The story of my wild so far.

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

boostsr20

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
804
Reaction score
16
Location
Michigan
I brewed a low hop Imperial Stout and used the dregs from the Trinity BRewings WIld growth to help my white labs california ale yeast ferment it in Primary. I'll make a little time line so you get a better idea.

Jan 29th
OG- 1.090

Feb 26th
Secondaried on oak cubes w/gravity at 1.022

March 8th
Gravity at 1.017 Added 1lb Malto Dextrin
Gravity now at 1.026

April 1st/15th
Gravity - 1.018

As of today the gravity has been chillin at 1.018 for 2 weeks and the aroma is of signature horse/hay/wet wool. Amazing. The taste is right about where I want it as far as acetic qualities go too so I'm thinking about bottling it.

So my question is, being that this is my first time bottling a sour, is there anything special I need to do? I've read that Brett/Lacto can work very slowly and for long periods of time. Last thing I want is a bunch of bottle bombs.I'll be using traditional caps as I don't have a corker. Also, what do you think I should shoot for as far as carb levels go? What lends itself well to something like this? I was thinking low, around 2.5 volumes.
 
It is extremely unlikely that a 2.5 month old sour that's sitting at 1.018 is ready to bottle. Stick it in a closet for another 10 months.
I have two sours with OGs between 1.080 and 1.100. Over the past 12 months one has crawled from 1.016 to 1.006, and the other has gone from 1.020 to 1.008. If I had bottled them 10 months ago, I would've gotten hand grenades.
 
In 10 months it will be unbelievably sour which is why I'm asking if there is anything outside of pasteurization that I can do. Campden? It tastes exactly how I want it to taste right now. Its very similar to a bottle of JP Madrugada Obscura I just had.
 
Also, is the malto dextrin going to be 100% fermentable by the bacteria? Take that away and it would have been in the 1.008 range. I also mashed at 158 on this one.
 
Why not pasteurize? Put it in a pot and bring it up to 180 for a couple of minutes, then bottle as usual.
 
It's very strange to me that your beer got so sour and funky so quickly. My experience with dregs in primary is that it still takes the better part of a year for the flavor to get close to where I want it. One of these beers had the dregs from two Drie Fonteinen and two fresh Russian River sours, plus half a pack of US-05, and it still took about 6 months to start getting nice and tart.
If you're happy with the flavor, I'd try stabilizing with campden and see where that gets you.
 
Have you had old growth? It's intensely the most sour beer I've had. I'm not trying to rush it, I was prepared for a year but I like where it's at. I also pitched supplication and obscurant dregs within the first week. Were your dregs in primary?
 
Have you had old growth? It's intensely the most sour beer I've had. I'm not trying to rush it, I was prepared for a year but I like where it's at. I also pitched supplication and obscurant dregs within the first week. Were your dregs in primary?
I have not had Old Growth. Yes, dregs were pitched in primary. One of my other sours used a few bottles of Hansen's, which is one of the most bracingly sour beers I've ever had, and it still took quite awhile to develop.
 
Have you had the JP madrugada? It's not intensely sour, so yeah mine may be a bit underdeveloped but it's what I was aiming for. Haven't had hansens, I'll look for it. Is pasteurizing that easy?
 
The difference in 1.018 to 1.008 won't make your beer incredibly sour. The flavor will continue to change slightly, but the bulk of the flavor came from it going from 1.09 to 1.018.

This is completely incorrect, theres a huge amount of food available to the bugs/brett in that gravity drop, in addition brett in particular will utilize esters and other byproducts from the rest of the culture to funkify the beer more
 
ryane said:
This is completely incorrect, theres a huge amount of food available to the bugs/brett in that gravity drop, in addition brett in particular will utilize esters and other byproducts from the rest of the culture to funkify the beer more

Post edited to reflect noobishness. Thanks for the correction.
 
Still not bottled and I'm tasting it every other week. The acetic quality is getting more intense and it reeks of Brett goodness. I've gotten some tips from some highly regard pros and they say go ahead and bottle once the taste is where I want it. Gravity is now at 1.016 and they said I shouldn't expect much lower given the sg. One brewer said wait 3 months before bottling after the malti addition.
 
