Indianapolis Tap Water Profile

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joelrapp

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Do another other brewers in Indianapolis, preferably the eagle creek area, have a complete water profile? I can't seem to get anything from the water company that provides me with much usefulness.
 
In your same boat man. I live in camby on the west side. We just have indianapolis water and i am unable to get a profile either. Wonder if i could take a sample to a pool shop and have them test it?
 
Here is a compendium of water profiles compiled by FBI (Foam Blowers of Indiana) members from the Greater Indy Area. These are all Ward Labs reports, so multiply the SO4-S reading by 3 to find the true SO4 concentration. As usual, use Bru'n Water to perform all your water adjustments if you want the best evaluation and adjustment of your brewing water. I strongly urge any Indy brewers to consider joining the FBI since its a great club!


West Side Indianapolis H20

pH 7.5
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 388
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.65
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.2 / 6.5

ppm
Sodium, Na 32
Potassium, K 3
Calcium, Ca 66
Magnesium, Mg 17
Total Hardness, CaCO3 236
Nitrate, NO3-N 2.6 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 20
Chloride, Cl 57
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 211
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 173

East of Indianapolis H2O

pH 7.5
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 368
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.61
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.8 / 6.1

ppm
Sodium, Na 33
Potassium, K 4
Calcium, Ca 58
Magnesium, Mg 17
Total Hardness, CaCO3 216
Nitrate, NO3-N 2.4 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 21
Chloride, Cl 55
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 187
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 153


West Side of Indianapolis H2O#2

pH 7.4
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 385
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.64
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.3 / 6.6

ppm
Sodium, Na 32
Potassium, K 3
Calcium, Ca 67
Magnesium, Mg 17
Total Hardness, CaCO3 238
Nitrate, NO3-N 2.7 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 20
Chloride, Cl 57
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 211
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 173


Southeast side of Indianapolis

pH 6.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 398
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.66
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.5 / 6.7

ppm
Sodium, Na 34
Potassium, K 3
Calcium, Ca 70
Magnesium, Mg 18
Total Hardness, CaCO3 250
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.6 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 20
Chloride, Cl 59
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 224
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 183


Near Eastside Indianapolis H2O

pH 7.6
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 380
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.63
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.2 / 6.4

ppm
Sodium, Na 17
Potassium, K 2
Calcium, Ca 73
Magnesium, Mg 20
Total Hardness, CaCO3 266
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.7 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 32
Chloride, C 33
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 205
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 168


Broadripple, IN H2O

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 349
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.58
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.6 / 5.7

ppm
Sodium, Na 25
Potassium, K 3
Calcium, Ca 59
Magnesium, Mg 18
Total Hardness, CaCO3 223
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.9 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 16
Chloride, Cl 50
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 197
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 161



Meridian-Kessler Indianapolis H2O

pH 7.3
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est378.0
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm... 0.63
Cations/Anions, me/L 6.6 / 6.7

ppm
Sodium, Na....................................... 22
Potassium, K..................................... 3
Calcium, Ca...................................... 74
Magnesium, Mg.................................... 23
Total Hardness, CaCO3............................ 281
Nitrate, NO3-N................................... 1.0
Sulfate, SO4-S................................... 21
Chloride, Cl..................................... 39
Carbonate, CO3................................... < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3................................ 258
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3.......................... 212
 
Here is some other surrounding towns for reference that could not be included in the post above. Enjoy!

Warning: the water profile for Carmel is NOT for the municipal tap water. That tap water is ion-exchange softened and is full of sodium and not suitable for brewing without RO treatment. PS: Westfield municipal water is also ion-exchange softened and not suitable for brewing use.


Zionsville - Public

pH 7.6
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 377
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.63
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.3 / 6.5

ppm
Sodium, Na 18
Potassium, K 3
Calcium, Ca 73
Magnesium, Mg 21
Total Hardness, CaCO3 270
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.7 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 33
Chloride, Cl 33
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 211
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 173

Fishers &#8211; Fall Creek WATER

pH 7.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 551
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.92
Cations / Anions, me/L 7.6 / 7.6

ppm
Sodium, Na 4
Potassium, K 283
Calcium, Ca 2
Magnesium, Mg < 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 9
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 11
Chloride, Cl 45
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 346
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 284


Carmel, IN H2O

pH 7.6
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 377
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.63
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.3 / 6.5

ppm
Sodium, Na 18
Potassium, K 3
Calcium, Ca 73
Magnesium, Mg 21
Total Hardness, CaCO3 270
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.7 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 33
Chloride, Cl 33
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 211
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 173


Carmel, Well H2O

pH 7.5
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est 435
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.73
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.9 / 7.1

ppm
Sodium, Na 13
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 68
Magnesium, Mg 24
Total Hardness, CaCO3 270
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.8 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 17
Chloride, Cl 37
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 303
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 249
Floride, F 0.30
Total Iron, Fe 0.02


Zionsville Well H2O

pH 7.5
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est. 381
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.63
Cations / Anions, me/L 6.3 / 6.5

ppm
Sodium, Na 21
Potassium, K 3
Calcium, Ca 73
Magnesium, Mg 20
Total Hardness, CaCO3 266
Nitrate, NO3-N 1.6 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 31
Chloride, Cl 36
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 211
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 173
 
Regarding the Indy water reports, they should all be relatively similar since the water source is either Fall Creek, White River, or Eagle Creek. You may see some difference in the east side vs. west side due to these differing sources. Of course, there is seasonal variation also.
 
