it would save you a bunch of hassle by mashing all the base grain together. I really like the crystal at 10-15% of the grist. That will give you plenty of flavor, but won't become overwhelming.

I agree with the 10%-15% ratio. Too high and you will taste too much crystal without getting a true idea on how it balances with the two row. It's important to get a good idea of the crystal, but it's better to keep it balanced IMO if you want to know what the crystal will do in a real brew. I also like the idea of mashing the two row in one batch, and then adding the steeped crystal separately. This will make for a better controlled comparison for the crystal.

Be sure to post your findings!

Thanks guys! I will indeed post the method and results.

Sounds like an interesting experiment. I assume you trying to determine the flavor differences?
What is your hopping schedule?

gxm said:

Sounds like an interesting experiment. I assume you trying to determine the flavor differences?
What is your hopping schedule?

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Yes. There always seems to be some crystal malt in the recipes I do, and I would really like to taste the difference between them for myself so that when I make a recipe, I know which one would be best.

For hops, I dunno. I'm thinking maybe either only a bittering addition or bittering and flavoring. I think I might use Amarillo and keep it to 20-30 IBUs with the OG at 1.050 just to make sure the bitterness doesn't interfere with the malt too much.

I'm in the middle of brewing this right now. Wow, what a handful 3 separate batches is!

Awesome, keep us updated!

Thanks much for doing this. It'll be real interesting how it all comes out. Since so many IPAs and Pales are just subtle variations on the malt bill, this is a great experiment to do. Wish I could be there to taste.

Wow, this brewday was incredible! Started at 10am, completely done and everything cleaned up at 5pm! My mash went (almost) great. I went from 155F to 154F @ 15 min, but then it dropped to 149F @ 30 min. My mash tun is my kettle, so I just put it on the stove and heated back to 155F, but temp readings were all over the place during this time, so who really knows. But, it looks like I got 85% efficiency, highest ever. Considering my first mash about 1.5 years ago was 45%, I am extremely happy about how I've managed to get better and better results with the mash.

Alright, let me give the recipes.

Yeast: US-05
Batch Size: 1 gal, 1 gal, 1 gal
OG: 1.055, 1.058, 1.057
FG: 1.014, 1.015, 1.014
SRM: 10, 15, 20
IBUs: 40-45
Boil: 60 min
Primary: 21 days at 62F air temp
Secondary: none

Fermentables:
5 lb Pale US 2-row (mashed)
.25 lb crystal 20, crystal 40, crystal 60 (steeped in different kettles)

Hops:
4.7g Amarillo 7.5% in each kettle @ 60, 20, 10, 0 min.

Directions:
Mash 5 lb 2-row as normal at 155F. Collect about 4 gallons wort, and split evenly into 3 kettles. Steep the different crystal malts one in each kettle at 150-160F for 30 min. Continue the beer making as normal after this. Rehydrate 6.9g yeast in sterilized jar with 5 tbsp pre-boiled water at 80F for 20 min. Add 6 tsp yeast slurry to each fermenter.

By the way, does anyone know why rehydrated us-05 smells EXACTLY like strawberries? Doesn't taste like it tho...tastes really tangy and sour.

Alright, first interesting difference already happened.

I checked on the fermentation at 15 hrs and the C20 was already going, the C40 looked like it had just started, and there was no activity in the C60. At about 17 hrs, the C40 was catching up to the C20, and the C60 had started.

I wonder if the yeast just have a more difficult time with the more complex sugars in the darker malts.

Here's a pic of the experiment after a week fermenting at 63F.


The jugs are from left to right, C60, C40, C20, and a cranberry wheat that is unrelated. You can clearly see the difference in color of the C20, but the diff between C60 and C40 is too subtle to see since it's still in the jug and hasn't cleared yet. I replaced the airlocks with the s-shaped airlocks because I have problems with negative pressure in the carboy causing liquid to be sucked back through those 3 piece airlocks. The liquid in the 3-piece locks smelled wonderfully of hops! I also bumped the fermentation chamber temp to swing between 65F and 70F at this point to finish off fermentation. I guess I'll leave it like this for another week.

