Sanke Keg fermenter

has anyone used a sanke keg as a fermenter not cutting the top and using the sanke tube maybe cut a inch off to transfer to corny kegs with CO2 when fermintation is complete.
I was also thinking about putting a ball vave on bottom to drain off the yeast slurry. That will be a little difficult to connect but I can make up a tool to insert the close nipple from inside.
Just been thinkin it would be nice to ferment a 10 to 12 gal batch in one vessel just pop out the sanke tube, clean, sanatize, fill, pop in a stopper with airlock or blowoff tube and let it ferment after it's ready pop off the stopper and reinstall the sanke tube and transfer to corny kegs with a sanke tap, force carbonate chill and drink.
Any coments or sugestions will be a big help

I have been using un-modified sanke keg's as fermenters for about a year. they work great (although a bit difficult to clean)

Remove the spear and valve body, then get a sanke fermentation cap, or just modify a 2" triclamp blank.

http://www.brewershardware.com/Sanke-Fermenter-Kits

I've not fermented in my 1/6 Sanke kegs yet, but I'm aging in one right now, and plan on fermenting in another with my next batch. I simply removed the spears and that's it... You can fit one of the large universal bungs in the opening and not need to get any other (expensive) hardware to ferment in them. Use some fermcap in the wort and you shouldn't even need a blow-off tube. That's what I did in a 5 gallon corny keg... Just fit an airlock and you're good to go (just be sure to use fermcap)...

Personally, the 1/6 size kegs are fine for using the regular auto-siphon in for transfers. Just confirmed this about 10 seconds ago with the tube from my auto-siphon into one of my empty Sanke kegs... More than enough left coming out of the opening, when it bottoms out inside. That's without the small part on the bottom of the tube too.

If you want to use the expensive setup for the Sanke, go ahead. But, I think you can do it on the cheap without much effort at all... I don't mind letting the brew transfer via auto-siphon to the bottling bucket.

Now I just need to figure out what I'm going to do with four Sanke keg spears... The tops have enough weight, and they're long enough, to make rather nasty maces/clubs...

Couldn't you just take the guts out, and put an airlock w/ a rubber stopper in the hole?

Rack with a racking cane of some sort thats long enough to get down to the bottom?

I've haven't heard of a rubber stopper, although it would work. From what I hear, the orange carboy caps work very well for fermenting in a Sanke.

I've contemplated going this route, but am hesitant about siphoning out of it as it would mean lifting the Sanke with 10 gallons of beer to a high enough elevation to siphon from...

Ace_Club said:

I've haven't heard of a rubber stopper, although it would work. From what I hear, the orange carboy caps work very well for fermenting in a Sanke.

I've contemplated going this route, but am hesitant about siphoning out of it as it would mean lifting the Sanke with 10 gallons of beer to a high enough elevation to siphon from...

Click to expand...

If you used the orange cap and had CO2 why not have the racking cane in one of the openings in the cap and use the other to force in CO2 to push the beer out. I have done it this way with the carboy caps on better bottles so that I could have a completely closed transfer.

I just pulled the spears out of mine and use them as they are with no modification. a #10.5 rummer stopper or 11 stopper will fit in the hole in the top i just run my tubing out of that and then add an airlock after fermentation has slowed. they are a little tough to clean i use a pressure washer and a carboy brush and then use a mirror to make sure the inside top is clean.

WortMonger has an excellent write up on his system: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

The wiki version of the article has nice pictures without having to wade through 700+ posts. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Closed-system_pressurized_fermentation

HardHatPat said:

Couldn't you just take the guts out, and put an airlock w/ a rubber stopper in the hole?

Rack with a racking cane of some sort thats long enough to get down to the bottom?

Click to expand...

Yes, and I've done it. But the rubber stopper doesn't allow pressurized transfers so it a lot more work to move 10± gallons around to a place to siphon from. The triclamp cover conversions make it a lot easier.

Another cheapy way is to just use a carboy cap (the orage plastic doohickey). Again, same problem of no pressurized transfer.

I'm pretty sure you can still do a pressurized transfer with the orange carboy cap.

They seem pretty flimsy to me, but I just read the rest of the posts here and it looks like someone is doing it so I won't disagree.