Would the west side indianapolis report approximate that of Brownsburg?

Thanks!
Ryan
 
I know this is an old thread but since I haven't yet gotten to the point in my brewing career to delve into water profiles, does anyone have recommendations on what if anything needs to be added to our Indy water? Is there even an easy answer to this?
 
The main thing is to neutralize alkalinity as needed to produce an acceptable mash pH and to reduce the alkalinity of sparging water. Given the typically high alkalinity, using phosphoric acid will have the least flavor impact in the beers.
 
So these numbers are for the water coming to our house, right? Don't our water softeners change these numbers? I can't just plug them into the water profile software since the water coming out of my faucet is actually different, correct?
 
You will want to collect your water before it goes through your softener by using an outside spigot(no garden hose) or use a different way.
 
Martin, I use 5.2, is this really having the effect that I'm looking for? Can you give me a brief explanation either way? Would using phosphoric acid still be beneficial?

The main thing is to neutralize alkalinity as needed to produce an acceptable mash pH and to reduce the alkalinity of sparging water. Given the typically high alkalinity, using phosphoric acid will have the least flavor impact in the beers.
 
Martin, I use 5.2, is this really having the effect that I'm looking for? Can you give me a brief explanation either way? Would using phosphoric acid still be beneficial?

I'm clutching my chest! You guys are killing me.

5.2 has very little beneficial effect and anyone properly using an acid to acidify their mash would have NO need for that product. Drop it off in the nearest trash bin. Be sure you are acidifying your sparging water. That is a huge improvement by itself.
 
One more question Martin. I know to never use a salt based water softner, but what about the newish product on the market EZ Water? It is supposed to use an electrical charge on the water line to neutralize ions. What effect does this have on brewing water? I am considering one for the house and it's effect on my brewing will be a major factor.
 
I have not seen any confirmation by any source (other than the manufacturer) that those things work. Its also counter-intuitive...how could an electrical field affect the positive or negative charge on an ion. Those charges are teeny, but at the atomic level, they are huge. Those charges are much larger than the electrical field.

By the way, this scam has been going on for decades. Do try and keep your money in your pockets and save it for a RO system.

Another system you might see is based on using Citric acid to reduce hardness. That system does actually work because citrate causes metallic ions like Ca to chelate and effectively removes them from the water chemistry. Now, that chelated calcium is still in there, it just can't do anything. The acid part of the citric acid also neutralizes some of the water alkalinity. The problem with that system is that you'll spend a fortune on citric acid. So its not really too viable, but it does work. Again, save for RO!
 
Warning: the water profile for Carmel is NOT for the municipal tap water. That tap water is ion-exchange softened and is full of sodium and not suitable for brewing without RO treatment.

Old thread, I know. Sorry. I'm hoping Martin will see this.

The above statement was very interesting to me. I also live in Carmel, IN and am curious to know what effect brewing with the municipal tap water would have on, say, an English IPA. The water was run slowly through a carbon block filter then treated with campden. The malt bill was about 86% pale, 8% C60, 4% Amber, and 2% torrified wheat. Hop bill was moderate. Going for a fairly balanced beer. I do full volume mashes using BIAB. Before I got the filter, I commonly diluted the tap water with about 50% distilled for pale beers. Since getting the filter I haven't bothered. A porter made just before the English IPA, with just tap water, was pretty good. Not great, but good.

This beer was disappointing, and I'm trying to figure out why. Mash temps were good, OG and FG were close to expected. Foam and retention are pretty good. I've had an infected batch or 2 before but I'm fairly sure this one is not. The bitterness is aggressive, more so than expected, but there is little to no hop aroma or flavor, even with 2oz of dry hop still in the keg. The flavor is hard to describe and I'm not well versed with such things. Maybe minerally. Definitely bland, despite the bitterness. There's some malt there, but it's not a pleasant flavor. It's almost a funky, musty flavor (and smell), but not like the batches that I know were infected.

After reading this thread, I started to think it could be mostly a water issue and have spent a lot of time trying to get a better understanding of brewing water science. To test the hypothesis, I brewed another IPA last weekend using 100% distilled water with mineral and acid additions calculated using Bru'n Water. Not the same recipe as the English IPA, but fairly close.

