Vets

I know I'm not the only vet on hbt but with the current elections and other bs we see on social media am the only that feels like I should have "special" rights as a veteran? I mean we gave up years of our life and wrote a blank check for this country shouldn't we be granted certain rights? Or am I just being silly?

What rights do you want that weren't spelled out in your contract when you enlisted?

I guess I just don't understand. I freely signed up, and did my tours overseas. I got what I signed up for- a salary, and the educational assistance (no GI Bill when I was in, though). I got free health care while I was in. I don't expect anything additional now.

I don't know I look at other country's that you have to be in the military to be a full citizen and have more rights. Whereas in America veterans are not the same I find that weird

i'm a veteran of many years, and i don't feel special. hell, i'm not even eligible for va treatment, not that i'd want those real-life-dodger "doctors" to even prescribe me a vitamin (probably end up with a pain killer instead of b12 anyway). i got what i signed up for, and left with what i left with. i was there in the libyan scuffle in the 80's, and hated qaddafi all my life for it. spent 6 years chasing that b*st*rd... do i feel entitled? no. i earned my $420 a month when i went in

Hum I guess I'm the only one we got paid small and now tons of oxygen wasters have the same rights as we do...,. Never mind

JoeyChopps said:

Hum I guess I'm the only one we got paid small and now tons of oxygen wasters have the same rights as we do...,. Never mind

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joey.. i know how you feel. mine was more of a "negative rant". i think vets deserve a little something extra, but we get nothing except pi$$ed on for "avoiding the real world". i went through machine gun training, sniper training, and trained many others on how to handle guns. civilian usage? none, except range-master. i'm an i.t. upper-level guy

As Yooper asked, what type of rights are you looking for?

I don't know what rights I'm looking for. I have looked to other cultures and even early American culture and seen veterans held above others in status and now that I'm out I don't see what I thought it would be like and I'm kinda pissed off

our training is considered sub-par, even though we control millions of dollars of eqpt. our leadership potential isn't considered, even though i supervised 14 guys at age 21 overseeing $35 million of eqpt, along with 31 missiles, many of them enough to start ww3

lumpher said:

our training is considered sub-par, even though we control millions of dollars of eqpt. our leadership potential isn't considered, even though i supervised 14 guys at age 21 overseeing $35 million of eqpt, along with 31 missiles, many of them enough to start ww3

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This is part of what I'm thinking about being a cut above but that's that way it is

Veterans of the Vietnam war were spit on and cursed at when they returned home. I'm glad that is not the case of our returning veterans today. I personally go out of my way to shake a vet's hand when I see him/her and thank him/her for his/her service. As far as more rights go, what else is there? The only way for Vets to have more rights is to reduce the rights of non-Vets.

annasdadhockey said:

Veterans of the Vietnam war were spit on and cursed at when they returned home. I'm glad that is not the case of our returning veterans today. I personally go out of my way to shake a vet's hand when I see him/her and thank him/her for his/her service. As far as more rights go, what else is there? The only way for Vets to have more rights is to reduce the rights of non-Vets.

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Just because I was not spit on doesn't mean we are not treated like crap when we come though airports I like many veterans were and are still being treated like **** at Baltimore international. So it still happens

JoeyChopps said:

Just because I was not spit on doesn't mean we are not treated like crap when we come though airports I like many veterans were and are still being treated like **** at Baltimore international. So it still happens

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I'm truly sorry to hear that.

annasdadhockey said:

Veterans of the Vietnam war were spit on and cursed at when they returned home. I'm glad that is not the case of our returning veterans today. I personally go out of my way to shake a vet's hand when I see him/her and thank him/her for his/her service. As far as more rights go, what else is there? The only way for Vets to have more rights is to reduce the rights of non-Vets.

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we vets appreciate people who acknowledge our service, but your rights don't have to be reduced at all. e.g. our rights to the commisary were removed (thanks to clinton), our rights to v.a. medical were removed, the education plan was changed to the negative after i got out (but later changed). i get NO benefits on ANY base now, even though i spent years in, and was discharged honorably. most of our privileges were changed in the late 90's (again, thank you, bill)

Yooper said:

What rights do you want that weren't spelled out in your contract when you enlisted?