I just really like the sturdy purposeful feel of the stainless triclamp cover conversion.

Pressurized fermentation in sankes is awesome, and offers lots of cool advantages. The 1/6 bbl size is perfect for 5 gal batches, and the 1/2 bbl size is great for 10-12 gal batches. Sanke couplers can be found for next to nothing regularly on craigslist around here, and spunding valves can be made using a few parts from the hardware store. The pre-built tri clamp set-ups look nice too, but they're pricey and require modifications to use for pressurized fermentation.

I'm just using the 1/6 size (want a tall 1/4 size though) for my batches. Since I'm just doing ~5 gallons at a time... Since the tall Sanke kegs are all the same height, I don't think using the auto siphon is an issue. Yes, lifting 10 gallons (80#+) to a place to rack from could be an issue, so if you're doing larger batches, then your parameters will be different.

Personally, I like fermenting in kegs. I don't have the extra cabbage right now to spend ~$75 per keg for the additional hardware as posted earlier... Maybe when I'm fermenting 10 gallon batches inside kegs I will... Or, I'll just hunt down some 10 gallon corny kegs and not really worry about it at all. By the time I start looking to do 10 gallon batches (keeping it all) chances are I'll already be kegging, and have the other items I'll need to do things easier.

I use two 5 gallon sankes for 10 gallon batches. I, (like others) just removed the stem and bought a universal bung that fits right in the stem cavity and place a blow off or airlock.

Mine are stainless steel, and I just soak in hot oxyclean overnight and never had a problem or infected batch out of them. I have one of the bigger 15 gallon ones, but do not use it because it is aluminum. I read on here that storing beer in aluminum is not the best idea.

Ace_Club said:

I'm pretty sure you can still do a pressurized transfer with the orange carboy cap.

Click to expand...

I have the Brewer's Hardware kit that allows pressurized transfer. I also use carboy caps and have tested (accidentally) transferring as high as 20 PSI without issue. I tend to prefer the carboy caps these days, although the first couple times fitting them over the lip of the opening can be a struggle (heat the cap first and it then muscle it over after slipping one side on first)

CO2 pressurized transfer also helps to blow through any potential trub or hop sediment that you accidentally suck up that might otherwise clog if gravity transferring. Blows right through with 5-10 PSI head pressure!

Edit: and for cleaning I made a keg/carboy/cornie washing station with a homer bucket and a copper spray-spear that I run oxy or PBW through and then rinse thoroughly.

I use the Brewers hardware kit. An extra benefit with it that I didn't see mentioned here is that it has a nice SS thermowell in it if you are doing temp controlled fermentations (I do).

I also like the fact that I can pressure transfer right out of it without having to disrupt the keg at all so the trub doesn't get stirred up.

JonW said:

I also like the fact that I can pressure transfer right out of it without having to disrupt the keg at all so the trub doesn't get stirred up.

Click to expand...

I prefer to drive by the outside temp of the keg as opposed to the thermowell, even though mine has it. Tape thermocouple flush to side of keg with a folded paper towel as an insulator. I don't see it as a significant benefit given that I could by many rolls of tape and orange carboy caps for the same price as one BH kit.

I've been fermenting in sankes for ~1 yr now. primary is w/ #10 drilled stopper and airlock.

When transferring, swap the stopper for orange carboy cap. In the center hole of the orange cap is a ss 30" racking cane and the side hole is a tube to attach an air line which is in turn connected to my co2 bottle/regulator. The cap will stay on running ~1-2 psi. I use a radiator clamp to secure the cap to the neck of the sanke and run ~7-9 psi. In the winter, I need to warm the carboy cap to slip it over the sanke's neck.

The output of the racking cane is attached to a hose with a "output" ball lock qd. Before racking, I purge the sanitized receiving corny kegs w/co2 and seal them up. When I'm ready to transfer, I turn on the co2 to build pressure in the sanke and open the pressure relief valve on the corny. It takes between 5-10 minutes to transfer each corny.

I like this method because it's fairly simple and straightforward. The beer, after the yeast is pitched, is never exposed to oxygen until serving.

sorry, I don't have any pictures handy.

