Imperial/Double/Doppel/Strong/Stark Hefeweizen recipe?

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MBM30075

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Ok, so I don't care what I call it, but I'm currently drinking a Sam Adams Imperial White, and I'm liking it. I want to make something near this.

I'm thinking of calling it HefeStark! (If you get German, you know it means "Strong Yeast", but since everyone calls Hefeweizen "Hefe", it kinda fits).

(Edit: I started typing this last night and my computer died. I went ahead and did what follows.)

I have a batch of Hefeweizen that I started last week. I didn't get a full 5 gallons, but rather something more like 4 gallons @ 1.049 OG. I tried a true no-sparge technique and only got 50% efficiency.

(Recipe:
5 lbs. Belgian Pilsner
5 lbs. German Wheat
.5 lbs. Munich Malt
.5 oz. Tettnang 5.2% @ 60 min.
Danstar Munich Wheat dry yeast)

I've decided to add 5 pounds of honey and enough water to bring the total volume up 5 gallons.

Here's my math:

OG 1.049 @ 4 gallons, diluted to 5 gallons = 1.039.
5 lbs. honey (@ 1.035 ppg) diluted in 5 total gallons = +35 points.
So, new SG (pre-ferment) would be 1.074.

I think I would anticipate all of the honey to attenuate and about 75% of the wort, so my FG should still be about 1.010, right? Or would I still get about 75% of overall apparent attenuation?

If I got it down to about 1.010, that would be 8.4% ABV. Would that require a lot of aging?

Anyone have any idea how this will taste?
 
Whoa. IMO you should have left well enough alone. Nothing wrong with a 1.049 Hefe. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and move onto the next batch. 5#'s of honey is WAY too much for a Hefe. It will be a very dry beer to say the least. Be prepared to add more yeast if it stalls. Let us know how it turns out.
 
Whoa. IMO you should have left well enough alone. Nothing wrong with a 1.049 Hefe. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and move onto the next batch. 5#'s of honey is WAY too much for a Hefe. It will be a very dry beer to say the least. Be prepared to add more yeast if it stalls. Let us know how it turns out.

All of your points are valid, but half the fun of brewing your own if is brewing something you can't get anywhere else. I'm not sure that this beer would be for me, but then I'm starting to work the other direction - toward session beers so that I can have a few pints and not be useless for the rest of the day.

Also, keep in mind that if you diverge far from the guidelines, you could end up with something undrinkable (or that only you will drink).

Let us know how it turns out.
 
I'm not sure I made it clear, but I didn't make this change to "fix" the Hefe batch.
I did it, like jldc said, to have fun. :D

It may turn out awful, but so what?
I've got session beers on tap and I wanted to play around with a more unusual beer.
Plus, I really enjoyed the Imperial Wit I was drinking.
Of course, you can't drink more than 2 of them before you get useless. :tank:

Also, I'm not looking to end up with a Hefe.
I'm looking for more of a Wheat Mead/Wine. :drunk:
I'm hoping I keep some of the esters (particularly banana) that should have been produced,
but I understand that this will be a beer that only falls in the Specialty category.

Thanks for the replies!!!
 
Also, was my math correct when calculating my new standard gravities?

What would you estimate my FG to be?

Thanks!
 
Hey, I'm all for having fun but 5#'s of honey in any 5-gal batch might not taste so good. I brewed a wheatwine at 1.090 and it came out great. Just added a boat load of malt...
 
@Poobah,

Can you tell me WHY you say WHAT you say? I don't want to argue if you know better, but unless I'm mistaken, what I've done is essentially a "braggot"; i.e., half mead, half beer. So, based on what I've read, I'm inclined to disagree with your statement. Would you mind backing it up?

Thanks!
 
Based on what you said first, I'd be inclined to go along with Poohbah -- if what you wanted was an Imperial Hefe, adding 5 lbs of honey is not the way to go. What you will get from adding 5 lbs of honey will be nothing like an imperial hefe, I think. However, if what you were planning all along was to make a braggot, then great, add 5lbs of honey & enjoy it. But next time, you might let folks know what you want to make more clearly, because Poohbah gave you great advice if you want an imperial hefe which seemed to be what you wanted to make at first.
 
If your yeast are good and healthy, it definitely won't finish at 1.010. It might get below 1.000. Your original brew probably would've finished around 1.010, but then you added water and an boatload of very highly fermentable honey. The gravity of water is 1.000 and the honey will ferment almost completely and end up mostly as ethanol (gravity = 0.790). Both of your additions will bring the FG down from what the original anticipated gravity would have been.
 
Well, I started off by trying to make something like a Terrapin Gamma Ray, which is (AFAIK) essentially a wheat beer with a boatload of honey added. So I did this. I guess I was wrong on the initial style, but I still hate an answer that says,

"That will never work. You screwed up."

Why do people give that answer with no explanation? It doesn't really help, ya know?

Thanks!
 
Sorry dude I thought I explained myself. Your OP is confusing. You talk about an Imperial white, then later you're talking braggot.:drunk: It's your beer and if that's what you want, go for it. I was simply trying to HELP you make a Sam Adams Imperial White. My opinion is there are better ways of doing it but YMMV.
I have made a Belgian Triple with 22% sugar (you're over 32%). It was bone dry but appropriate for the style. As stated I have done a wheatwine with no sugar or honey. This is basically what I thought you were doing. I have also done plenty of meads with a boatload of honey. Never done a braggot though. You asked how it's gonna taste and I just gave my opinion.
 