Were the C40 and C60 clearly different colors pre-steeping?

The reason I ask is that my vendor used to sell a C10, but it was closer to C20 in color, so they discontinued it. I wonder if it's a similar issue for C40/C60 - not that different.

Makes one wonder how good at process control some malters are.

RichBenn said:

Were the C40 and C60 clearly different colors pre-steeping?

The reason I ask is that my vendor used to sell a C10, but it was closer to C20 in color, so they discontinued it. I wonder if it's a similar issue for C40/C60 - not that different.

Makes one wonder how good at process control some malters are.

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No, they were not "clearly" different in color when I milled them. However, they did have different smells, so I'm sure the C60 was more caramelized than the C40. I am surprised by the darkness of all of them though. I should have gotten colors of 7 10 12 SRM, but these seem a good 5 units darker.

I've subscribed to this thread and look forward to what you find out. Did you taste the wort pre fermentation? I know the sugars dominate the flavor but did you notice subtle differences?

LeeF said:

I've subscribed to this thread and look forward to what you find out. Did you taste the wort pre fermentation? I know the sugars dominate the flavor but did you notice subtle differences?

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Hm, I didn't. However, I made some teas not too long ago by steeping different malts in mash temperature water for 15 minutes. Here are my comments from those:

2-row: Grainy and weak.
Victory: Roasty and toasty, but not burnt.
C60: More toasty, a little burnt, but with dark caramel flavor.

You know, I still have some of the C20, C40, and C60 left over, so I'll do the same thing again with them...

Ok, here are my comments this time:

C20: Grainy. Very subtle sweetness and slight caramel taste.
C40: Prominent caramel taste, sweet, on the verge of burnt. Very smooth.
C60: Astringent dry mouthfeel. Flavor is a touch stronger than C40, but without the same sweetness.

Just bottled these today, and tasted them on their way in. The C20 is clearly sweeter and just lighter in taste, but there is a much more subtle difference between C40 and C60. What amazed me was that as I was pouring these into the bottles, the aroma was exactly like that of the fresh crushed crystal.

Wow, these are amazing!

The difference in taste has dimished a lot. I can tell the the C20 is just barely sweeter, but other than that, they all taste the same to me. But, wow! Who would have guessed such a simple recipe would have turned out so tasty? Next time, I might multiply the 0 minute hop addition by 1.5 or so since I think that would put the aroma just over the top. Hops really come through in this ale.

rocketman768 said:

Wow, these are amazing!

The difference in taste has dimished a lot. I can tell the the C20 is just barely sweeter, but other than that, they all taste the same to me. But, wow! Who would have guessed such a simple recipe would have turned out so tasty? Next time, I might multiply the 0 minute hop addition by 1.5 or so since I think that would put the aroma just over the top. Hops really come through in this ale.

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Thanks so much for doing this, Rocketman!

I had incorrectly thought the darker crystal would have tasted sweeter(correlating "carmel" with "sweet"), but you cleared that up!

I've just started making some simpler recipes -- it must be one of the best ways to get a better feel for ingredients! With those complicated grain and hop bills it's pretty hard to figure out what's doing what, as well as being unfriendly to the wallet.....

Yeah, very cool experiment! I'd love to see this re-created with a bigger swing in the crystal types, like C20, C80 & c120. Or maybe c120 vs Special B.

Nice experiment! Do you think your hops - you mention them really coming through - have masked the difference between crystal malts?

14thstreet said:

Nice experiment! Do you think your hops - you mention them really coming through - have masked the difference between crystal malts?

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I think they probably did. It's probably better that the experiment be done at a lower IBU level of maybe 10-20. However, at least I know that for moderate to highly hopped beer, it doesn't much matter the crystal you choose.