Well you could go ahead and bottle; once the carbonation gets where you want it you'll have to throw it in the fridge.
 
boostsr20 said:
Still not bottled and I'm tasting it every other week. The acetic quality is getting more intense and it reeks of Brett goodness. I've gotten some tips from some highly regard pros and they say go ahead and bottle once the taste is where I want it. Gravity is now at 1.016 and they said I shouldn't expect much lower given the sg. One brewer said wait 3 months before bottling after the malti addition.


If it already dropped 2 points in that time period it shows that the bugs are still working. The maltodextrine you added IS nearly fully fermentable for Brett....

also tasting it on a weekly basis will increase the acetic acid with the exposure to oxygen, so I'd stop doing that often...
 
Still not bottled and I'm tasting it every other week. The acetic quality is getting more intense and it reeks of Brett goodness. I've gotten some tips from some highly regard pros and they say go ahead and bottle once the taste is where I want it. Gravity is now at 1.016 and they said I shouldn't expect much lower given the sg. One brewer said wait 3 months before bottling after the malti addition.
I direct you to post #2 in this thread, wherein I tell you that I have had a 1.080 beer drop from 1.016 to 1.006 over the course of the past year. 1.016 is nowhere near done. Invoking an argument from authority fallacy won't change this.
Also - stop tasting it biweekly, the taste is changing because you are oxygenating the beer, which is giving acetobacteria exactly what they need to make vinegar.
 
I direct you to post #2 in this thread, wherein I tell you that I have had a 1.080 beer drop from 1.016 to 1.006 over the course of the past year. 1.016 is nowhere near done. Invoking an argument from authority fallacy won't change this.
Also - stop tasting it biweekly, the taste is changing because you are oxygenating the beer, which is giving acetobacteria exactly what they need to make vinegar.

I'm going to take the advice I've gotten from pro brewers and wait at least three months after the malto addition and then bottle if I like it. The two I've gotten advice from have told me not to expect it to go less than 1.015 from the recipe I've used.
 
I'm going to take the advice I've gotten from pro brewers and wait at least three months after the malto addition and then bottle if I like it. The two I've gotten advice from have told me not to expect it to go less than 1.015 from the recipe I've used.
Do what you want, but that is horrible, terrible, very bad advice.
Please check the gravity at bottling and report what you find.
 
These guys work with this stuff for a living and I used their bugs. I'm not saying your wrong, but I'm going to take their advice because I like where the beer is at now. I bottled 2 bottles and will be doing the rest shortly. I am using all belgian bottles though just in case and I'm not going on the high side for carb just to leave a little buffer.

As for tasting every other week, that was just at the 3 month mark after the malto addition just to check gravity and see how it was progressing. I only did it 3 times total and always purged it with co2 after.
 
Do what you want, but that is horrible, terrible, very bad advice.
Please check the gravity at bottling and report what you find.
I rarely use my hydrometer for normal beers as I give them plenty of time to finish and I don't jerk off to final abv #'s. I know, its not good practice. With that said, I brewed a IIPA with a buddy on national homebrew day. At bottling we sampled it and it seemed far drier than expected so tested it with both his hydrometer and with my hydrometer. Mine was reading .06 higher than his was.... This is a different hydrometer than what I tested OG with as that one broke. Verified at home with tap water that its definitely off. I still haven't bottled but when I do I'll post up what its at now. I'm expecting 1.010 though.
 
I rarely use my hydrometer for normal beers as I give them plenty of time to finish and I don't jerk off to final abv #'s. I know, its not good practice. With that said, I brewed a IIPA with a buddy on national homebrew day. At bottling we sampled it and it seemed far drier than expected so tested it with both his hydrometer and with my hydrometer. Mine was reading .06 higher than his was.... This is a different hydrometer than what I tested OG with as that one broke. Verified at home with tap water that its definitely off. I still haven't bottled but when I do I'll post up what its at now. I'm expecting 1.010 though.

