How dumb are your state/province's liquor laws?

This thread was inspired by some discussion about regional differences in alcohol rules, and it got me curious about some of the more absurd/outdated liquor laws that may be out there.

I think my jurisdiction (Ontario, Canada) has got to be one of the worst.

To start with, only the provincial government is allowed to sell bottled spirits. The LCBO (Liquor Control Board of Ontario) has a monopoly on selling all distilled spirits.

We also have a chain called the Beer Store that sells beer. However, it's owned jointly by AB Inbev and Molson Coors, so they only carry their own brands. Ironically, if you want craft beer, The Beer Store is the last place you should look. The LCBO has better beer selection than the Beer Store. However, the LCBO doesn't sell anything bigger than 6-packs. If you want a case, you have to go to the Beer Store.

If you want to buy beer or spirits anywhere else ... you're out of luck. Some grocery stores are allowed to sell wine, but that's it. The idea of running to the corner store to pick up a 6-pack of Coors is alien to Ontarians. It's not allowed. If you want beer, your only options are the LCBO or the Beer Store. If you want rum, vodka, or any other spirits, your only option is the LCBO.

That said, they are open on Sundays, and the drinking age here is 19.

Across the border, in Quebec, the drinking age is 18, and they do sell beer in corner stores. Heck, they even sell beer in Costco.

Finally, the taxes here in Ontario are brutal. A case of 24 "domestic" beer will run you between $35-$45, plus bottle deposit ($0.10/bottle). Also, our bars are not allowed to have "Happy Hours" where drinks are discounted (because that encourages binge drinking, donchaknow). Around here, "Happy Hour" means 10-cent wings. We even have minimum pricing for alcohol. The Beer Store is legally prohibited from selling a case of 24 bottles of beer for less than $29.35. And restaurants/bars are not allowed to sell beer for less than they paid for it (no loss-leading allowed on alcohol). Meaning, "buck-a-beer" is technically illegal in Ontario.

Thank goodness I make my own!

My state has some dumb laws pertaining to homebrew. You are limited to 200 gallons and you can't sell it to friends and family.

Please. I live in Alabama. All alcoholic beverages are controlled by the state alcohol control board. Private businesses can sell beer/wine, but only under crazy stringent laws. Blue laws abound (dry counties, wet counties that don't allow Sunday sales, etc).

Also, homebrewing is illegal.

Washington state just this last year finally allowed sales of liquor in grocery stores over x amount of square footage. Before that it was only for sale in state run liquor stores. The bill that allowed it was hugely contested for some reason with the idea that it would increase DUIs and that Sunday sales would do the same...uhh anyone who wants to drink liquor on Sunday just buys more on Saturday

In North Carolina, all distilled spirits are sold through the ABC store. Beer is capped at 15% ABV, most(all?) counties have no sales of beer/wine before noon on Sunday. ABC is closed Sundays. Some counties are still completely dry. Some have a wet city within a dry county.

In Tennessee, any beer over 6.5% ABV must be sold in liquor stores and beer below 6.5% can be sold anywhere. However, if you own a liquor store beer below 6.5% cannot be unless you have a completely separate retail space for said items. This results in many liquor stores that only have high gravity beer that gets treated as a red headed step child (low turnover, staff doesn't give a damn, etc).

NJ is decent. 10pm liquor store closings. Though some places shut down at 9pm. Grocery stores sell liquor. Tons of beer fests.

Florida is pretty legit. You can buy beer til like 2am at gas stations even.

Homebrewing is legal in both states. And you have some pretty good beer options. None of that abv% restriction crap.

Can't sell wine or liquor or wine at grocery. That is all!!

You asked.

Louisville KY is pretty good. Only beer in grocery stores, but we do have 4 am closing times and can buy liquor on Sundays. The rest if the state isn't as great.

I do remember visiting Toronto in college. Rolled in the first day at 9 pm, couldn't get beer anywhere except a bar. Guys at the gas station thought we were nuts for even asking about it.

Not so bad here in Las Vegas.......

Alcohol law as it relates to consumers is fairly reasonable here in CA. The one thing I don't like is that it's one of the very few states where children under 21 are not allowed by law to have even a sip of any alcohol, in their own homes, even when provided by their own parents, or even at church for religious reasons. That's just plain silly, even if there is no way to enforce it. Theoretically some kid's friend could report their parents for providing alcohol to a minor- that's absurd.

This stuff seems so strange when I travel to other states, no weird state regulations on booze here that I am aware of. I can go to any gas station, corner store, or supermarket here (that has the permit to sell alcohol) to buy booze until at least 10 PM (or is it 2 AM i dunno). The only limiting factor is my thin wallet.

Everything else is regulated however, CA would put a carbon tax on breathing if they could, lol.

