Cost of a typical E-system

I haven't dived into any threads and honestly, I am probably not at the level to invest much money into it... BUT.... I am always like a kid in the candy store on HBT. I would love to make a system. Just not sure how much a typical system costs.

Refer me to another thread as I assume this has been asked. But I am somewhat newish to brewing but an electrical engineer. So i would obviously love to have an electric system. Thanks.

Take all the money you have... multiply it by 5, spend it on the best components you can find at the best price...

Then wish you had a larger, nicer system.

That's about it.

lol @ muddy

im making the plunge right now. where all of this really gets you is the little things like nuts, washers, gaskets, t fittings, coils, etc. my builf is running about 350 over right now but it will be done with all quality components. this however also includes a new kettle and herms coil.

you can do it for as cheap as a dryer cord, element, cheap step bit, and some jb weld. it wouldn't be the safest or most accurate, but it is possible.

i think when all is said and done i'll be at about 1,000 including a kettle, pump, drill press (i wanted one and this was just an excuse). i didn't account for wiring properly and that added a hundo to the bill. however, i'm glad i have done it, i've learned quite a bit, and i simply enjoy this kind of thing.

I finally have all my parts in...I have spent allot...I am scared to look to be honest. All I can say is do it to enjoy doing projects and hate refilling propane tanks. I haven't got to enjoy electric electric brewing yet...

Speaking as an EE also doing an electric build, be prepared to end up dropping alot more then you initially anticipated!

You can't really say "typical" because there are so many different styles of build. Even the Kal clones have variations with different price points. But that said, I can assist by giving you an actual number on an actual build:



The "Death Star" cost me something around $1500 to build, but that price is not "typical" as I won both pumps and had plenty of time to search out the best cost items on eBay.

AllanMar said:

Speaking as an EE also doing an electric build, be prepared to end up dropping alot more then you initially anticipated!

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Yea, that's what I am afraid of. I got that disease my wife has where she buys crap online and says "It was on sale". HBF and HBT have been killing my wallet. I recently split from 2 buddies who were bottling a 5 gallon batch. Yea about 14-18 beers for all that time and effort. So i split so I could brew and eventually keg. I bought like 3 chest freezers (sold one for profit) of CL and went bananas on making the collars and ordering all the parts. One is fermentor and one is keezer. I LOVED DOING THAT PROJECT. Made me watch the DIY network for at least a month and start investing in tool. Gonna eventually do some household wood working and DIY projects. So with the online shopping disease and my DIY bug, I need to chill and get back to brewing.

I had been doing DME, but bought a MLT and about to get in my valve setups today (YAY!!!). So before I go nuts and go into E-brewing, I should get some good runs with my current setup.

I have easily dropped $1G on brewing/kegging equipment and I have only done 3 kegs (Black IPA is almost through fermenting). SO i know the traps and pitfalls of spending money. I currently don't have kids so who knows what will happen when I get one of those rugrats to suck all my beer money away from me.

My next step is brew stand. I have 1 propane burner right now and a table.... that's it. I am looking into either doing a uni-strut build or finding a friend of a friend to weld me up something nice. Ebrewing can wait (or can it??). I just have too many hobbies and not enough $$$. Reminds me, I gotta go fix my golf swing.

Some of the builds on this site are humungous achievements in terms of time effort and money, but it is also possible to start small. A cooler mash tun, a plastic bucket with heating elements in for a kettle/HLT, and you're away. If you feel the need you can add in pumps, PIDs and the like as you go along. But most brewers choose electricity for convenience and safety not because they want these extras.

There is great information on Kal's site but I wonder how many people start building a Kal clone from scratch and run out of motivation long before it is finished.

500 bucks including outrageous shipping out of country and a kettle. See my sig

I'll add in my two cents.

You can go slowly. I started with a single 8 gallon pot and a turkey fryer. I'd set pots and buckets on different stacks of things to get the right gravity feed. My first step into the e-brewing was when I realized that I hated watching the temp on my strike water, so I bought a keg and a 120V element from Home Depot.

If you go in small manageable chunks, you'll never be stuck long in a situation where you can't brew, and you'll also never have to fork over a huge sum of money at one time. You could probably squeak something out for under $1k, but most people are looking at the $2k ballpark

Also, the longest that I've been out of brewing commission by doing it this was was a span of a couple of months last summer when my company decided that it was a cool demo that they wanted to turn into something shiny on our tradeshow floor. It was a tradeoff I was happy to make!

https://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-24184

Suffice it to say that my system is much closer to the "before" picture in that link.