How do you gauge level in the cornies?

I cold crash, so there's a condensation line that forms on the keg. You can also go by weight, either scale or simply picking it up.

For those that are fermenting in Sankes, how do you control fermentation temperature? I'm assuming a pretty large fermentation chamber is needed. Or a large fridge.

Reelale said:

For those that are fermenting in Sankes, how do you control fermentation temperature? I'm assuming a pretty large fermentation chamber is needed. Or a large fridge.

Click to expand...

Or a fermentation cellar.

I ferment in 50 liter (about 13 gallons) euro sanke and it's perfect for 10 gallon batches. I do just as you say. I use a #11 rubber stopper and airlock (which will work on a normal sanke as well). I reinsert the spear and use the coupler to force carb with co2 when fermentation is complete. No modification is needed to the keg.

There has been tons written on this on this forum. In particular read Wortmonger's thread on pressurized fermentation.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

here's another thread I participated in that's fairly rich with other links to more sanke knowlege:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rubber-keg-use-210243/

Hugh_Jass said:

I cold crash, so there's a condensation line that forms on the keg. You can also go by weight, either scale or simply picking it up.

Click to expand...

I was wondering about the volume as well.

Hmmm.

This thread has me thinking...

I received two 15.5G sankes recently with plastic tops/bottoms. I think I'm going to try fermenting my next batch in one of them using a carboy cap.

My main issue is moving the vessel. I brew in the garage or in the yard, and my fermentation chamber is in the basement, 40-50' from either location. I'll have to start brainstorming.

I have a chest freezer controlled by a ranco. A sanitized sanke is placed into the freezer. The beer is then racked into the sanke, yeast pitched, and air lock placed.

My typical brewing method is to brew 3 11 gallon batches over a three day timeframe, allow to ferment 3 weeks, rack, clean, repeat...

Reelale said:

For those that are fermenting in Sankes, how do you control fermentation temperature? I'm assuming a pretty large fermentation chamber is needed. Or a large fridge.

Click to expand...

If you have a 4x4 space, you have enough room for fermenting 4 Sankes or having 2 fermentation chambers that can accept 2 Sankes each....

Hugh_Jass said:

When transferring, swap the stopper for orange carboy cap. In the center hole of the orange cap is a ss 30" racking cane and the side hole is a tube to attach an air line which is in turn connected to my co2 bottle/regulator. The cap will stay on running ~1-2 psi. I use a radiator clamp to secure the cap to the neck of the sanke and run ~7-9 psi. In the winter, I need to warm the carboy cap to slip it over the sanke's neck.

Click to expand...

Color me puzzled as to why you use the stopper at all. You're taking the effort to switch to a carboy cap so why not use one from the start?

Also, I don't bother with the radiator clamp and have not had a "pop off" incident even going as high as 20 PSI (which I do not recommend, it just sort of happened)

JohnnyO said:

My main issue is moving the vessel. I brew in the garage or in the yard, and my fermentation chamber is in the basement, 40-50' from either location.

Click to expand...

Hand truck FTW.

Ace_Club said:

Or a fermentation cellar.

Click to expand...

I am glad to see you have come to grips with your situation.

Reelale said:

For those that are fermenting in Sankes, how do you control fermentation temperature? I'm assuming a pretty large fermentation chamber is needed. Or a large fridge.

Click to expand...

Reelale, when I bought my chest freezer for my keezer build, I made sure that it would fit a sanke, in case I wanted to ever put a commercial keg in it. Many on the market don't have the width (front to back inside dimension)- 16". The fridgidaire 7 cu. foot I bought does.

I just recently bought this to be a dedicated fermentaion fridge:

http://www.compactappliance.com/Edg...-Conversion-BR2000BL/BR2000BL,default,pd.html

It's made to be a kegerator, but it includes none of the accessories: Tower, shank, faucet, co2 bottle- stuff I don't need 'cause I already have all that in my keezer. Just need to get the temp controller for it, then my pipeline will be in place- Temp controlled fermentation in the (compact) edgestar, and beer aging/being served in the keezer. I can't wait!

Reelale said:

For those that are fermenting in Sankes, how do you control fermentation temperature? I'm assuming a pretty large fermentation chamber is needed. Or a large fridge.

