Artificially limiting the supply results in higher rated beer

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ShootsNRoots

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Artificially limiting the supply results in higher rated beer.

Examples are Westvleteren 12, Heady Topper, Pliny the Younger. Don't misunderstand, these are most excellent beers, top of the line, but what if they were commonly available at your supermarket (maybe they are in your local area)?

Wouldn't BMC be considered great if it's supply was severely limited to a small area?
 
If it is difficult to get typically I find it tastes better to you. I remember when I could not get Fat Tire in Va. So whenever I could get it I thought it was the greatest beer ever. Now that it is everywhere, it's not even my go-to beer.
 
Without a doubt. You can get tired of anything if you can get it all the time.

A local bar near me had Hopslam, and Nugget nectar available for over a month. It got to the point where I was kinda tired of em. Now that it's been a couple of months,and I wish I could go grab some, but with soooo many craft beers out there I can find something else till they come back around.

The limited distribution beers are another story. I would like to be able to get Heady on a regular basis, so when I can I'm sure It's "better" to me than someone that lives a mile from the brewery.
 
Yup, same can be said of some seasonal stouts that are difficult to get a hold of like The Abyss from Deschutes Brewery out here in Oregon.

Even when its released, its in such small quantities that after 2-3 weeks its gone off all the shelves by people who buy it all up.
 
ShootsNRoots said:
Wouldn't BMC be considered great if it's supply was severely limited to a small area?
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I think Cathedral was responding to this with his "no" and I agree. There's lots of bad beer that you can't get everywhere. A local brewery makes a blueberry lager and it's just awful. Just because 95% of the country can't get it, doesn't make it a great beer. Same with BMC.
ShootsNRoots said:
Artificially limiting the supply results in higher rated beer.
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I'd say some great beers do get a slight bump up in ratings because of limited supply. Yes, Pliny is an awesome beer, but I'm not sure if it deserves all the praise it gets and I think part of it is because it's limited supply.

BTW, I don't think any brewery limits supply. Don't you think they'd rather sell more? Maybe I'm wrong.
 
ShootsNRoots said:
Care to elaborate?
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Actually, I agree with you. I just don't want it to be true.

A buddy of mine loves to tell a story about how he was in Czechoslovakia or some place BFE and he asked a cab driver to take him to the place that has the best beer. Cab driver says, "OK!" and takes him to a bar, walks in, and buys a Miller Genuine Draft. It was a rare treat for them.

And of course breweries limit their supply. Sometimes just for marketing, most times to make room for other beer, sometimes a mixture of both. Think of some great seasonal beers that you can only get at certain times a year. Beers that sell like hotcakes when they come out, like Sam Adams Oktoberfest. They could sell that year round and it would be a good source of income. However, limiting the supply both a) damn near guarantees the whole batch will be sold and b) frees up the kettles to whip up something else.

I understand that supply and demand can create sensationalism; that's why I buy beers based off of what tastes good to me--if a beer "rates" good, I don't give a damn. If a beer rates good and is really hard to find, then I don't give a damn about ever having it. There is so much that I can get to keep me busy that I don't worry about it.

I've never had Heady, or any Pliny, and I don't mind that. If I get the chance I will, but in the mean time I'm enjoying my Great Lakes Lake Erie Monster or Hoppin' Frog Hoppin' to Heaven IPA.

How's that for elaboration, eh?! :mug:
 
mtnagel said:
BTW, I don't think any brewery limits supply. Don't you think they'd rather sell more? Maybe I'm wrong.
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I'm cynical. I believe there are breweries that take the approach to limit supply to increase caché. This makes the brand seem better because everyone wants it. This then enables them to sell their other beers and people will try them because it comes from XYZ brewery that makes that one beer than everyone wants and sells out in 2 hours after release. Yea, I totally believe there are guys doing just this because it allows them to market their other beers and make more money.
 
This is an interesting idea. I'm a business PhD student and this would make for a fun paper. Anyone know where I might find data of the number of barrels produced of different beers? Maybe the ATF, state liquor boards, or tax records? Or is there some reporting within the industry?
 
mragin said:
This is an interesting idea. I'm a business PhD student and this would make for a fun paper. Anyone know where I might find data of the number of barrels produced of different beers? Maybe the ATF, state liquor boards, or tax records? Or is there some reporting within the industry?
Click to expand...

I would imagine the breweries might give you the info if you said you were using it for a term paper, but some are weird about that stuff, so who knows.

It's kinda like diamonds, there are tons of em, but they only release a limited amount to keep the price up.
 
