I can't believe it. I used to respect Megadeth as quility musicians but I just caught some live concert (something... blood) on some HD channel and he was clearly lip syncing the entire show. Epic fail.
Dave Mustaine = Lipsyncer
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Jeesh, Dave Mustaine and Milli Vanilli in the same category. It's blasphemous.
Next thing, somebody will tell me Santa Claus doesn't exist.
Next thing, somebody will tell me Santa Claus doesn't exist.
I'll try to regain your hero worship....Are you sure it was live and not edited and wasn't just a crappy digital editing job with the audio and video out of phase?
Of course in HD you'd really be able to see if something wasn't kosher...
Of course in HD you'd really be able to see if something wasn't kosher...
OP
OP
Nah, it was live footage and you could tell that it was just too produced and tight and you could tell he wasn't putting the kind of air out that some of those passages would require. Anyone that sings live in front of a metal band knows you have to practically keep your lips on the mic to have it cut. He was like 6" away the whole time.
You know that most "Live" performances are "cleaned up" in post production. Not many artists would play back a raw performance and say, "Yeah, let's sell that to our fans!"
Generally they will sit in a studio and do retakes of certain things which fail their Quality Standards. It's still sort of "live", since you are seeing the actual performance, it's just that the sound quality is improved a bit. At least that is how they see it.
Generally they will sit in a studio and do retakes of certain things which fail their Quality Standards. It's still sort of "live", since you are seeing the actual performance, it's just that the sound quality is improved a bit. At least that is how they see it.
I looked on some music boards to see if anyone caught it as well...no go..but googling turns up the fact that as recently as 2002 he was known to do it..mostly during his phases of being on drugs and booze and too f'ed up to really sing...
OP
OP
I know they do that. Anyone compare the original live footage of Offspring from Woodstock99 and the later aired repeats? Holy vocoder batman. If they were doing cleanup on this one though, it was a full delete and replace track. I just lose respect when they can't perform to standard without tricks.
Watch at about 1:35 when he says "sing louder" before the second chorus. He's already a foot away from the mic.
Watch at about 1:35 when he says "sing louder" before the second chorus. He's already a foot away from the mic.
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DeadDoc
Well-Known Member
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSsJ19sy3JI]YouTube - RickRolled[/ame]
That freakin' sucks
GearBeer
Well-Known Member
Hmm.. maybe it's the crappy small screen on my desktop here at work, but I'm not seeing what you're saying.
At the worst, they made "louder" louder...
At the worst, they made "louder" louder...
I don't care for it either. I'm not interested in a studio version of what is supposed to be LIVE. I remember when Shania Twain and Gwen Stefani each performed at superbowl halftime a few years back. Shania lipsynced and wore a short black skirt. Gwen sang live and I dont' remember what she wore, but I remember I liked her live singing much better, even though it was a bit rough. I just want to hear them sing FOR REAL!
Wicked Daddy
Well-Known Member
When I fronted a metal band years ago, our rule was that if we couldn't do it live, we didn't do it in the studio. Mustaine doesn't actually "sing". He talks, yells and occasionally shows some modicum of melody. So I can't understand why he wouldn't perform his vocals live. It's not like he is pushing the limits of his voice!
What a wuss. He didn't even break a sweat.
What a wuss. He didn't even break a sweat.
OP
OP
At a live show like that, stepping a few inches away to the side of the mic means you don't hear anything at all (unidirectional). I guess you'd have to see more of the show (I watched maybe a half hour before I got disgusted) but you'd definitely see that what you heard was not what he was doing live.
Ice9
Well-Known Member
I know on FIOS here almost all of the HD channels, the synch is off between the sound and the video. This looks like what is going on here. But it does sound extremely "studio" like for a live vocal recording.
Mustaine-adeth didn't lip sync when he played here with Lamb of God a couple of years back. i guess i got lucky.
it's too bad he's such a great guitar player because otherwise he's an egomaniacal ******.
it's too bad he's such a great guitar player because otherwise he's an egomaniacal ******.
OP
OP
I guess I can understand the pressure of recording a DVD so I'm guessing it's a post production overdub rather than lipsync but they should have just used the original track.
blacklab
Well-Known Member
The whole song seems overdubbed. It doesn't even sound like a concert. It sounds like someone playing a CD with people cheering in the background.
dubbing is ALWAYS stupid. i hate dubbed movies, dubbed anime, dubbed concert recordings, all of it.