Click to expand...

I also have a big chest freezer that can fit 6 carboys, and 4 one gallons test batches. The big 15 gallon sanke will fit in place of two smaller 5 gallon sanke’s, or two 6 gallons carboys.

Golddiggie said:

I don't have the extra cabbage right now to spend ~$75 per keg for the additional hardware as posted earlier...

Click to expand...

A used sanke coupler allows you to do everything the BH kit does except the thermowell, and can be had for under $20 in most areas. Even a new one only costs ~$35. Make a spunding valve for another ~$12 and it's even more versatile than the BH kit.

For those of you already fermenting in sankes, you really owe it to yourself to look into doing pressurized fermentations with a spunding valve. It's an easy step, and totally worth it IMO.

Lets see... ~$20-$35 for the coupler plus another $12 for the spunding valve or $1.25 for the bung... Right now, I'll go with the bung option (that just sounds so wrong)...

At least since my kegs are completely intact, I have plenty of future options with them... I could even get some new retention rings, and use them for serving brew if I wanted to get the other hardware...

Having the spears fully intact also helps... Although I am tempted to weld a pair together...

Golddiggie said:

Lets see... ~$20-$35 for the coupler plus another $12 for the spunding valve or $1.25 for the bung... Right now, I'll go with the bung option (that just sounds so wrong)...

At least since my kegs are completely intact, I have plenty of future options with them... I could even get some new retention rings, and use them for serving brew if I wanted to get the other hardware...

Having the spears fully intact also helps... Although I am tempted to weld a pair together...

Click to expand...

I put mine together for under $30 per keg, and the advantages would be well worth triple that cost. Beer is perfectly carbonated right out of the fermenter, can use the same vessel for fermentation and serving, transfers (if needed) are as easy as swapping a QD, can ferment at higher temps without the associated off-flavors, can ferment clean lager-like beers at ale temps, etc, etc. YMMV, but I think it's a viable option.

JuanMoore said:

I put mine together for under $30 per keg, and the advantages would be well worth triple that cost. Beer is perfectly carbonated right out of the fermenter, can use the same vessel for fermentation and serving, transfers (if needed) are as easy as swapping a QD, can ferment at higher temps without the associated off-flavors, can ferment clean lager-like beers at ale temps, etc, etc. YMMV, but I think it's a viable option.

Click to expand...

Please provide said formula. I don't see the advantages in my setup. I have followed that thread and it is an interesting technique. I don't serve from Sankes, so that benefit of carbing in the fermentation and serving vessel is null and void to me.

Aside from that, IMO, the benefits are personal preference and not quantifiable.

JuanMoore said:

I put mine together for under $30 per keg, and the advantages would be well worth triple that cost. Beer is perfectly carbonated right out of the fermenter, can use the same vessel for fermentation and serving, transfers (if needed) are as easy as swapping a QD, can ferment at higher temps without the associated off-flavors, can ferment clean lager-like beers at ale temps, etc, etc. YMMV, but I think it's a viable option.

Click to expand...

None of that matters to me... Especially since I'm not serving from kegs at this time... So while it's well worth the cost to YOU, it's worth nothing to me. Even when I do start serving from kegs, I'll still end up bottling at least part of batches. There will also be batches that I bottle 100% of... I'm not about to put a big barley wine, old ale, or wee heavy on tap... I'd rather have a single bottle to enjoy as I wish. Besides, I'll use the taps for other brews, that I'm going through much faster.

Randar said:

Please provide said formula. I don't see the advantages in my setup. I have followed that thread and it is an interesting technique. I don't serve from Sankes, so that benefit of carbing in the fermentation and serving vessel is null and void to me.

Aside from that, IMO, the benefits are personal preference and not quantifiable.

Click to expand...

Could not agree more... :rockin:

It allows the brewing of completely different styles of beer. Even if the carbonation and serving advantages aren't of use to you, the drastically different flavor possibilities are something anyone can utilize. And FWIW, the differences are quantifiable, as evidenced by Rogue brewing being able to create a beer classified as a Maibock or Helles Bock using an ale yeast at ale temps. It's not for everyone, and YMMV, but I think it's worth mentioning.

