Wroxbrew's 20 gallon stout tank build

Like many here on this forum, I am making the jump from 5 gallon all grain brewing on my stove to something bigger and better. After some months of research here, other forums, and "The Electric Brewery", I've settled on my build and it's under way.

I went with Stout tanks for a variety of reasons and I know there is quite a bit of interest in John's systems, so I hope this thread will be a source of information for them and other things.


The brewery is in a 36 sq foot section at the back of my kitchen that was a nook for eating breakfast.

Block Diagram of the Brewery controller, and some pics.

Awesome job WroxBrew! :rockin:

Will_M said:

Awesome job WroxBrew! :rockin:

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Thanks. My big "oops" moment is up next

Freshly picked Cascade

WroxBrew, looks very nice. I will be following your build with interest.

Jim

WroxBrew said:

Thanks. My big "oops" moment is up next

Freshly picked Cascade

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Yum!

Wrox,

I was curious if you got this completed and if you have brewed on it yet. My basement eBuild has been delayed but am still planning a very similar build to yours.

bhchrist said:

Wrox,

I was curious if you got this completed and if you have brewed on it yet. My basement eBuild has been delayed but am still planning a very similar build to yours.

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Yes, I have. I'm now on my 4th batch and starting to get the hang of it. My first batch was a lesson in humility as I wasn't quite finished with the build. The beer was fine, but things did not go smoothly. Here's some pics from my 3rd batch.

I really like the sight glasses from stout, I wish they would sell them as a separate item

Looks fantastic. A few questions if you don't mind.

How do you like the sparge arm? It certainly looks sweet (big tubes of stain tend to look that way) but wonder if you have had any clogging issues during recirculation.

What are you thoughts on the sight glasses on the BK and HLT? Glad you have them, wish you saved the money?

After a few brews, anything you wish you had done differently on the Stout Tank configurations? I know you ordered standard, but as someone going over various options, any first-hand experience would be great.

bhchrist said:

Looks fantastic. A few questions if you don't mind.

How do you like the sparge arm? It certainly looks sweet (big tubes of stain tend to look that way) but wonder if you have had any clogging issues during recirculation.

What are you thoughts on the sight glasses on the BK and HLT? Glad you have them, wish you saved the money?

After a few brews, anything you wish you had done differently on the Stout Tank configurations? I know you ordered standard, but as someone going over various options, any first-hand experience would be great.

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So, the sparge arm works great, but I only use it during sparging. I use a 90 hose barb and tube when recirculating the mash. It's a little tricky changing over, but I havent dropped anything into the mash yet.

I have a love/hate relationship so far with the site glasses. They really help to see progress, and keep track of how much is being used, but taking them apart cleaning them and putting them back together is a bit of a pain. Also, the one in the boil kettle has actually shrunk in diameter and leaks. John at stout is currently getting me a new one. I think it couldn't stand up to a boil for some reason.

I really like the system overall, and still thinking about what I would change if I could. Maybe in a few more brews, I'll have a more definitive answer on that. I know I would order a few more ball valves right from the start.

I would be interested in how your would set it up after the fact. This, and Kal's control panel, is my dream brewery that I want one day.

Since this thread is starting to get active again, over the next few days I'll describe my experiences I've encountered so far with my build and what I've learned from brewing on it so far.

Wrox...paying attention to this thread so no need to PM pics, I'll catch them here.

I am interested in the stout tank design/function. Any more issues with the sight glass?

Do you have any better photos of the sight glass?

Do you have a HERMS coil installed in the HLT? What are dimensions and length? Photos?

scoots said:

I am interested in the stout tank design/function. Any more issues with the sight glass?

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Scoots; My opinion on sight glass is 'only for HLT'. You can do the math on your kettles, find the 'gallons per inch' and use a metal yardstick and be more accurate and easier cleaning. And usually a cheaper kettle. That's an old-school trick. I don't care if I have one on the HLT, just since I don't have to clean it....

I have equipment from Stout Tanks and it is FINE!

Nice Brew Room and Nice Build.:rockin:
Technique with the new equipment come's with time.

sub'd and insanely jealous

wadefisher said:

Scoots; My opinion on sight glass is 'only for HLT'. You can do the math on your kettles, find the 'gallons per inch' and use a metal yardstick and be more accurate and easier cleaning. And usually a cheaper kettle. That's an old-school trick. I don't care if I have one on the HLT, just since I don't have to clean it....

I have equipment from Stout Tanks and it is FINE!

Nice Brew Room and Nice Build.:rockin:
Technique with the new equipment come's with time.