FL has the silliest growler laws in the country (besides outlawing them altogether, that is):

0-32 oz Growler sales = LEGAL
128+ oz Growler sales = LEGAL
32.00000001-127.99999999 oz Growler sales = ILLEGAL!

On the good side, beers over 5.0% and bottles of beer over 12 oz were completely illegal in FL until the early 2000s, so at least we're moving in the right direction! That change in law opened the floodgates for actual good craft beer in the state, which we are now enjoying

We also have a resemblance of an old south blue law, where you can't buy alcohol of any kind from 3:01 a.m. to 11:00 a.m. on Sundays, but that's pretty standard. Wouldn't want to show up to church drunk, now would we.... Good thing I don't wake up before 11:00 on Sundays

I live in Utah, and the Mormons have done a pretty good job of f***ing up everything related to alcohol. Nothing can be sold in grocery stores or on tap greater than 4% ABV, which means local breweries have to water down there beer to sell it in bulk, also no selling wine or spirits at the grocery store because no one wants 4% ABV wine.

We can buy large packages of beer at the grocery store but its all 4%, and taxes are outrageous so its expensive lightly alcoholic water. The state controls the sale of everything higher than 4% in state run liquor stores. They shut down two profitable liquor stores recently to "save money" so getting to one is ridiculous. Most of the liquor stores near my house close at 6PM and aren't open on sunday.

Breweries and restaurants can sell higher ABV beer but it can never be kegged, and has to be served and sold by the bottle at outrageous prices, and they have to get a special license. So if you want a craft beer thats not watered down you pay out the butt and if you're not in a restaurant you have to go to the liquor store. At beer festivals like our Oktoberfest in Snowbird everything is either water, or the brewery has to bring it up in bottles and they charge you $12 for half of a 22oz bottle poured into a cup.

And when it comes to festivals or holidays breweries are not allowed to brew beer specifically for them, if they make a new beer it can not have an occasion.

They also have quotas for how many liquor selling licenses that they will give out and even if a restaurant is a chain like Outback they have to have a separate license for each restaurant, so a lot of companies won't even open restaurants here, not to mention the system is rigged so that the more money a company can spend the more likely they are to get a license.

Another thing they did was banned all of the fruity alcoholic drinks like the bacardi razz and mikes hard lemonade and stuff like that because they say it promotes underage drinking. Personally other than the fact that its an infringement on freedom, I'm not too broken hearted about that since that craps gross. My wife wasn't to happy about that one because she is demented and doesn't drink beer.

They also have banned all drink specials in local establishments, so no Margarita Mondays or anything like that. If they reduce the price then that has to be the price forever which means we get no dollar draft days or anything good like that.

They haven't placed any restrictions on homebrewing thank god, but one of the senators said that "hombrewing is fraught with mischief" so I think its just a matter of time before they start trying to restrict it.

Because of the stupid laws homebrewing is pretty popular. There are 4 LHBS within 20 miles of my house and they compete on their prices pretty well; so I guess I'll stop whining and go brew more beer.:rockin:

I'm use to the laws in Texas but need to change soon. Liquor stores are close Sundays and have to close at 9 during the week and 10 on Saturdays. No alcohol can be sold sunday morning before noon. There is beer and wine at grocery stores but no liquor and the cap for grocery stores is 15.5% abv (includes wine) if higher has to be sold at liquor stores (though i've seen DFH 120 at grocery stores)

The stupidest law is that a commercial brewery can not sell beer on premise only in stores/bars. A brewpub can sell on premise but not in stores. So, very few places have growlers because you cant sell growlers if you sell liquor and you cant get it at a brewery. I hope that changes because i want to have a few pints at a brewery/source.

The only laws I'm aware of in VA that are somewhat restrictive are:

1. Liquor stores close at 9pm (who buys for a party that late anyway?)
2. No beer or wine sales after 11:45pm (If you run out of beer that late it's probably for the best that you do not continue drinking heavily)
These laws are in place to minimize late night intoxicated drivers going for "more booze!" I have no problem with these.

Other than that VA is pretty lax; craft beer is sold at all grocery stores and some gas stations even have a few decent craft offerings.

Happy hour is common place and almost all restaurants offer some form of happy hour special. My favorite special is at Buffalo Wild Wings on Monday; all draft beer $1.75/pt all night including all craft beers (25 on tap!) We usually go every Monday to try the weekly rotation of regional craft offerings. Can't beat an $8 tab for 4 pints!

RTL said:

And when it comes to festivals or holidays breweries are not allowed to brew beer specifically for them, if they make a new beer it can not have an occasion.

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????

Wow - That's a new one to me. Never heard of that before, that's pretty crazy.

RTL said:

one of the senators said that "hombrewing is fraught with mischief"

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Oh crap, they're on to us!

Seriously though, it sounds like you have it worse than us in Utah.