I don't think breweries intentional keep their supply low. Some are expanding (Heady expanded and is doing it again) and some are content with their business model. But you need to think of it this way, some of the beers you mention are great beers, maybe the greatest. And since they are so limited, people who want them seek them out. A couple things happen here:

1. Huge DIPA fans seek out Heady, etc...what do you think they are going to rate them? Its not necessarily that the rating is "higher" than it should be...its that a majority of the drinkers and raters LOVE this style and will of course LOVE one of the best versions of it.

2. By it being scarce...average drinkers don't have a chance stumble upon this. A stout lover is very unlikely to find a Pliny in a store, go home, try it, then complain its too hoppy/bitter, etc and give it a lower rating. Therefore, the rating stays higher.

So while the rating maybe "artifically" higher, its not the limited amount per se, its the fact that people who will like the style are far more likely to get their hands on it.

I don't think this will work for BMC and this is not their goal.
 
Also, it is not fair to say they are doing it purely for gain. Russian River and Lawson's, for example, do not meet demand because they don't want to hurt their product and/or do not want to move their brewing elsewhere, or change their routine, etc. Some breweries like being small, and that is their prerogative.
 
I've always thought this. I'm glad the op said it. I had my $15 bottle of westy12 when it was released. Wasn't the best quad I ever had by a long shot.
 
Years ago, Coors wasn't available on Michigan and people would pay a fair amount to anyone going to Colorado if they would bring back a couple of cases. That beer was very much treasured. Now that it is available here, it is just another mediocre beer...
 
Maybe a bit off topic - but back in the 90's I think Coors changed their recipe to replace Corn with Rice. Granted I had a Grad School beer budget and my palette was not what it is today - but I recall thinking Coors was very drinkable before and cat piss after. I've always considered the old Coors to be closer to a Classic American Pilsner than the current BMC version.
 
Kolsch_Meister said:
Years ago, Coors wasn't available on Michigan and people would pay a fair amount to anyone going to Colorado if they would bring back a couple of cases. That beer was very much treasured. Now that it is available here, it is just another mediocre beer...
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Eastbound and down...

You guys beat me to the Coors example.
 
I completely agree with this. I've had my fair share of the rare and rare seasonal. They are all very good but the supply issue elevates them to a much higher status. To be fair, I don't think all of these are "artificially limited". Some are genuinely limited by the size of the brewery, amount they can devote to a specific beer, etc... As for the westy 12? I sold my 6 pack for $450. No way it was that good... I wouldn't know.
 
Sam Calagione states in his book Brewing up a Business that when DFH first releases a new offering, that they intentionally make less than there is demand for it.

"We make sure that the first time we release something, there is not enough of it to satisfy demand. This sound crazy, and we certainly are missing some sales opportunities every time we do this. But ours is not a commodity market, and by not satisfying demand initially we create more demand for the future."

Brewing up a Business, revised and updated edition. Pg 182-183.


Just more food for thought.
 
ajwillys said:
I completely agree with this. I've had my fair share of the rare and rare seasonal. They are all very good but the supply issue elevates them to a much higher status. To be fair, I don't think all of these are "artificially limited". Some are genuinely limited by the size of the brewery, amount they can devote to a specific beer, etc... As for the westy 12? I sold my 6 pack for $450. No way it was that good... I wouldn't know.
Click to expand...

You have a license to sell beer? I need one of those!
 
Realispatt said:
Sam Calagione states in his book Brewing up a Business that when DFH first releases a new offering, that they intentionally make less than there is demand for it.

"We make sure that the first time we release something, there is not enough of it to satisfy demand. This sound crazy, and we certainly are missing some sales opportunities every time we do this. But ours is not a commodity market, and by not satisfying demand initially we create more demand for the future."
/QUOTE]

Exactly how do they predict demand on a NEW product? You can always base it upon the previous sales of other products, but until people try and LIKE your product, your sales estimate will be just that, estimates.

MC
Click to expand...
 
I think this rationale applies to a lot of things. People tend to value something more if it is rare or hard to get and tend to feel special or better if they have it when others don't. I think that this applies to certain hops varieties as well. It seems that when a certain hop variety is in limited supply, there is more hype behind it.
 
ShootsNRoots said:
Artificially limiting the supply results in higher rated beer.

Examples are Westvleteren 12, Heady Topper, Pliny the Younger. Don't misunderstand, these are most excellent beers, top of the line, but what if they were commonly available at your supermarket (maybe they are in your local area)?

Wouldn't BMC be considered great if it's supply was severely limited to a small area?
Click to expand...

That sounds like a really great beer snob question.
 
I know a local here makes special releases. Sometimes there will be two different batches of the recipe. First one sells out quick and the second one sits in the shelves for awhile. I think the higher price (versus their regular beers)drives off repeated sales or people are looking for something different to try.
 