And yes, I am getting negative change out of $1K*. I was doing pretty well until I went a bit beserk on camlocks.

I'm going to stick my neck out and opine that eBIAB is twilit waystation not for tarrying. But it's an easy way in the door.

Actually the best advice I received on electric brewing was that a temperature controlled fermentation vessel will improve your beer more than all the HERMS RIMS malarkey.

*Edit: and that's not counting what I spent to get 240V out to the garage!

Ive been looking into doing a jkarp brutus 20(10 gallon version) and by the time I get another outlet(spa panel) for 240 volt and all of the misc. costs like cam locks ect. I think I'm going to have a hard time doing it for less than 1500. To be fair I am buying this http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/EBC-SV-with-Infinite-Power-Control-269p3986.htm But in my calculation them building it for me only costs me an extra 200-300.

A lot of people on here likely think its silly to buy a controller, but I don't enjoy building, don't want the safety hassle of an electric wiring build, and other financial considerations (ie. opportunity cost and value of my time).

alien said:

Suffice it to say that my system is much closer to the "before" picture in that link.

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Mine would still look a whole lot like the before as well if it hadn't been for all of the work that my company put into it. I only added minimal functionality to it, but it's a whole lot shinier. I definitely don't make any better beer with it.

I guess the only asterisk is that I do get better temperature accuracy with the digital temp probes than I did with the thermocouples that I was using before. If I were into repeatably brewing consistent recipes, that might make a difference to me...but that's not really my thing...

I have a three kettle, two pump system that I built from scratch. I was using keggles, but when I went electric I decided to buy new kettles and make it look nice. I figured I would spend about $1,000, but I think I topped out around $1500.

There were some bigger expenses like the kettles, pumps, PID, spa panel, elements, temp probes...

Then there were the little things that really added up like the alarms, buttons, lights, switches, heat sink/ssr, gang boxes, ball valves, washers, valves, wire, contact blocks, wire, plugs, wire, etc.

lunchbox said:

Then there were the little things that really added up like...plugs, wire, etc.

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NO KIDDING!

I was floored when I went to try to buy my main electric cord and plug. I ended up getting a good deal on 4-4 when I split a roll off ebay with a buddy. It's really nice and flexible, so it works great...but man...

You start off thinking you can cut corners everywhere, then it just starts adding up. Mine added up because I wanted to do everything once and right, and not have to worry about repairs later on. The Cold Bottom Brewery from scratch ran about $2500. My advice is to start with a list of what you want and what you need, that is if you really even need to go electric. Then over estimate prices, dont forget shipping, and add your time. Walk away and come back later and see if you forgot anything. Dont get me wrong I love my brewery, and will have it for a long time but I should have been more realistic from the beginning with costs.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/cold-bottom-brewery-391263/

Kal's site is a great place to start, then cut those things you can live without SAFELY. I started with the intention of only getting out of the cold of MN winters for brewing. Then I thought Herms sounded nice and a CFC chiller to save time, etc, etc, etc.

My control panel cost me about $250 to build, however I got some great deals. Enclosure was $20 off ebay, bought wire and plugs from another brewer who over bought, sales and free shipping on amazon prime helped a ton as well. My panel is single PID, no volt and amp meter 2 pumps, emergency off, element selector switch and a PID on/off switch. Thats it it was pretty simple to wire with PJ's diagrams.

I already had vessels from my all-grain set up, lumber to build the stand was about $75. Pumps and cfc was the biggest expense about $500. All in I was slightly above $1K, but just slightly, and I could have done it for less with 1 pump and a cooler mash tun, no HERMS, and my immersion chiller I already had. That would have knocked about $300 off of the price tag.

Think about what you truly want and stick to it, everything you add will add more and more. More PID's and meters = more contactors, voltage transformers, bigger enclosure, more sensors and wires and panel mount disconnects. Herms = at least 2 pumps instead of one, a HEX coil, HLT recirculation. You get the idea.

Like any project the price and complexity can vary significantly
* $300+ for a DIY single PID, eBIAB panel
* $2,000+ for a Kal style 3-vessel control panel.

This does not include the kettles, fittings, hoses, or the cost of installing a 240v power source.

Hey Now!!
You guys are close to provoking me to add up the bits and pieces I've acquired the past couple of months. I have everything but the brains and was counting on snagging the BCS from the big giveaway

My fear is that, once I realize how much I've already spent, I won't be able to afford controller and sensors

I've been going at this process in steps but still allow me to keep brewing and use my newly built equipment as I go along. First was to build the brew kettle and basic SSR box that I controlled with a microcontroller. Next was to actually start all grain brewing by building a manifold for the picnic cooler I had sitting unused in the garage. Then came the keggle mash tun and RIMS tube. I just picked up a BCS and am now planning the full control panel. Last will be the HLT followed by the final brew stand. Right now I use the BK for that and collect the first runnings in a bucket.