Two things concerning hydrometer calibration. One, hydrometers are calibrated at two different temperatures, usually 60ºF and 68ºF. Check which one yours is and you may have to adjust a couple points to compensate for temperature difference. Two, use distilled water to calibrate your hydrometer. Tap water contains different ions and minerals that will not properly calibrate your hydrometer.

Also, those of us that monitor our gravities on a consistent basis do not "jerk off" to them. By routinely taking gravity readings we not only insure our beer's quality, we insure the efficiency and repeatability of our brewing systems. If it's not your cup of tea, cool, keep brewing and doing your thing, just realize that it's very important to some of us and we'd hate to see your beer go to waste in the form of bottle bombs.
 
I rarely use my hydrometer for normal beers as I give them plenty of time to finish and I don't jerk off to final abv #'s.

Final gravity is an important factor in the taste and feel of a beer. Knowing exactly what you're getting gives you the ability to adjust in the future.

It's not jerking off, it's proper technique.
 
Two things concerning hydrometer calibration. One, hydrometers are calibrated at two different temperatures, usually 60ºF and 68ºF. Check which one yours is and you may have to adjust a couple points to compensate for temperature difference. Two, use distilled water to calibrate your hydrometer. Tap water contains different ions and minerals that will not properly calibrate your hydrometer.

Also, those of us that monitor our gravities on a consistent basis do not "jerk off" to them. By routinely taking gravity readings we not only insure our beer's quality, we insure the efficiency and repeatability of our brewing systems. If it's not your cup of tea, cool, keep brewing and doing your thing, just realize that it's very important to some of us and we'd hate to see your beer go to waste in the form of bottle bombs.

I get the temperature difference but I don't understand tap vs distiller. If elements in the water can make that much of a difference then how can a hydrometer ever be trust? Co2 in solution, yeast in suspension etc... All seem like they'd be a bigger factor.

I guess my comment irked a few of you so let me point out that I was just comparing to some people I know that check gravity bi daily throughout the process. I am more of a sg, give it proper time and check at bottling. I've never had a bottle bomb or overcarbed beer.
 
I take gravity readings at SG, usually when I rack, pre bottling/kegging with my standard ales and lagers. I think bi daily reads are pushing it a little far and you have more of a chance ruining your beer doing that. I think people are a little more sensitive because wilds can ferment pretty dry, and hydrometer readings plus proper fermentation time is pretty much religion around here.

As far as the hydrometer goes, yes, there are other factors that can affect your gravity readings. What I was trying to say was you should use distilled water to calibrate your hydrometer. Understandably, if you use tap water for your beer you might be off a couple points one way or another. But, using distilled water is the only way to tell you if your hydrometer is reading and performing correctly, regardless of what water you used to make your beer.

Hope this helps and do update us on the progress of your beer :mug:
 
Thanks for the input, what about boiling off some water, cooling and using that? I hate the taste of distilled water so I won't drink the rest of it :D
 
If you can collect whatever water condensates you can use that. That's too much work for me so I just have a gallon on hand from Walgreens for whenever I need it for calibration purposes.
 
You can always mix the distilled water with some star san and fill your spray bottle.
 
Just a quick update. I entered this in the Michigan Beer Cup and it scored a 43. I'm very happy with the beer overall and how its continuing to develop in the bottle.
 
Good to see you did what you wanted and didn't listen to armchair experts. If you have a sound understanding of what you did and are expecting then there was no reason for you to not bottle. Not every beer with brett in it needs a year to finish up. Just like every regular beer doesn't need to be sitting with all the yeast for an entire month like many on here are repeating.

I'm actually getting around to do a sort of imperial stout in this same fashion. I will brew it up and then add at least brett and maybe a hop tolerant lacto culture with the brett.
 
Some pros may bottle after 3 months. But you have to keep in mind the constraints they are under. Time = money. Few can financially justify tying up space for a couple years
 
Some pros may bottle after 3 months. But you have to keep in mind the constraints they are under. Time = money. Few can financially justify tying up space for a couple years

That doesn't mean the are putting out half assed beers that don't represent the style. Hell, one that gave me tips has won 12 gabf medals. I think some people get too caught up in old world traditions. I certainly can appreciate them, but it seems that I haven't need that much time to produce what I want.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top