Kolsch_Meister said:
Years ago, Coors wasn't available on Michigan and people would pay a fair amount to anyone going to Colorado if they would bring back a couple of cases. That beer was very much treasured. Now that it is available here, it is just another mediocre beer...
Click to expand...

We were on our honeymoon in 1981. We were sitting in a lodge outside Yelllowstone enjoying a steak dinner and Coors. It was great. It's still one of my favorite beer memories.

OTOH, I haven't had a Coors in years.
 
ShootsNRoots said:
Artificially limiting the supply results in higher rated beer.

Examples are Westvleteren 12, Heady Topper, Pliny the Younger. Don't misunderstand, these are most excellent beers, top of the line, but what if they were commonly available at your supermarket (maybe they are in your local area)?

Wouldn't BMC be considered great if it's supply was severely limited to a small area?
Click to expand...

Agreed with what you said above except for the BMC comment.
 
Kolsch_Meister said:
Years ago, Coors wasn't available on Michigan and people would pay a fair amount to anyone going to Colorado if they would bring back a couple of cases. That beer was very much treasured. Now that it is available here, it is just another mediocre beer...
Click to expand...

I came in here to say this exact thing. My dad was a hero because he managed a supermarket (Chatham at 8 and Gratiot if anyone remembers it) and could get the truck drivers to pick him up some at will and would bring it to my brother's softball games.
 
When you have to go out of your way to get something, the people who manage to find it tend to be the ones that went looking for it.
 
Beer you have to search for build up anticipation in your brain. Once you have it you will either be disappointed or think its fantastic. I have had beers that I couldn't wait to drink that I thought were pretty bland while others I stumbled across and fell in love with. Often I am not disappointed by the higher rated beers simply by virtue that they are all styles I appreciate and that they stand on their own. But I really think people need to look in their own backyards before searching out these white whales. A couple breweries around here make a damn fine IPA and IIPA that are great. They have never been heard of usually, and they won't be world champions, but they are delicious and affordable.
 
It shouldn't come as any surprise that "Limited Edition" is used as an excuse to attach a premium price to something. It's one of the pillars of capitalism.

As for the Trappist breweries, I think their view is that they are monasteries with a brewery attached, not breweries with a monastery attached.
 
I think that is how a lot of small breweries can survive.....make limited amounts of great beer and develop a "following". Especially if you can provide an experience along with the beer. After all who wants to buy "ordinary" beer that you can find at most liquor stores......
 
Well, after saying I would try the heady topper only if I came across it...

Im on a road trip to maine with the girlfriend and we decided to make a side trip to waterbury, vermont, the place where it is brewed.

Ill let you know how it tastes, fresh from the tap. ..
 
Another aspect of the so called "big" beers that have people scrambling for is the ingredients. Hops are constantly running in short supply. Many of the great IIPA's are brewed shortly after hops are harvested. You would have a hard time doing it later in the hops cycle due to supply issues with the desirable hops for IIPA'S.
 
Limiting supply?

Perhaps, for some of these guys it is to help create a buzz. You get a buzz for a line of beer people will tend to check out your other beers. Some times I do think things are limited by choice and logistics that they don't want to overcome. An example is many of the Russian Imperial Stouts out there. Some folks have a year round offering of an imperial stout, others claim they can only do it once a year. Truth to that? It could be anyone's guess but to be honest many of the special beers, the Russian Imperial Stouts, Barley Wines, Double IPAs do cost a fortune to make. While a DIPA may not sit as long as Stouts or Barley Wines economics and space dictate a lot of things. If you have a tank or vessel or just plain space dedicated to aging or settling a beer that is costing you money until it is out the door. While I would think that is not the end all be all with beer that is surely something to consider. Add to this if it is a barrel aged of anything. All of these factors drive up the price to the brewer as well as everyone else down the line.

By anyone's statement, these rare beers are also rare because of the added time, money and space invested in to them. To make them special by very definition you are doing something different with them. If you do what you do for them all of the time they cease to become special. I think this is the critical bit with most of these breweries, the things are limited because they must necessarily be so limited.

Surley is local to me and they have various brews that are all time, seasonal or limited release. Darkness is one of those that gathers the most attention, but would I state that it is the best RIS ever? No. I enjoy it because it is local but I can think of a couple other RIS that are around all the time that are better. Some people enjoy the whole festival that goes with it. That adds to the fun and taste and all of it. (Yes I will go again this year because I met a lot of people last year and had a great time. Just remember kids, Minnesota does not allow liquor sales on Sundays outside of bars.)

In short are things done on purpose? Probably so but due to economics more than anything. If I can have equipment and space occupied for six total months to make one beer that will gain me 50k or in the same time and space four beers that each gain me 50k I will go for the four beers. Simplified but I would wager a guess that is what a lot of these companies do.
 

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