Clayton
Well-Known Member
i beleave thats nick on the drums so thats old !
and anyway you cant look at a live large recording and asume its dubbed
just look at what thay did at the last wood stock to try sync the monitor towers becase the spped of sound was too slow to keep every thing jiveing,
that and i know dave uses a vocal compresser,, i really think you need to do some study on live sound production and directional high end mics useding compressers..... the video is the speed if light if the speakers have 500 foot runs from the amp and vocal pre amps to the sound board and then to the main amps and then to the monitors there can be a real delay
and with a directional mic you can be 1 foot away... and if you are using floor monitors you really dont want some omi mic
and anyway you cant look at a live large recording and asume its dubbed
just look at what thay did at the last wood stock to try sync the monitor towers becase the spped of sound was too slow to keep every thing jiveing,
that and i know dave uses a vocal compresser,, i really think you need to do some study on live sound production and directional high end mics useding compressers..... the video is the speed if light if the speakers have 500 foot runs from the amp and vocal pre amps to the sound board and then to the main amps and then to the monitors there can be a real delay
and with a directional mic you can be 1 foot away... and if you are using floor monitors you really dont want some omi mic
GearBeer
Well-Known Member
Fansubbers=my heros (Not as big as servicemen, please don't stomp on me for saying that on Veterans Day)
OP
OP
So wait, are you saying you don't think it's overdubbed but just a perception issue?
MikeG
Well-Known Member
It's clearly not the studio recording lyrics. It seems to me that it's more trouble that it's worth to record a "live" version of the lyrics and lip-sync that.
It's also possible that that mic is not live and he's using one of those "invisible" booms that attach to your head and the mic is just a prop.
It's also possible that that mic is not live and he's using one of those "invisible" booms that attach to your head and the mic is just a prop.
I just saw this concert while flipping through channels, and I'd consider myself a fairweather Megadeth fan, but anyway, I'm pretty much 95% sure it's a sync job. As I'm watching it now actually, it just bugged me so much that I did a google search for "dave mustaine lip sync", and I found myself here. The more I watched it, it seemed more clear that all the instrumentation was live or mostly live since every hand movement seemed to match what I was hearing quite well. But the more I watched Dave's mouth (or tried to), I started to think, did I miss something? Did Dave hurt his throat severely at some point and is now unable to sing, and so he has to do this in order to plat shows? Does everybody know this and accept it? Apparently it's not public knowledge.
I can see that it's not a live vocal performance for 4 reasons really:
1) He's not pushing or performing convincingly in a manner that sounds like what I'm hearing. He really just looks like he's mumbling.
2) There are many times where the lips simply don't match the syncopation of the recording (out of sync)
3) The angle of the microphone he's using isn't right. It's pointing up at the ceiling, and his mouth is usually off axis, which in a live performance would be much less than ideal as it would sound too dull to pick up anything useful especially since they're using stage monitors rather than in-ear monitors which makes for a very noisy stage, and using eq to compensate for dull vocals would bring out an unacceptable amount of ambient noise bleed. Also it seems like the mic was positioned that way to hide his face.
4) His farewell address (goodnight San Diego) at the end of the show indeed DID seem to be a live performance, but his voice sounded extremely messed up and hoarse, in stark contrast to what was heard during the musical performances which sounded way too tight.
My guess is that the vocals were performed live for everyone who was actually at the show, but in post production, they found the lead vocals to be mediocre, weak, with excessive stage noise, not acceptable for TV. Dave came in for a studio recording pass and they completely replaced the original vocal track, since even if some parts of the live vocal were performed well, they likely did not sonically match the studio pass, which would be far too distracting and obvious to mix and match.
I can see that it's not a live vocal performance for 4 reasons really:
1) He's not pushing or performing convincingly in a manner that sounds like what I'm hearing. He really just looks like he's mumbling.
2) There are many times where the lips simply don't match the syncopation of the recording (out of sync)
3) The angle of the microphone he's using isn't right. It's pointing up at the ceiling, and his mouth is usually off axis, which in a live performance would be much less than ideal as it would sound too dull to pick up anything useful especially since they're using stage monitors rather than in-ear monitors which makes for a very noisy stage, and using eq to compensate for dull vocals would bring out an unacceptable amount of ambient noise bleed. Also it seems like the mic was positioned that way to hide his face.