By splitting it up into stages I have spread the cost out over a few years and $500 or so every 6 months doesn't seem so bad compared to $2500-3000 in one shot. And so far the only throw away steps were the $10 in cpvc fittings for the cooler mash tun manifold.

My best advice is for those who have already built their systems, don't go back and add it up. For the OP, plan on spending double what you think it will cost. All the little bits add up, all the accessories add up, buying tools adds up. To make a fully functional system you need everything from a power source to an exhaust system. There are lots of ways to get there.

I've got a BOM on my single vessel electric build in this thread:https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/2...eggle-conversion-w-recirculation-pics-394656/

All in it was $1500.

I think most of these e-builds have a lot of the builders personality into them. Some like to DIY a kettle and order a panel, some like to do their panel and shop the welding, most use pj's diagrams while others do create their own... Not really many cookie cutter systems so hard to say what typical would be in my opinion. I didn't keep track of cost because I didn't want to know how much I actually spent but I did a lot of cl buying and selling to offset costs... Out of pocket cash I want to hope is no more than 1500 for my bcs rig

Another shot

@kosmokramer Great work. It looks like a high end apparatus. Your estimate, not so much.

It *is* possible to brew electric on the cheap. This build was my inspiration. I reckon there is maybe $150 of parts and $150 of electronics in it. You could replace the Arduino with a conventional PID without adding to the cost.



Link: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49623

I don't see a lot of plastic breweries on this forum, but it's totally viable.

Of course, having been lured by this inexpensive option, I couldn't help "upgrading" in various ways. Pictures like the previous post are the reason why.

I kept a running total of all my costs, as I built my entire brewery from the ground up after a cross-country move. From the lumber and screws to build the stand, to the kettles and false bottoms, to the pumps, hoses, and fittings of the liquid transfer system, to the electronics, wires, crimp terminals, solder, and mounts for the panel. Everything - and in some situations I bought a case of 20 doodads thinking I may want more than 2 or 3, but only ended up using a few, but I still asigned that whole cost to the project because, well, that's why I bought it.

Out the door, from soup to nuts, I came in at right around $3,250. It's an expensive hoby, but it's also a lot of fun. You can save some money buying cheaper parts off ebay or searching for deals on-line, but at some point you realize your time and peace of mind are worth something, and your desire to get working on the panel NOW is worth something, too.

I'm currently building a 50-amp panel and I will have about $2,300 just in the control panel and a total of about $4,800 including the new Stout tanks, pumps, tri-clover fittings, hoses, brew stand... But, this will include absolutely everything and will be a top notch system, at least for me

I have a 2 ss kettle, 1 rubbermaid cooler and 2 PID, 5500w control panel set up. I paid a little more to have the element housings and panel wired up for me, but I am still around $2k+ all in. And the stand I am using was free, so there's that.

My honest opinion: save your dollars-- know that you'll spend more than you anticipated-- and get what you think you'll be wanting 5 years from now. The easier to upgrade the better (i.e. I have 15 gal kettles, but only do 5 gal batches with the hopes of doing 10 gal splits in the future).

Your present self may get nauseous thinking about that kinda scratch, but your future self will applaud you for getting the hard part out of the way.

I'd certainly agree in terms of volume. You don't hear of many brewers selling up to buy smaller kettles.

But basically all of the control equipment is optional, and you can overbuild. Some people do pack in HERMS and go back to infusion mashing and batch sparges. Personally I appreciate electric brewing because it is safe and convenient rather than because of the bells and whistles.

I guess what I'm saying is that maybe the "typical" electric brewery looks like this, which is fine.

I'll add in a data point about pulling back but very infrequently scaling down.

While I do have friends who have gone into the mode of trying to simplify their brewing process (batch sparging vs fly, moving to BIAB, etc), but I only know one person who has taken that so far as to go from 10+ gallon batches back to 5 gallon batches exclusively. Similarly, I designed my boil kettle so that I could easily do either 5 or 10 gall on batches, but in 2 years, I have never done anything smaller than 10 gallons.

I did however design my system so that I could do mash temp control with a HERMS coil and all of the stuff that's involved in that. I used it once and decided that it wasn't worth it, so I took the coil out of my HLT.