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Thanks Wadefisher. I would tend to agree with your "Only on the HLT" statement. The sight glass is of most use during fly sparging. It takes a long time to do it and your adjusting pump flows in and out of the mash tun for a bit. It's nice to see at a glance the water level and judge the flow. The metal yardstick is a nice trick as you said. Currently my boil kettle glass leaks at both ends now, so I will just have to remove it and cap it off for my next brewing session. I may just leave it that way as it is a pain to clean and just get a yard stick.

WroxBrew said:

Thanks Wadefisher. I would tend to agree with your "Only on the HLT" statement. The sight glass is of most use during fly sparging. It takes a long time to do it and your adjusting pump flows in and out of the mash tun for a bit. It's nice to see at a glance the water level and judge the flow. The metal yardstick is a nice trick as you said. Currently my boil kettle glass leaks at both ends now, so I will just have to remove it and cap it off for my next brewing session. I may just leave it that way as it is a pain to clean and just get a yard stick.

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That's no good that your site glass is leaking. Are the seals broken or not sitting correctly? Have you asked John about it yet?

After a little thought, if I could do it again, there are only 2 things i would change to my stout kettle order.
1. I would have them raise the heater inlet on the HLT about an inch. It is very low in the kettle, and would give you a little more leeway in the element encloser construction. I had to raise my hlt. Currently using a wok base, which is a litle tipsy, but I plan to replace it with something more sturdy.

2. I would like to have a second water fill inlet on the left side of the mash tun. This way the right one would have a Two way valve for mash recirculation and sparging from the HLT and the left would be for mash in and mash out water from my boil kettle. At the moment I have to switch back and forth. Not a huge issue, but the less connecting and disconnecting of hoses makes life easier and lessens the chance for a screw up.

Second batch. First IPA. Pretty darn good beer I say!

Thanks for the pics...I'm not really seeing your clearance issue with your heating element (is it the 90 degree fitting I see in the pic, I have never seen one done up like that?).

Have you considered adding in a 3 way valve to deal with your issue on #2?

Wrox,

Thanks for the feedback. The sight tube observations and the general circulation/element placement comments will really help in planning my system.

Any issues so far with rust on your elements bases? Two things I am strongly considering is requesting a 2" ferrule for the heater elements for easier install with a wider selection of elements and having an additional ferrule to use a Magnesium Anode in the tanks. I have clean, but hard well water and it seems that profile causes more rusting issues.

Bensiff said:

Thanks for the pics...I'm not really seeing your clearance issue with your heating element (is it the 90 degree fitting I see in the pic, I have never seen one done up like that?).

Have you considered adding in a 3 way valve to deal with your issue on #2?

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Yeah, it's not a great picture, suffice to say, that my encloser is lower then the bottom of the tank. It's a 4 inch round water tight box. I had to raise the tank up so the encloser didn't bottom out. Also, I'm up against a wall, so i couldnt just hang the encloser off the back edge of the platform.

2. Yeah, a 3 way valve will do the trick, and I'd also like to put a temp probe on the recirculation output. I'm in the planning stage of what i'm going to do here. The second inlet would just be cleaner overall. It's not a big thing, but would be a nice addition. I'm going to have quite the octopus at that inlet.

bhchrist said:

Wrox,

Thanks for the feedback. The sight tube observations and the general circulation/element placement comments will really help in planning my system.

Any issues so far with rust on your elements bases? Two things I am strongly considering is requesting a 2" ferrule for the heater elements for easier install with a wider selection of elements and having an additional ferrule to use a Magnesium Anode in the tanks. I have clean, but hard well water and it seems that profile causes more rusting issues.

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All good ideas. I'm getting a little rust on the base in the HLT, but not on the boil kettle. I have to clean it before each session.

WroxBrew said:

Yeah, it's not a great picture, suffice to say, that my encloser is lower then the bottom of the tank. It's a 4 inch round water tight box. I had to raise the tank up so the encloser didn't bottom out. Also, I'm up against a wall, so i couldnt just hang the encloser off the back edge of the platform.

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What about that Brewer's Hardware overpriced connection you showed me? Probably what I will end up with because I really don't want some chintzy jockey box stuck to nice polished SS.

Bensiff,

The Brewer's Hardware Element Adapter is the route I am going as well. I will use the 2" if I can have John at Stout install a 2" Tri-Clover Ferrule for the Element port on a special order. Opens up the options for wavy ULWD elements. And it is purdy.

Bensiff said:

That's no good that your site glass is leaking. Are the seals broken or not sitting correctly? Have you asked John about it yet?

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No, it did not leak at first, but as I was boiling my first batch the lower section started to leak. I kept trying to tighten it up, but it got to the point where I could not make it any tighter. After inspection, the end of the plastic tubing actually shrunk in diameter.