4) His farewell address (goodnight San Diego) at the end of the show indeed DID seem to be a live performance, but his voice sounded extremely messed up and hoarse, in stark contrast to what was heard during the musical performances which sounded way too tight.
My guess is that the vocals were performed live for everyone who was actually at the show, but in post production, they found the lead vocals to be mediocre, weak, with excessive stage noise, not acceptable for TV. Dave came in for a studio recording pass and they completely replaced the original vocal track, since even if some parts of the live vocal were performed well, they likely did not sonically match the studio pass, which would be far too distracting and obvious to mix and match.
llazy_llama
Well-Known Member
Umm... Welcome to HomeBrewTalk?
lol, good resurrection...bad mustaine.
I actually am watching the very same video mentioned in the original post.
Not even 10 seconds into watching I thought "Wow, is Mustaine lip syncing???" and had to google search for info. Found this post. Absolutely 100% agree. Lip syncing is for Britney Spears, and pop stars. Very produced sound, and Mustaine clearly put no effort into his vocals. I also have heard him live before and when he actually sang he sounded horrible. So that was another tip off for me.
Big thumbs down.... lots of respect lost, unless he had a legitimate reason for lip syncing (ex. throat problems).
edit: lol @ kumputer's post, as I did the exact same thing to get here.
Edit2: actually some of the songs it's a bit more convincing, but Sleepwalker was just brutally obvious that it was lip synced.
Not even 10 seconds into watching I thought "Wow, is Mustaine lip syncing???" and had to google search for info. Found this post. Absolutely 100% agree. Lip syncing is for Britney Spears, and pop stars. Very produced sound, and Mustaine clearly put no effort into his vocals. I also have heard him live before and when he actually sang he sounded horrible. So that was another tip off for me.
Big thumbs down.... lots of respect lost, unless he had a legitimate reason for lip syncing (ex. throat problems).
edit: lol @ kumputer's post, as I did the exact same thing to get here.
Edit2: actually some of the songs it's a bit more convincing, but Sleepwalker was just brutally obvious that it was lip synced.
Clayton
Well-Known Member
guys come one ,, its you-tube.. when you re-encode video from one format to the next it is very common for the audio to become off sync,, have you guys never downloaded pirated moives?
most of time thay are ripped from a dvd in the mpg2 format and re-encoded to xvid dvix or some other mp4 codec , and; on the old ones , crappy ones and thoes done by neophytes the audio is always off, the audio and video are to complety defernt data streams and it most common formats there are no times stamps to help keep the encoder in time.
but hell who knows maybe he is but i have seen him before and he had no qualms about squaking at us live
most of time thay are ripped from a dvd in the mpg2 format and re-encoded to xvid dvix or some other mp4 codec , and; on the old ones , crappy ones and thoes done by neophytes the audio is always off, the audio and video are to complety defernt data streams and it most common formats there are no times stamps to help keep the encoder in time.
but hell who knows maybe he is but i have seen him before and he had no qualms about squaking at us live
OP
OP
My OP clearly says "on some HD channel", not youtube. The audio wasn't out of sync. As a drummer, I would have seen that.
theonecynic
Well-Known Member
Never a truer word spoken my son! Looks like Big Dave is taking the easy route these days... Likewise, I'm glad to say that the two times I saw them, they didn't seem to be doing this! (And Jimmy DeGrasso was awesome!)
You need to get off your high horse. He's only human. You have not idea what the circumstances were behind him having to lipsynch...I saw the same show and YES he was clearly lip synching....there's not doubt, BUT: I think you are being a bit critical. Dave has been thru a lot of **** in his life and its probably taking its toll. Just be glad that he is at least still performing and staying true to his sound (unlike sell-out-allica)...I still enjoyed the show despite the fact that he was lipsynching...Dave is one helluva guitarist and thats all that counts...
OP
OP
LoL, I think this goes down as the most non brewer attracting thread ever. When you get the point where you can't sing a live show anymore, it's time to pack it in. Performers who rely on their voices don't get a free pass. If you let Dave slide, you have to do it for Ashlee Simpson too. I'd buy the bit about him being a helluva guitarist but if you stand in front of the mic, you better sing too. Metallica might have sold out, but last I checked, Hetfield is still making the sound that comes over the PA.
He should have never been behind the mic in the first place. I like some of the music, but srsly...dude has a terrible voice.
