Please critique my planned all-grain system

I'm getting ready to build a simple all-grain system, and am looking for a bit of advice. This forum has been invaluable for reading up on this stuff, but I need a bit of a reality check.

I want to go simple, and relatively cheap. BUt I do see the value of spending a bit more at the outset, rather than having to upgrade equipment later.

I'm currently brewing 5-gallon extract batches outside, in an 8-gallon SS kettle on a Bayou Classic burner. I already have an IC.

For a mashtun, I'm going with a 10-gallon cylindrical cooler and a stainless steel braid. Most of my beers start between 1.050 to 1.070, so this should give me plenty of room for batch sparging.

My question is how I should set up the hot liquor tank. With the equipment I have now, I could heat the strike/sparge water as a single batch in my brew kettle, and add to the mash tun as needed. My kettle does not have a spigot, so I will be manually adding the water.

I'll probably collect runnings in one or more bottling buckets. Then, after I've added the second batch sparge, I can fire up the boil.

I see two potential improvements I could make to this setup:

- Buy another cooler for the hlt. This would let me collect runnings in my brew kettle and begin boiling right away, but then I won't be able to regulate the sparge water temperature if I need to (other than letting it cool). I could add a spigot to the cooler, making the sparge water transfer somewhat easier.

- Go whole-hog and buy a second burner, a second pot (probably a 10+ gallon brew kettle), and convert my current brew kettle to a true HLT with thermometer, sight glass, and ball valve.

So, all those who have come before me, what do you think? Is the second cooler a reasonable upgrade, or should I wait and see if the second burner and dedicated HLT makes the most sense?

Cheers,

Q.

I would wait for the capitol to invest in a second kettle and burner. Just me though. A ton of people really prefer the cooler approach as well.

I've done probably 10 all grain batches using a single kettle/single burner. I just collected my wort into ale pail type buckets until I was done sparging, then it all went into the kettle for the boil. It sets you back about 30-40 minutes which isn't much in a 5-6 hour brewday.

Thanks, guys.

Bobby_M, do you transfer strike/sparge water manually (like with a Pyrex pitcher) or does your kettle have a ball valve?

Well, I batch sparge, so I heat my sparge water during my mash in a smaller pot. Then drain into the boil kettle, and add my sparge water to my MLT.

Boerderij Kabouter said:

I would wait for the capitol to invest in a second kettle and burner.

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+1 this is my setup. I would invest in a good 10g kettle to boil in 8g is really pushing it for 5g batch. Then you can heat up your batch sparge water in two pots. Run the first sparge into your boil kettle and fire it up while the second sparge runs off.

GT

Quercus said:

Thanks, guys.

Bobby_M, do you transfer strike/sparge water manually (like with a Pyrex pitcher) or does your kettle have a ball valve?

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Not trying to be bobby here, but this is what I do, too.

I heat all my sparge water for batching and pour it all in after draining my runnings into bottling bucket. Drain the sparge into bottling bucket. Take readings, then into kettle it all goes.

Quercus said:

- Buy another cooler for the hlt. This would let me collect runnings in my brew kettle and begin boiling right away, but then I won't be able to regulate the sparge water temperature if I need to (other than letting it cool). I could add a spigot to the cooler, making the sparge water transfer somewhat easier.

Click to expand...

That's what I did, and I think it works great. The only time I need to regulate temperatures is at dough in when I have a qt of boiling and cold water available for the purpose. For the sparge temperature, I've found that anything between 165 and 170 F is ok, and I have no difficulties in maintaining this temperature without making any adjustments.
A word of warning. Using a pyrex jug to transfer sparge water is not only very slow, but will also result in a very significant temperature drop. I used to do this a long time ago, and that's why I got another cooler for the HLT.

-a.

For the same price as another cooler, you can get a second turkey fryer. Then you can heat up the sparge water and also have a second pot. As you're sparging, you can be heating the runnings getting ready to boil. That's what I went to.

Kayos said:

For the same price as another cooler, you can get a second turkey fryer. Then you can heat up the sparge water and also have a second pot. As you're sparging, you can be heating the runnings getting ready to boil. That's what I went to.

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To be honest, this is what I'm leaning towards. Home Depot usually has a turkey frying kit for about $40.