I typed this entry over 2 days (my computer died and I didn't feel like finding the power cord),
and I meant to include the Terrapin Gamma Ray information in the OP.

Essentially, here's what I MEANT to write:

I'm drinking a Sam Adams Imperial White and am liking it. I've also heard about the Terrapin Gamma Ray,
which is apparently a standard wheat beer with a crapload of honey added.
The two styles seem to have some similarities,
and it seems like I could maybe achieve the Gamma Ray using a batch I currently have in progress.

So... (and on it goes)

Anyway, I didn't mean to be confusing. I see now why we had our wires crossed.

This may be :off:, but I have a question about the difference between a Wheat Wine
and an "Imperial" Hefeweizen (even though that style doesn't technically exist).

If I want to go from IPA to IIPA, I don't simply add more malt, right?
Apparently, adding straight malt to an IPA gives you more of a BW than an IIPA.
So, to get to an IIPA, you add more simple sugars (table sugar, corn sugar, belgian candi sugar, honey?).

Therefore, if you're thinking about getting from a Hefe to a
Wheat Wine or an I-Hefe, would the same logic apply?

Any-hoo, thanks for looking and answering!!!
 
I would disagree with your premise that the difference between an IIPA and a barley wine is extra malt versus sugar. Some IIPAs have a little sugar to dry them out, but my guess is that most of them are all malt but just use malts with not too much sweetness (just a little crystal & light crystal at that) and are mashed quite low (148F-152F) whereas barleywines tend to have more dark crystal & are mashed higher.

For an Imperial Hefe, the question is, do you want a very light body like an IIPA or a richer body like a barleywine? The light body emphasizes the hops in an IIPA & the thicker body emphasizes the malt in a barleywine. What is unique about a Hefeweizen that you want to emphasize in a suped up version?
 
To me an Imperial Hefe is a german wheat beer made much stronger than the standard hefe. A wheatwine (my recipe is in the Strong Ale recipe section) is a barleywine made with 40-50% wheat and an OG in the 1.000 range. It's typically not made with a wheat yeast because these yeasts typically can't handle it.

A wheatwine can use lots of hops because it's got some body behind it (malt, crystal, etc). A hefe doesn't have much body and uses very little hops. A hefe made into an Imperial using sugar will be a very thin and dry beer with a prominent alcohol taste.

As for converting an IPA to a IIPA you can use malt or sugar. They usually have malty backbones. Sugar/honey is used to dry the beer out and accentuate the hops. If you add just malt it will be a little sweeter and have even more body to it. Some like dry IIPA's and some like them on the sweeter side.

Hope this helps...
 
Here's where I got the idea that an IIPA had simple sugars (I posted an IIPA recipe with all malt):
Especially with extract, you need some sugar in there to reduce the body. Otherwise, you're making a BW, not IIPA.

I guess I see now that his issue was not the ingredients but the body.

What do I want to emphasize? I dunno. I'm really just kinda screwing around.
I haven't been brewing for even a year yet, so I'm still just trying a whole bunch of different stuff out.

Right now, I've got the following fermenting:
1. cider
2. apfelwein
3. bread yeast cider
4. berry cider
5. IIPA
6. English Bitter
7. Cream ale - and -
8. rum

Will they all turn out well? I think the odds are against me. Will I learn from these experiements? I hope so.

If all goes well with this batch, I'll get:
1. Hefe esters, particularly banana
2. 8-9% ABV
3. limited/no "hot" alcohol flavor (after aging)
4. a tasty drink

If not, this was a cheap batch and the honey didn't add a ton of cost.

So far, I've only thrown away 1 batch (even with experiments) and it smelled and tasted like feet. All of my others have come out at least drinkable, if not delicious.
 
Update on this batch:

Well, I added the honey in two separate stages.

Last Saturday, fermentation was clearly slowing down on the original Hefeweizen brew. The kraeusen had fallen and airlock activity was slower.

At that time, I added 2.5 lbs. of honey and enough water to make a total of 1/2 gallon.

Fermentation took off again with a VENGEANCE!!! Although my total batch size was now just 4.5 gallons and I am fermenting in a 6+ gallon wine carboy, the new kraeusen reached up to the airlock.

After about 4 days, fermentation was again declining, kraeusen was falling and airlock activity was slowing down.

I repeated the procedure, adding another 2.5 lbs. of honey in a total of 1/2 gallon of must.

Now my total batch size is 5 gallons, fermentation took off again and this time the kraeusen reached into my blow off.

At this point, a fairly active fermentation is still ongoing, but the kraeusen is falling again.

All looks to be going well.

The best part to me, though, is that when I have smelled the opening of the gallon jug serving as my blow-off, I get an EXTREMELY strong aroma of bananas.

This is the main aroma that I really love in a Hefeweizen, so I am very pleased to have retained this profile in my new creation. In fact, this seems to have gotten stronger as the honey has been added and fermented.

So, it seems to me that I am still heading toward my somewhat vague target.

Plus, I'm really, really pleased with the Danstart Munich Wheat dry yeast. I had heard that you don't get a banana profile from this yeast, but that seems not to be true in my case.

Thanks!
 

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