MikeG
Well-Known Member
I get a chuckle every time this thread gets bumped.
Dunno why every Mustaine fan like slownlo has to compare to Metallica...Metallica won, get over it. Unless that is Rock Band makes an entire game based on Megadeth :O.
histo320
Well-Known Member
couldn't have said it better myself.
They both suck now...there's a comparison for ya. No one won.
neko
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen a post that has attracted so many first time posters. Maybe this will get them into homebrewing.
Anyway, I don't really care much for Megadeth but checked out the video to see what was going on. It does seem kinda fake, but I might not have noticed if someone hadn't told me. That is until 3:55 in the video on the first page. He starts "signing" at the right time, but he closes his mouth and steps away from the mic while you can clearly hear his voice continue for another second or two.
It seems kind of strange to defend his syncing based on the crap he's been through. What if all the guitars were dubbed? "Oh, he took too much crazy stuff in the past and he just can't get his body together to play tonight." I saw a Boston concert about 6 years ago (for free in the box seats!) and the lead singer was like, "Hey this is xxx, he's helping me out with some singing parts now because I can't hit the high notes anymore". I'd never heard that happening before, but at least he came out and admitted it. I would be disappointed if I were at a concert and expected all these high notes, but never got them.
My brother went to a Cure concert back in the day and it was one of his favorite bands. He was really bummed out because Robert Smith lip synced the whole show. I guess it happens across all genres of music, but if I'm paying money to see a live show or buying a DVD I fully expect everyone to actually play their instruments and sing the songs.
Anyway, I don't really care much for Megadeth but checked out the video to see what was going on. It does seem kinda fake, but I might not have noticed if someone hadn't told me. That is until 3:55 in the video on the first page. He starts "signing" at the right time, but he closes his mouth and steps away from the mic while you can clearly hear his voice continue for another second or two.
It seems kind of strange to defend his syncing based on the crap he's been through. What if all the guitars were dubbed? "Oh, he took too much crazy stuff in the past and he just can't get his body together to play tonight." I saw a Boston concert about 6 years ago (for free in the box seats!) and the lead singer was like, "Hey this is xxx, he's helping me out with some singing parts now because I can't hit the high notes anymore". I'd never heard that happening before, but at least he came out and admitted it. I would be disappointed if I were at a concert and expected all these high notes, but never got them.
My brother went to a Cure concert back in the day and it was one of his favorite bands. He was really bummed out because Robert Smith lip synced the whole show. I guess it happens across all genres of music, but if I'm paying money to see a live show or buying a DVD I fully expect everyone to actually play their instruments and sing the songs.
It's cool that when you google Dave Mustaine lip syncs, that this thread is the number one return.
It's pathetic that people have to go through the hassle of creating an HBT account just to bash the OP.
It's pathetic that people have to go through the hassle of creating an HBT account just to bash the OP.
OP
OP
I'm open to all genres of music, even the ones that have pre-production tracks at the very core of a live show like NIN. I do however expect ALL of the vocals I hear to be derived on stage from someone's throat. I guess I'm crazy like that.
Just to clarify, I'm sure he wasn't lipsyncing the show which is moving your lips to prerecorded vocal tracks. What he did, probably by his DVD producer's demand, was to studio track the vocals to be placed inline with the other audio from that show. The vocals probably sounded way too ****ty to be a part of the DVD. This isn't the first time it was done and it's not a tragedy by any means. All artists work with studio tools to clean up the recordings they are trying to sell. They can and regularly do use pitch correction tools on otherwise good takes.
Just to clarify, I'm sure he wasn't lipsyncing the show which is moving your lips to prerecorded vocal tracks. What he did, probably by his DVD producer's demand, was to studio track the vocals to be placed inline with the other audio from that show. The vocals probably sounded way too ****ty to be a part of the DVD. This isn't the first time it was done and it's not a tragedy by any means. All artists work with studio tools to clean up the recordings they are trying to sell. They can and regularly do use pitch correction tools on otherwise good takes.
Holy thread bumping, noob!!! You're very first post in this HUUUUUUGGGGEEEE forum, and you stumble upon this thread and decide to use your trump post, your into...here?
LOL...
I think mine was in the Paris Hilton Panites thread...but at least that was brewing related....sortoff. LOL
Welcome!
But bashing the OP of a thread, is uncool.
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