If I went that route, I wonder if the wall of the cheap aluminum kettle has enough rigidity to install a weldless ball valve.

ajf said:

That's what I did, and I think it works great. The only time I need to regulate temperatures is at dough in when I have a qt of boiling and cold water available for the purpose. For the sparge temperature, I've found that anything between 165 and 170 F is ok, and I have no difficulties in maintaining this temperature without making any adjustments.
A word of warning. Using a pyrex jug to transfer sparge water is not only very slow, but will also result in a very significant temperature drop. I used to do this a long time ago, and that's why I got another cooler for the HLT.

-a.

Click to expand...

OK, ajf...so what temp is your sparge water when you add it to your cooler? What sort of temperature drop do you see there?

Good point about using the pitcher to transfer mash/sparge water...in addition to being sloppy, I can see that being a source of lost heat.

Those aluminum kettles would hold a ball valve. They aren't super heavy duty, but they're not that bad either.

I use 2 pots and a single burner. I drain into the boil kettle while the sparge water is heating or maintaining heat. I don't generally add more that 5 gallons of water at a time so the cheaper 5 gallon kettle does the job for heating water. I use a 2 quart pitcher to transfer water to the cooler until I can safely pick up the pot and dump in the rest. After the last of the sparge water is added I can move the wort to the burner and catch the last runnings in the smaller pot.

Quercus said:

If I went that route, I wonder if the wall of the cheap aluminum kettle has enough rigidity to install a weldless ball valve.

Click to expand...

I am putting one in and I am sure with enough gasket's/o-rings and not too much tightening, it won't be a problem. But until you have a brew stand there is no reason for one. I use hot pads and understand it is HOT liquid. you are never transferring more than 4 gallons at a time, which only weighs ~ 20lbs. And even that, I cut the sparge in half to do a double sparge.

In the short term, I think I'll stick with one pot/one burner, to get a better idea about the direction I want to go. The next upgrade may very well be a second burner and kettle with a weldless ball valve. Along with Beersmith, and a premium membership to HBT.

Thanks for the input, guys and gals. I really appreciate it!

Viva la HBT!

- Go whole-hog and buy a second burner, a second pot (probably a 10+ gallon brew kettle), and convert my current brew kettle to a true HLT with thermometer, sight glass, and ball valve

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This is what I did and I'm glad I never did it any other way.

Quercus said:

In the short term, I think I'll stick with one pot/one burner, to get a better idea about the direction I want to go. The next upgrade may very well be a second burner and kettle with a weldless ball valve. Along with Beersmith, and a premium membership to HBT.

Thanks for the input, guys and gals. I really appreciate it!

Viva la HBT!

Click to expand...

Man....IMO you really gotta get a brew program before you try to do an AG. It makes brew day fun and HUGELY easier -- yea, those weren't really words, I know -- and also makes small recipes and day to day beer ideas possible. It is the most fun thing I have purchased in itself, especially for $20!

Kayos said:

Man....IMO you really gotta get a brew program before you try to do an AG. It makes brew day fun and HUGELY easier -- yea, those weren't really words, I know -- and also makes small recipes and day to day beer ideas possible. It is the most fun thing I have purchased in itself, especially for $20!

Click to expand...

+1 on the software.

I heat my strike and sparge water on my stove using a 20qt canner. It is large enough for all the sparge water for a 5gal batch. If I do a mashout I use a smaller stock pot to bring some water to a boil.

I think a turkey fryer would be an excellent investment for a HLT. Then a stand to make the system 3 tiers becomes the next major upgrade. I don't have room to store the stand and even a second turkey fryer is going to push space but I can dream.
Craig

I've only got about 5 AG batches under my belt, but my process is working kinda good.

I have one burner and a 9gal pot. I heat up my mash water in my pot, then add it in the cooler with the grains. As it is sitting for 60min, I heat my batch sparge water in the pot. Normally it's about 5gal of water because I need 7gal pre boil for a 5gal finish (I guess my boils really roll). I normally go up just a bit past 180. Then through my spigot in the pot, I transfer the water to two smaller pots. They are about 2.75-3 gal pots that my wife had. I split my sparge up into two for better effeciency anyway, so it's not bad. Then I can put my first runnings into the brewpot, and add any heat needed to the first batch of sparge water. Then during the 10min rest, I add heat to the second batch of sparge water as needed. It's alot easier to pour water from the smaller pots, but normally I use my 2qt container (the one I use to volurf) to pour the water over the grains until the pot is almost empty, then I pour.