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annasdadhockey said:

As Yooper asked, what type of rights are you looking for?

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lumpher said:

we vets appreciate people who acknowledge our service, but your rights don't have to be reduced at all. e.g. our rights to the commisary were removed (thanks to clinton), our rights to v.a. medical were removed, the education plan was changed to the negative after i got out (but later changed). i get NO benefits on ANY base now, even though i spent years in, and was discharged honorably. most of our privileges were changed in the late 90's (again, thank you, bill)

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Thank you for your service, as well as answering the original question of "what rights are you looking for?" Now we have a topic to discuss.
I feel that Veterans should be taken care of . without them, I can't do whatever it is that I do freely.

As a vet I agree there are times that I feel like I am, I don't want to say better then people I don't know how to word it. But then I know what I gained in my time in. Sure I blame my scars on the military itself but it's all apart of life. Money aside I get the help i need and that's all I ask. I'm proud of what I did and all I served with and I really cant ask for anything More because what makes me better?

I am a vet. I served in iraq in 2003. I volunteered for military service. I was payed well (considering all expenses were paid) and got to see parts of the world I never thought I would. I agree that we should be able to access the commissary and other benefits bit as to more rights... I don't know. Nobody forced me to choose the military over other life choices.

donjonson said:

I am a vet. I served in iraq in 2003. I volunteered for military service. I was payed well (considering all expenses were paid) and got to see parts of the world I never thought I would. I agree that we should be able to access the commissary and other benefits bit as to more rights... I don't know. Nobody forced me to choose the military over other life choices.

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Perhaps those who were drafted deserve more.

cfonnes said:

Perhaps those who were drafted deserve more.

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Agreed

I'm not saying that we should take rights away from others to give to vets to make them "special." Just little things would be cool like lower mortgage rates and maybe some tax cuts just little perks. Like certain states offer little things for vets however I live in Ga which gets you a free driver license so whoppty do.

I'm an Army vet, spent time in Afghanistan. Have to agree with Yooper on this one. I volunteered to do it, loved (almost) every minute of it, and still have pangs of regret for getting out. The Army was very good to me and I only have a couple of scars and near death experiences to complain about. Besides, I was an infantryman. I got paid doing what every boy dreams of: shooting guns, blowing stuff up, jumping out of airplanes, all that fun stuff. My best friends are those I served with. They are godfathers to my children and will carry me off to the grave one day. On balance, I think I came out ahead.

This one is almost impossible to field without bringing politics into the matter, so I'm going to do some tapdancing.

If the new perks you are looking for are qualitative such as being allowed to park in handicapped spaces or perhaps a federal handgun carrying permit, thats one thing.

However, no matter how you would implement a "right" such as your example of a lower mortgage rate, what you are refering to is a federal social program or subsity. Mortgage companies are in the business of making money, and the revenue they would lose would either a) come out of tax dollars in the form of a subsidy or in the form of lost tax revenue (ie giving a veteran a tax credit towards his mortgage, resulting in lost tax revenue) b) a beaurocracy such as the VA would be forced to go into the mortgage business. Mortgage companies would lobby hard against being "forced" to provide home loans to veterans at lower rates and would argue that it is big government hindering private business. Mortgage companies AND a huge chunk of private citizens would rail against the creation of "yet another" beaurocracy. Any right or priviledge accorded to a veteran that can be quantified in dollars and cents would run into the same problems that social security and HUD do, and it wouldnt be pretty.

Fair enough then I will take a free carry permit. Make that happen cheesy

JoeyChopps said:

Fair enough then I will take a free carry permit. Make that happen cheesy

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Damn auto correct Creamy

Robert A. Heinlein put forth an interesting theory dealing with the difference between "civillians" and "citizens" in his book Starship Troopers. Here is a brief excerpt from the Wikipedia synopsis:

"The people of the Terran Federation are either "Citizens" or "Civilians". Everyone is born a "Civilian", and at age 18 every "Civilian" has the right to enroll for a minimal 2-year term of "Federal Service". In theory a completed term of Federal Service ensures a "Citizen" is willing to put the needs of the community before their own personal well-being. This is because Federal Service is tough and dangerous (by design). It can involve joining the military, being a human guinea pig, testing survival equipment, or manual labour. The Federation makes it quite easy to quit a term of service before completion (even during war-time), but once someone has quit they are never allowed to enroll again. This is to ensure that all volunteers are dedicated, whilst also discouraging people from leaving.

