Question about bitterness

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wisbob79

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Hey all. I'm on my 2nd brew. My first brew was Midwest's Irish Stout and the one currently fermenting is their Liberty Cream Ale. The Irish Stout turned out ok, but has this weird bitterness to it.

I just cracked the fermenter to get a gravity reading on the Cream Ale, and it has the same exact weird bitterness to it! I don't get it! Here's exactly what I did with the Cream Ale:

Steeped the grains at 155 for 30 minutes. Added the LME, brought to a boil. Added .75 oz Cascade hops beginning of boil. Added 1 oz of Cascade hops for last 2 minutes of boil. Cooled wort to 65 degrees. Stirred vigorously and and poured hard into the bucket to aerate. Topped off wort to a little over 5 gallons. After top off, wort was 68 degrees. Pitched one vial of WLP001, no starter.

According to Fermometer, fermenting wort never got above 66 degrees once fermentation began. Took the gravity reading today (6 days after fermentation began) and we're at 1.009.

Any ideas on the bitterness? It's bugging the crap out of me and ruining my beer.
 
Not to sound unhelpful and all, but "weird bitterness" is too vague a description to use for off-flavor diagnosis. But the good news is your process looks solid. Only thing I would do differently is make a starter, but the lack of one in this case is most likely not the cause - if the strange taste truly is a bitterness.

I'm making large assumptions here, but I would even calculate your BU as a little low for the style? (OG of ~1050, boiling 3 gallons with cascades at 6% AA would be in the 11-12 BU range roughly).

Could you take another taste and give more descriptive adjectives?
 
I get some "weird bitterness" from my tap water, particularly with lighter colored beers. What kind of water did you use, and is there chlorine in it?
 
Sorry for the vagueness of my description. I call it "weird bitterness" because I've never experienced it in any other beer I've ever had. The bitterness doesn't hit until you swallow and then it lingers on your tongue. It's unpleasant to say the least.

Yooper, I'm on a city well, so I'm sure it has some chlorine in it. I've not had my water tested yet, but it doesn't smell overly chlorinated. It is, however, the only thing ingredients wise that both my beers have in common.

Edit: If I had to describe the bitterness...it'd be like the bitterness you get when you lick an envelope shut.
 
Yea, sounds like either that phenolic bandaidy solventy flavor that comes from high fermentation temps, or maybe some tannins (that taste that dries out the back of your tongue and makes you smack your lips when drinking big, young red wines).

Based on your description, though it sounds like your process should have prevented those. I would guess it's water- even a small amount of chlorine or chloramines will give you some weird flavors- they're happy to join up with all sorts of compounds and give you weird tastes. Using some campden (metabisulfite) in your water next time will get rid of any chlorine or chloramines. That's what I would suggest.
 
Ok...let's assume that my water is causing a problem. Will the bitterness caused by the chloramines eventually go away or am I stuck with yuck beer? I know time can heal wounds, but if it's not going to get any better, I'd rather free up the fermenter and dump what's there.
 
They're pretty much there, but the aging of the beer may cover them up a bit and they may fade a little, but it probably won't ever go away. I'd package it up and store the packaged beer to see how it progresses.
 
Gotta ask because I know some new brewers that have done it. Are you boiling with your specialty grains still in the boil kettle?
 
I think I'll bottle this cream ale over the weekend and brew another batch next week using bottled water. Thanks for the help!
 
RLinNH said:
Gotta ask because I know some new brewers that have done it. Are you boiling with your specialty grains still in the boil kettle?
Click to expand...

Nope! Good question though. I steeped the grains and removed the bag from the kettle.
 
That would answer the tanins from the husks then. Hmmmmm. I just don't see water being as issue with the bitterness that you are describing. I'm anxious to see if the bottled water helps. Let us know how your next batch turns out.
 
Maybe I need to drive a couple of bottles up to Yooper since she isn't terribly far away from me...she could tell me what this is! :)
 
OK. As noted in the OP, my Irish Stout had the same bitterness. It's been bottled now for 8 weeks. I just cracked one that I put in the fridge 3 days ago. The bitterness has subsided slightly, but it now has a coppery taste to it. Does that give any clues?
 
Copper and Band Aid flavors are Characteristics of Bleach residue and also fusel alcohols. So my 2 questions would be 1)- Do you use Bleach as a Sanitizing agent and 2) what are your fermentation temps. Please forgive me if these have already been addressed. I haven't read the whole post as I am currently in the middle of a brew session.