Not saying it's the best, but it works good for me. I think I'm going to go up to 10gal boils someday, so I'll probably buy a 20gal pot and a bigger burner one of these days.

Kayos said:

Man....IMO you really gotta get a brew program before you try to do an AG. It makes brew day fun and HUGELY easier -- yea, those weren't really words, I know -- and also makes small recipes and day to day beer ideas possible. It is the most fun thing I have purchased in itself, especially for $20!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to messing around with Beersmith...the $20 isn't the issue, but I've had other stuff occupying my time, and I really don't want another time sink until I get some stuff off my plate.

But in a few weeks' time, it's on!

freyguy said:

I have one burner and a 9gal pot. I heat up my mash water in my pot, then add it in the cooler with the grains. As it is sitting for 60min, I heat my batch sparge water in the pot. Normally it's about 5gal of water because I need 7gal pre boil for a 5gal finish (I guess my boils really roll). I normally go up just a bit past 180. Then through my spigot in the pot, I transfer the water to two smaller pots. They are about 2.75-3 gal pots that my wife had. I split my sparge up into two for better effeciency anyway, so it's not bad. Then I can put my first runnings into the brewpot, and add any heat needed to the first batch of sparge water. Then during the 10min rest, I add heat to the second batch of sparge water as needed. It's alot easier to pour water from the smaller pots, but normally I use my 2qt container (the one I use to volurf) to pour the water over the grains until the pot is almost empty, then I pour.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I could operate in a similar fashion; I have a couple of 2-gallon stock pots that could hold almost all my sparge water.

But to me, the real benefit of collecting runnings directly into the boil kettle is being able to start the boil as soon as you drain the mash, and this requires either a cooler as a hlt or another burner.

CBBaron said:

+1 on the software.

I heat my strike and sparge water on my stove using a 20qt canner. It is large enough for all the sparge water for a 5gal batch. If I do a mashout I use a smaller stock pot to bring some water to a boil.

I think a turkey fryer would be an excellent investment for a HLT. Then a stand to make the system 3 tiers becomes the next major upgrade. I don't have room to store the stand and even a second turkey fryer is going to push space but I can dream.
Craig

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm already thinking about the best way to use gravity...I have a patio table that I can use for the 'middle level' of a gravity system, but I'm already thinking about a better solution. The short term will probably be a couple of sawhorses from Harbor Freight and some planks from HD.

Regardless, it will be awhile before I have a permanent or semi-permanent 3-tier system. When I brew, I have to schlep all the stuff out of the garage, and put it all back when I'm done.

I was listening to a Brewing Network podcast a few weeks back where Chris from MoreBeer was talking about their 3-tier sculptures, and how nice it is to have everything already set up when you are ready to brew. Just add water, light flame, add grain, and brew. That does sound nice!

Quercus said:

OK, ajf...so what temp is your sparge water when you add it to your cooler? What sort of temperature drop do you see there?

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For batch sparging, the water in the HLT cooler is 172 F, and gets drained through a short length of tubing into the MLT.
Before starting the sparge, I add near boiling water to the mash which raises the temperature up to 168 - 170 F.
After draining the first runniings, I do two equal sized batch sparges, and the temperature of the grain stays between 165 and 170 F.

-a,

As my sig says, I'm a filthy college student, which means I'm a cheap bastard most of the time. I use two or three stock pots on the kitchen stove for my mash/sparge water and do all my mashing/sparging in the kitchen. All the runnings go directly into the keggle, whicn I stumble out the door with and put on the burner.

Rock on,
D

TheDom said:

As my sig says, I'm a filthy college student, which means I'm a cheap bastard most of the time. I use two or three stock pots on the kitchen stove for my mash/sparge water and do all my mashing/sparging in the kitchen. All the runnings go directly into the keggle, whicn I stumble out the door with and put on the burner.

Rock on,
D

Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat as far as being a cheap (and poor) grad student. But I never thought of using my stove to do the mash and sparge. I live in married housing (meaning I thankfully don't pay for the gas to run my stove) so it would be incredible to be able to do these steps inside and then do my actual "brewing" outside. And as cold as it is in Northern Indiana right now (I'm from the South) I'd happily put off going out there as long as possible. Thanks for the simple, yet brilliant, idea.