The Federation makes the opportunity of Federal Service open to everyone, able-bodied or not. A doctor giving a medical examination says "if you came in here in a wheelchair and blind in both eyes and were silly enough to insist on enrolling, they would find you something silly to match. Counting the fuzz on a caterpillar by touch, maybe." The only bar to Federal Service is a requirement for a psychiatrist to determine you can understand the oath.

"Civilians" are neither discriminated against, nor deprived of legal rights other than that of the ballot. Several examples from the book bear this out, particularly the fact that Juan Rico's family is prosperous and lacks for nothing save the right to vote (which Rico's father regards as "useless" anyway).

Only after completing a term of Federal Service can "Civilians" become "Citizens" and gain the right to vote."

Now that's just fiction & I'm not saying we should or shouldn't adopt it, I'm just saying that it's an interesting theory and seemed to have merit to this thread.
Regards, GF.

Thanks for that reading material I agree it's a little far fetched but interesting none the less.

I was actually thinking about ST when I first read this thread. On the surface, giving combat veterans a thank you gift of some sort seems like a no-brainer. However, what this could be, practically, is a different story.

One thing I support adamently is that those combat veterans who have been in high-stress situations during their tours (perhaps not the helicopter mechanic stateside or the quartermaster, which is not to diminish their service) receive mandatory therapy at the end of their tour. A cousin of mine who spent almost his entire adult life being shot at and on two occassions blown up in Afganistan and Iraq came home to a normal life. To cope with his traumas he turned to alcohol, and honestly, he was a legal liability. He'd cheated death so many times, what were the chances that the jealous husband could take him down at the bar or that a car crash would take him out? It wasnt until about 3 years into civilian life, and waking up in the drunk tank a few times, did he seek therapy and alcohol abuse counceling, which he had to pay for himself.

If the armed forces spend so much time and money on training you to be a military man, they should spend time and money retraining you to be a civilian.

JoeyChopps said:

Just little things would be cool like lower mortgage rates and maybe some tax cuts just little perks. Like certain states offer little things for vets however I live in Ga which gets you a free driver license so whoppty do.

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I got a VA home loan, reduction on my real estate taxes, the GI Bill that paid well above and beyond my college costs ultimately sending me on a few vacations, a full ride to state college for 2 semesters (still collected GI Bill), 3 extra vacation days at work every year that non-Vets don't get, various discounts and rebates on all kinds of things including the two Jeeps I purchased, and I'm sure I'm missing some.

The number one benefit is when people say thank you to me even though they don't have to, ever.

Why do we deserve anything special for our service? It defeats the purpose of being a quiet professional and we already get plenty anyway. Maybe you should look into Veteran's benefits offered by other states and move.

And oh yeah, on a whole, infantry training doesnt translate well into civilian life. Would I support a plan to convert some of my tax dollars into a plan to give retiring veterans job training? Absolutely.

lumpher said:

our training is considered sub-par, even though we control millions of dollars of eqpt. our leadership potential isn't considered, even though i supervised 14 guys at age 21 overseeing $35 million of eqpt, along with 31 missiles, many of them enough to start ww3

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Right, but the people you commanded were trained by someone else, wearing equipment made by someone else, overseeing highly complicated equipment designed and built by someone else, all paid for by the people you are now demanding treat you "special."

I feel veterans are already fairly compensated and recognized for their admittedly substantial sacrifices.

It sounds to me like the OP is experiencing what a lot of military personnel report going through upon reintegrating into society. Specifically, after seeing such raw and horrific things, and operating as part of such a tight and cohesive unit, he perceives the rest of society as "soft" and unworthy. I personally have no experience with this, I'm only pointing it out to suggest that perhaps the OP would benefit from talking to a mental health professional before he does something impulsive.

Thank you Airborne for saying what I was thinking. After getting out after eight years in the Marine Corps, I feel I got out ahead with the intangibles like leadership skills, work ethic, and perspective that I know gives me a leg up, not to mention the benefits I have had such as seeing the world for free, a college education, and a rocking deal on a new Jeep while deployed. You get out of life what you put in gents, there are no shortcuts.