I guess at this point I'm just wondering if the results are consistent with what one would expect using Carmel water, other things being equal.
 
Not martin, but I am also an Indy brewer and BIABer and have based my water treatment on Martin's advice posted above. The key with our water is to neutralize the alkalinity so that your mash PH is in the right range. The water is pretty good otherwise. I use Phosphoric acid (usually 5-8 ml in a 7.5 gallon full volume mash depending on style) and have found the improvement to my beers to be dramatic. This has helped both dark and lighter beers.

For the IPA's though, you may need to also look at adding sulfates to get the hop presence to pop. Adding Gypsum to the boil will definitely help. The sulfates help the hops come through.

NOTE: I base all my additions on BruN Water spreadsheet.
 
Hey Foosier. Thanks for the reply. It's interesting that you say the results were dramatic. I'm starting to realize that water has a more profound effect than I thought. I've read many times that you can make good to great beers without worrying too much about water. I'm sure that's true for many water sources, but Martin's post and the little bit of knowledge I've gained recently, leads me to believe that Carmel tap water is might be the culprit in many of my brewing struggles.

Cheers!
 
I personally was getting discouraged with my beers before I started treating my water. I did a porter and had a marked astringency which did not taste like it came from the malts. After looking into water treatment, it really seemed to be something I could control with a few simple adjustments to get to a better quality beer. I have asked this question of Martin also both here and in person and he confirmed that the alkalinity is the only real issue with Indy water (besides needing to treat with Campden to remove Chloramines). You can definitely take a KISS approach to adjusting your water, and it may be the best method anyway as many have said that over adjusted water can be a problem on its own.

I did a Porter late last year which was the first for brewing that style since I started adjusting my water. It came out MUCH better.

Good luck!
 
A porter made just before the English IPA, with just tap water, was pretty good. Not great, but good.

This beer was disappointing, and I'm trying to figure out why.

This is a classic case of brewing with high alkalinity water...which Carmel water is. The Porter has more acidic grains that help neutralize some of the water's alkalinity and the result was likely acceptable. However, the English IPA has a pale grist that lacks much acidity and the resulting wort pH was probably far higher than desirable. That can pull tannins and silicates from the grist, but your BIAB technique should have avoided that as long as you didn't rinse the bag with tap water. The one thing that the high wort pH does do, is to cause your hop bittering and character to be harsh and the beer to have dull flavor. Neutralizing the water's alkalinity prior to brewing is an important step in producing decent beer.

The other problem with Carmel water is that the sodium content is higher than desirable. It's up to 250 ppm and that can be on the verge of tasting salty. Having that much sodium in the water and then adding a lot of sulfate for an IPA can invite another form of minerally harshness. Again, not good.

Don't bother brewing with Carmel water and start pricing out a RO system so that you can avoid the many problems that the tap water imposes.
 
Wonderful information! Thank you both Martin and Foosier. This would seem to confirm what I'm seeing, and starting to understand. I'm glad I made another IPA starting with a clean slate and am excited to see how it compares to previous beers. And thank you Martin for your work on Bru'n Water. This will be a very useful tool.


One other question:

I use Phosphoric acid (usually 5-8 ml in a 7.5 gallon full volume mash depending on style).


Mind if I ask what strength of acid you're using? I got 75% phosphoric from Great Fermentations. Bru'n water told me I only needed 1.7 mL for a mash pH of 5.4. Again, using distilled. Assuming you're also using 75%, is the large difference in dosage due to the very high alkalinity in Indy water?
 
I know this is a far stretch but would anyone happen to have info on the Lafayette, IN water?
 
I don't, sorry. I wasn't brewing yet when I was up there. I wonder if LBC or Peoples would know anything about the tap water, although they probably use RO or similar. In my experience, the brewers at both are good people and would probably be willing to help.
 
I don't, sorry. I wasn't brewing yet when I was up there. I wonder if LBC or Peoples would know anything about the tap water, although they probably use RO or similar. In my experience, the brewers at both are good people and would probably be willing to help.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I've been trying to get to one of the THC monthly meetings but have had lots of "things" going on as of late. I'm sure they have a badass reverse osmosis system like you said.
 
Duderino. I have, but it was one of my first brews a few years ago. I don't remember it being a good beer, but I had bigger issues than water at that point. In my recent research I read a post from Martin saying many people have tried to brew with it and few have been successful. I'm not sure why exactly.
 
I was driving past the well on 116th today and thought about all the failures I've heard. That is hugely hard water with enormous alkalinity. If you boil it, it will drop a ton of sediment. At that point, it could be an OK brewing water for darker styles. But in general, using less mineralized water will produce better results.
 
Hello Mabrungard,

Any updated water report for the west side of indianapolis.

I just wanted to see if anything has changed much in the last few years.
I love the bru'n water app and use it for every brew day.
 
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