Golddiggie said:

None of that matters to me... Especially since I'm not serving from kegs at this time... So while it's well worth the cost to YOU, it's worth nothing to me. Even when I do start serving from kegs, I'll still end up bottling at least part of batches. There will also be batches that I bottle 100% of... I'm not about to put a big barley wine, old ale, or wee heavy on tap... I'd rather have a single bottle to enjoy as I wish. Besides, I'll use the taps for other brews, that I'm going through much faster.

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to talk you into pressurized fermentation, but just want to point out that bottling pre-carbonated beer from a sanke is faster and easier than any other method I've used, especially if only bottling part of a batch. I bottle at least a couple of six packs from every batch, and my spunding valve set-up has made that easier, not more difficult. To each his own, I just don't want people reading this to have any mis-conceptions about pressurized fermentation.

JuanMoore said:

It allows the brewing of completely different styles of beer. Even if the carbonation and serving advantages aren't of use to you, the drastically different flavor possibilities are something anyone can utilize.

Click to expand...

False. Doing it differently does not make it a different style. I could certainly ferment with a clean ale strain at cooler temps and accomplish similar results. The technique just provides a different dial to turn in the process. And if I care about head pressure, I can tune this with a container of water my blow-off hose is dipped in.

JuanMoore said:

And FWIW, the differences are quantifiable, as evidenced by Rogue brewing being able to create a beer classified as a Maibock or Helles Bock using an ale yeast at ale temps.

Click to expand...

And you made this leap of logic how? The primary yeast characteristics of Maibock/Helles are clean, no diacetyl, & fruity esters should be low to none. This can be achieved with no fewer than a dozen commercially available clean ale yeast strains fermented at cool temps and left long enough to clean up after themselves and/or with a short diacetyl rest.

Temp control is still the vital variable and head pressure just changes the translation of temperature to desired characteristic for a given strain. This is why a beer brewed with a given yeast on a commercial scale can be brewed at 78 degrees and achieve the same profile in a small-scale homebrew by fermenting at 68, just as a simple example. You are, partially recreating that head pressure environment by using the pressurized fermentation, but it is still not the same thing as the large scale brewery environment, just somewhere between the 2 point.

Also, ester production is going to be suppressed by the head pressure so a good number of styles will be unachievable or at the very least be brewed in less than ideal circumstances.

Again, it comes back to a preference. Nothing more. You can achieve the same effective results with different techniques. This particular technique does not unlock some secret catacomb of styles unattainable to the rest of the mortal world.

JuanMoore said:

It's not for everyone, and YMMV, but I think it's worth mentioning.

Click to expand...

I thought you said it was worth at least 3 times the cost of doing so? Why wouldn't that be for everyone?

Yes, it is worth mentioning, but there is no reason to make it out to be something it is not.

Golddiggie said:

Now I just need to figure out what I'm going to do with four Sanke keg spears...

Click to expand...

I saw in the classifieds sections awhile back a guy made a mash paddle out of his sanke keg spear. He smashed down one end and welded another flat piece of stainless for the paddle.

If you didn't have another piece of stainless but more sanke dip tubes you could cut lengths of dip tube, smash them down, weld them together to make the paddle.

I have two sanke tubes I might give it a shot!

Edit: Okay I found a picture of the sanke dip tube mash paddle. This wasn't the one I originally saw but it works.

https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/1/medium/DSC00688.JPG

JuanMoore said:

Pressurized fermentation in sankes is awesome, and offers lots of cool advantages. The 1/6 bbl size is perfect for 5 gal batches, and the 1/2 bbl size is great for 10-12 gal batches. Sanke couplers can be found for next to nothing regularly on craigslist around here, and spunding valves can be made using a few parts from the hardware store. The pre-built tri clamp set-ups look nice too, but they're pricey and require modifications to use for pressurized fermentation.

Click to expand...

If you use a sanke coupler, how are you sanitizing the spear valving? Are you going through the step of putting starsan in the keg and forcing it out with CO2?

If you pressure transfer with the spear, are you just cutting off a fixed amount from the spear so you don't get any trub? Seems like a racking cane would allow more flexibility.