CreamyGoodness said:

And oh yeah, on a whole, infantry training doesnt translate well into civilian life. .

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Maybe on a technical level. True, no one has ever asked me to break down a 240b in a job interview. But I think it prepares you for other things. Most people don't have the opportunity to lead others at such a young age, have to maintain and account for the massive amounts of equipment, have to deal with adversity on the same levels. Those sorts of skills do translate pretty well in my opinion.

Yknow what Vince, you're right, I wasn't thinking about the intangibles. What I had in my head was something like the fact that the helicopter mechanic or the guy who purifies water (et Al et Al et Al) have a series of very tangible line items on their resume.

I kind of agree in principle that vets should be given compensation for putting their lives on the line for this country. As an emotional issue, we owe vets more than we can repay.
As a realistic issue though, I start to change my mind and think like Yooper and others here - you got paid, you got trained, you got experience. Purely from a supply/demand point of view, you got exactly what you were worth, as long as you weren't drafted.

So I thank our vets whenever I know they are one, but whether you get thanked or not, you get to carry around in your heart the fact that you've saved lives, promoted freedom, and protected your country from oppression. That's actually priceless.

First off - Thank you to all of our vets, your volunteered service is way above and beyond what the average citizen would bear to live in a free country.

I do think vets should get a little something extra, not rights per say but perks definitely I grew up in San Antonio with multiple military bases all around us, most of my friends were military brats. Back then even the retired servicemen had access to some extra services such as commisary and I believe hospital access (not that the doctors were very good). VA loans are a nice extra, and the GI bill is amazing. For anyone who went to college without it, you know how those payments seem to follow you forever. I would definitely support federal concealed carry permits for vets, afterall they were trained for it, and maybe discounted ammo! At the same time i see the others points that volunteering for service could be seen as cheapened by others if it has too many perks with it.

The best thing we can do for our Vets is to support them when they come home. Sorry to hear about your expiriences in Baltimore, I know around here if somone disrespected a service member, they might find themselves without use of some bodily appendages. My BIL served 5 years in Iraq and when he came home he needed some time to decompress and get through school. Between my wife and I and his mom, he essentially lived for free for four years and this really helped him be able to get some perspective on being a civilian again and reintegrate.

Welcome fellow vet. Better to think in grandiose terms than go down to the gutter like "we fought so that others could have cheap gas for their suvs". It still puts you in a small group of people regardless of the benefits. If the benefits were so awesome everyone would weigh in and want a piece. But it is hard in only the ways a vet and their family get to understand.


Sorry I keep editing. One thing that would be nice is job placement, yes? There should be no unemployed Vets...none...nada. Not that I'm unemployed, just under haha.

First off (being the op) I don't need any kind of mental help. If I really disliked civilians I wouldn't be one now and wouldn't have married my oxygen wasting wife (haha). I and many of my co-workers that are young vets feel the we deserve a little extra. Does that make us wrong? I don't think so I think as mentioned we are new to being civilians/ adults in a different situation because most of us joined at 18 I believe it's just a new chapter in our lives and its way different then the military. I have really enjoyed all the discussion on the topic. Chopps

JoeyChopps said:

I don't need any kind of mental help.

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Then you must not have been a marine I'm guessing air force from the location?

My sister was in Monterey Bay for language school, near one of the most liberal areas on the planet. They would run on the beach, and some people would yell "There goes another body bag". Granted they were probably crazy beach bums, but hey you can't generalize everyone right?

mbobhat said:

Then you must not have been a marine I'm guessing air force from the location?

My sister was in Monterey Bay for language school, near one of the most liberal areas on the planet. They would run on the beach, and some people would yell "There goes another body bag". Granted they were probably crazy beach bums, but hey you can't generalize everyone right?

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Gotta be a little.nuts to join The Corps

Right you are I was a Air Force kid. However I was never stationed at robins afb. I was stationed at elmendorf afb Anchorage ak and Albuquerque nm. I never said I wasn't a little crazy I just don't need help. Most vets have difference sense of humor then non vets I have found.