Yes, John does know, and I'm waiting on a replacement tube. I flipped the tube so the smaller diameter was at the top, but now after 2 more batches, the other side has shrunk too.I've had no problems with the one in the HLT, so I can only presume this one couldn't handle boiling temp. It was not an overly aggressive boil. I'll keep you all informed on if it gets resolved.

Bensiff said:

What about that Brewer's Hardware overpriced connection you showed me? Probably what I will end up with because I really don't want some chintzy jockey box stuck to nice polished SS.

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I hear you on this and I am contemplating switching to the Brewers Hardware thing, but I have to take a closer look at it. One thing for sure, is that you do need to remove the thread to triclamp fitting to clean it. There is a ton of gunk that builds up in there in the boil kettle that can not be rinsed away. I use a friction pipe wrench to unscrew it from the element to clean after each brew which is easy enough, but I'm not so sure with the Brewers Hardware piece as it looks like one piece, and the ground wire would be an issue with dissasembly. Hopefully its actually a 2 piece assembly. I don't want to deal with disconnecting the electrical connections just to clean it. That would be a non starter to me.

WroxBrew said:

I hear you on this and I am contemplating switching to the Brewers Hardware thing, but I have to take a closer look at it. One thing for sure, is that you do need to remove the thread to triclamp fitting to clean it. There is a ton of gunk that builds up in there in the boil kettle that can not be rinsed away. I use a friction pipe wrench to unscrew it from the element to clean after each brew which is easy enough, but I'm not so sure with the Brewers Hardware piece as it looks like one piece, and the ground wire would be an issue with dissasembly. Hopefully its actually a 2 piece assembly. I don't want to deal with disconnecting the electrical connections just to clean it. That would be a non starter to me.

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Good to know...ah the joys of getting to know a new system.

As far as the site glass...I'm not a huge fan of polycarbonite because of its heat sensitivities. I might go have a glass artist do that for me at some point.

Bensiff said:

Good to know...ah the joys of getting to know a new system.

As far as the site glass...I'm not a huge fan of polycarbonite because of its heat sensitivities. I might go have a glass artist do that for me at some point.

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Yup, but I'm makeing great beer so far and it should only get better. I thought the jump to something like this would set me back in my brewing more then it actually has, but there's still plenty to learn.

The issue with glass, is its easy to break. I could see tightening it just a little to much, and ..oops. I also remember reading in some post of someone accidently wacking their glass one and having it break. If that happened in mid brew that would be quite a freakin mess. As I said earlier I'm having a love/hate relationship with them at the moment.

Great build! For sight glasses i would recommend borosilicate glass tube from Mcmaster Carr.

I saw in your build thread you mention that one thing you would change if you could was you'd raise the level of the element port. Can I ask what level you have it at now and where you'd move it to? It's hard to tell from the picture, but where do you have the thermowell in relation to the element?

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Here's a better picture of what I was trying to describe. You will notice my enclosure is lower then the bottom of the tank. The bottom of the port is about an inch above the tank bottom. You can talk to John at Stout for an exact measurement. I would have just moved it up another inch to give some more space for an enclosure. I do not think it would really effect things too much. The thermowell is about a 1/3 of the way up the tank. You could easily move that up an inch also if you wanted to keep the same distance between the two.

Now that I look at my own picture, it is probably less then an inch from the bottom of the tank.

Many thanks, sir. This will help greatly with design.

Wrox,

I was about to Email John, as I am getting close to pulling the trigger on my tanks (may add to 14.5 Conical as well) when I thought I would ask you first. Are all of the Tri Clover ports, with the exception of the element port, on the tanks 3/4"? I am looking to pair components from John and from Darrin at Brewer's Hardware and see Stout lists 3/4" valves for the tanks. This makes a big difference when buying sanitary "Tees" for temperature probes and the like.

I think everything is 3/4" except possibly the whirlpool port on the boil kettle. I'm working late tonite, so I wont be able to give you a definitive answer on that one till tomorrow. The valves that come with the stout tanks are not full port. They have a 5/8" inside diameter, so there is some restriction coming off the 3/4" ports. The herms coil in the HLT, if your going that route, I think is 1/2".

Thanks. I just sent John a list of questions. I heard that the HERMS connection was smaller. From your previous posts it doesn't sound like you have had an issue with mash recirculation so I am guessing it is not a major issue. By the way, I see you are conditioning and tapping the Citra IPA. Is it the Kern River clone from CYBI? I brewed it 10 days ago and am starting the first dry hopping tonight.

I got a very quick turn around from John to my questions. He said that the TCs that they use are all 1.5" and that most of the pipe size is 1" (the tangential returns are 3/4" pipes). Should make life much easier with the accessories.