Assuming you already have your pots and 220V service you can build a minimalist system with:

Breaker box- 17.00
220 V breaker- 9.00
10 ga cable- 2.00/ft figure on 10 ft=20.00
Heating elements (2) - 16.00
PID-45.00
RTD- 8.00
SSR- 10.00
Heat sink- 5.00

That comes out to $130-ish plus shop supplies to convert an existing three vessel system to electric. That's without pumps for HERMS, minimal safety features and no pretty lights. It's basically what I brew on though I've added the pump and coil for HERMS.

I made a one pid panel with a timer and a switch that controls two elements. I have two ss chugger pumps and three keggles with electric in two of them. I still need a stand, and about 400 bucks in fittings and a few hundred more for hoses, labels, misc. parts. All told I will have close to 1700 in it, give or take a few hundred. The control panel, fully operational with a gfi cord like kal used cost me just shy of 600 bucks. I also used more expensive lighted switches as opposed to indicator lights. I'm in it for about 1200 now. And my idiot landlord is foreclosing on this house so now I have to move to an apartment and can't brew with my system yet. Jerk.

Just completed my eHERMS last week tested it all again tonight and will do my first batch on her tomorrow...very, very scared to tally it all up...I am sure its way north of $1,500 probably above $2k...for my single tier three vessel system, but will be worth every penny! Will post my final costs when I add it all up.

Ravenshead said:

Assuming you already have your pots and 220V service you can build a minimalist system with:

Breaker box- 17.00
220 V breaker- 9.00
10 ga cable- 2.00/ft figure on 10 ft=20.00
Heating elements (2) - 16.00
PID-45.00
RTD- 8.00
SSR- 10.00
Heat sink- 5.00

That comes out to $130-ish plus shop supplies to convert an existing three vessel system to electric. That's without pumps for HERMS, minimal safety features and no pretty lights. It's basically what I brew on though I've added the pump and coil for HERMS.

Click to expand...

at least add a gfci somewhere in that setup - i'd call that minimal for safety. you can get them inline to minimize setup/cost

I probably should add a GFCI but I haven't yet. Given the way I potted my elements, it's almost a non-credible failure mode to get a hot to pot/liquid short so I'm not overly worried. Gross corrosion of the element is the only mode I can think of. It's pretty cheap insurance though, so I'll add one soon-ish.

Well, my cost was probably around $1500. I did a fairly minimal setup. 240v ebiab with spa panel, single element, pid, and ssr. What cost me the most were buying the tools. I literally owned one screwdriver. So, add in the cost of buying drills, saws, bits, it'll get ya.

I actually just broke down my brew system. I am moving away from a 62q 240v 5500w rig to a 42q 120v 2000w stove assist. It was too big and too hard to move around as I had to keep it all in a closet when not brewing. I just couldn't stand pulling the stove out anymore.

I probably got by VERY cheap compared to most for an equivalent design. Why? I already had the kettles. But the key thing is shopping around and design flexibility.
Vendors:
1. Ebay (mostly Chinese vendors), and
2. Amazon
3. local HW store
4. BrewHardware and/or BargainFittings type of place

You gotta be careful AND patient with #1. I bought two PID controllers with manual mode (a lot of research) and SSRs. They are not as user friendly as the Auberin ones, but they were alot cheaper and work just fine. The RTDs, most connectors, switches, and indicator lights are all shipped from China. Inexpensive, good quality, but took a month.

I kept an eye on Amazon (#2) prices for plugs and receptacles and some cable, and found better prices than ebay on these. I even made a few design decision changes based upon what I could get cheap.

#3 - What can you say? No matter what you do, you may find some things at your local Homedepot, Lowes, Ace Hardware, etc. that, because of shipping and/or convienience, are the ticket. Generally, though, they are limited in terms of what you need, unless it could be used in homebuilding. (120V receptacles, wire, etc.)

#4 - Stainless parts are not cheap, but at least these two vendors have what you need to convert your kettles/pots for electric brewing without welding (e.g. - weldless fittings, sight gauges, etc. in stainless). I kept thinking the Chinese ebay vendors or Amazon could be cheaper for these, but it wasn't so.

Don't neglect shipping costs. Most things you need cannot be bought locally, and there are many vendors you must buy from. It's sometimes better to pay a few bucks more from a vendor where you are already buying things to save on shipping costs. And vendors with free shipping are essentially discounting the part(s) significantly.

Going cheap is a matter of having the time and being OK with less than spectacular bling. You can follow some build like Kal has done and get an outstanding build with much less effort and research time, or you can play with the numbers and be patient and do a lot of research.

Finally, consider BIAB electric. A single vessel design can save you a bundle. One PID, one SSR, one kettle, one heating element.