As far as Yopper being someone to mail a couple of bottles to, yup, I agree. From everything I have read and the interactions I have had with her, she would be your huckelberry. :)
 
wisbob79 said:
Maybe I need to drive a couple of bottles up to Yooper since she isn't terribly far away from me...she could tell me what this is! :)
Click to expand...

Hahaha- you're threatening to bring me bad beer?!?!

Actually, you're probably right. Maybe not me, but sometimes you can get someone with lots of judging experience to be able to nail the flavor for you. If it's phenolic, that points to water chemistry or infection, for example. If it's tannic, that points towards grain issues, but also water chemistry also. Oxidation also can be a weird bitterness, usually on the sides of the tongue. An experienced judge could probably help you.

For now, I'd try one thing at a time different in each batch. For the next batch, use only distilled or reverse osmosis water. Do it the same exact way, and change only that. If that fixes the problem, then you know it's the water.

For the next batch, use only dry yeast (S05). For the next, use DME. And so on, until the flavor goes away.

I really don't think it's technique, as it's much more likely it's water related. But if you go through fixing those first, and it's still an issue we can consider oxidation, yeast underpitching, and so on.
 
RLinNH said:
Copper and Band Aid flavors are Characteristics of Bleach residue and also fusel alcohols. So my 2 questions would be 1)- Do you use Bleach as a Sanitizing agent and 2) what are your fermentation temps. Please forgive me if these have already been addressed. I haven't read the whole post as I am currently in the middle of a brew session.

As far as Yopper being someone to mail a couple of bottles to, yup, I agree. From everything I have read and the interactions I have had with her, she would be your huckelberry. :)
Click to expand...

I use PBW to clean and Star-San to sanitize. My Stout did have some issues with fermentation temps, but the strange thing is that my Cream Ale had no issues with ferm temps (66-68 deg) and it has the same bitter issue going on. The Stout has only recently developed the metallic taste. The bottles I refrigerated 4 weeks ago did not have that quality.
 
Yooper said:
Hahaha- you're threatening to bring me bad beer?!?!

Actually, you're probably right. Maybe not me, but sometimes you can get someone with lots of judging experience to be able to nail the flavor for you. If it's phenolic, that points to water chemistry or infection, for example. If it's tannic, that points towards grain issues, but also water chemistry also. Oxidation also can be a weird bitterness, usually on the sides of the tongue. An experienced judge could probably help you.

For now, I'd try one thing at a time different in each batch. For the next batch, use only distilled or reverse osmosis water. Do it the same exact way, and change only that. If that fixes the problem, then you know it's the water.

For the next batch, use only dry yeast (S05). For the next, use DME. And so on, until the flavor goes away.

I really don't think it's technique, as it's much more likely it's water related. But if you go through fixing those first, and it's still an issue we can consider oxidation, yeast underpitching, and so on.
Click to expand...

I really hope it's a water issue Yooper. It'll cost me a little extra, but it'd totally be worth it to have beer that tastes right. I'm seriously considering dumping this Cream Ale and starting over with RO water. Is that too extreme?
 
wisbob79 said:
I really hope it's a water issue Yooper. It'll cost me a little extra, but it'd totally be worth it to have beer that tastes right. I'm seriously considering dumping this Cream Ale and starting over with RO water. Is that too extreme?
Click to expand...

WAY TO EXTREME!!! Do not ever dump a beer. It'll get more palatable with age.
 
wisbob79 said:
I really hope it's a water issue Yooper. It'll cost me a little extra, but it'd totally be worth it to have beer that tastes right. I'm seriously considering dumping this Cream Ale and starting over with RO water. Is that too extreme?
Click to expand...

don't dump it (yet)! keep it. Make it again with RO or distilled water, and make sure you use dry S05 yeast because you may well have underpitched with only one vial of WLP001. Using dry yeast if you don't want to pitch two vials of liquid yeast will fix that issue as well.
 
Hey all! Hope you all had a Merry Christmas and are on your way to a Happy New Year! So I checked on my beer again today and it's done fermenting! Sweet! Also, most of the strange bitterness is gone! I'm wondering if it was maybe just a green beer issue. It was delicious though. I think I'm going to let it sit on the yeast for another week (mostly because I don't have time to bottle this weekend) and call it good! Thanks to you all who convinced me not to give it the ol heave ho! Going forward, I'm just going to do the best I can with my processes and exercise some patience!
 

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