RTL said:

They haven't placed any restrictions on homebrewing thank god, but one of the senators said that "hombrewing is fraught with mischief" so I think its just a matter of time before they start trying to restrict it.

Because of the stupid laws homebrewing is pretty popular. There are 4 LHBS within 20 miles of my house and they compete on their prices pretty well; so I guess I'll stop whining and go brew more beer.:rockin:

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Actually, homebrewing in Utah just became legal about two years ago, if I remember the time period correctly!

In Pennsylvania things are pretty f'ed up as well. Liquor and wine is sold by the state (they have some stores inside grocery stores, but they are still operated by the PA LCB. On the plus side they've expanded the wine offerings, opened some stores on Sunday and gotten more competitive on pricing (mostly because it is just too easy to drive to Delaware or New Jersey in SE PA.) Home brewing is legal (thankfully) but beer sales are stuck in the past. You have to go to a beer distributor to get decent pricing - but you must by full cases and/or kegs. If you want a six pack or some 22oz bottles you have to go to a bar/restaurant that has a carry-out license. Prices are higher and you can buy no more 192 ounces at a time.

Luckily the licenses for brew pubs and breweries isn't that restricted and we have some decent ones in the area. Craft beer is at least easy to get in there!

DisturbdChemist said:

I'm use to the laws in Texas but need to change soon. Liquor stores are close Sundays and have to close at 9 during the week and 10 on Saturdays.

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You're a little off on Texas laws. Liquor store close at 9, period, even on Saturday. No liquor sales on Sunday. Beer and wine can be sold until midnight on Sun-Fri, and till 1am on Sat night.

No alcohol can be sold sunday morning before noon.

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True.

There is beer and wine at grocery stores but no liquor and the cap for grocery stores is 15.5% abv (includes wine) if higher has to be sold at liquor stores (though i've seen DFH 120 at grocery stores)

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While it's true that there are no liquor sales allowed at a grocery store, I'm not sure where you got that ABV number. The reason you saw DFH 120 at a grocery store is because that's perfectly legal. The only ABV cap is on wine sales on Sundays, and that's 17%. Any other cap is from TABC's definition of "beer" and "wine", and that isn't specific to grocery stores.

The stupidest law is that a commercial brewery can not sell beer on premise only in stores/bars. A brewpub can sell on premise but not in stores. So, very few places have growlers because you cant sell growlers if you sell liquor and you cant get it at a brewery. I hope that changes because i want to have a few pints at a brewery/source.

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The easiest way to look at this is: if you manufacture beer, you can either distribute or you can serve. One or the other, not both.

And yes, it's extremely stupid. Also, asininely hypocritical, as it doesn't apply to wine. :smack:

Manitoba is similar to Ontario. The MLCC is the only place you can buy spirits. Beer stores that sell cases of swill are allowed but only in hotels, and there are some wine stores, but anyone selling any alcoholic beverage sold in Manitoba has to go through the MLCC. Their markup on beer and wine is 75%. So if you are a microbrewery in Manitoba that sells beer right out of the brewery you are selling it to the MLCC and buying it back for 75% more before you can sell it

The hours aren't too bad, the Liquor store by my house is open until 10pm weekdays, 11pm Saturday.

RTL you forgot the Zion curtian. Or did they finally get rid of that stupid law?

Oh, and I forgot to mention there is the "temporary" tax on alcohol known as the Johnstown Flood Tax. It started in 1936 as a 10% tax on all alcohol sold in PA (on top of sales tax) and has ballooned to 18% now. None of that tax revenue goes to assist anyone impacted by floods - it's just dumped into the general fund now (and they wonder why people near the border buy in Delaware or NJ?)

mcbaumannerb said:

In Pennsylvania things are pretty f'ed up as well. Liquor and wine is sold by the state (they have some stores inside grocery stores, but they are still operated by the PA LCB. On the plus side they've expanded the wine offerings, opened some stores on Sunday and gotten more competitive on pricing (mostly because it is just too easy to drive to Delaware or New Jersey in SE PA.) Home brewing is legal (thankfully) but beer sales are stuck in the past. You have to go to a beer distributor to get decent pricing - but you must by full cases and/or kegs. If you want a six pack or some 22oz bottles you have to go to a bar/restaurant that has a carry-out license. Prices are higher and you can buy no more 192 ounces at a time.

Luckily the licenses for brew pubs and breweries isn't that restricted and we have some decent ones in the area. Craft beer is at least easy to get in there!

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YUP! My family is all from PA and I have to go to Philly area often for work....I hate not being able to just grab a six pack at the local gas station when I'm in PA!

RTL said:

I live in Utah, and the Mormons... <snip>

Most of the liquor stores near my house close at 6PM and aren't open on sunday.

<snip>

Another thing they did was banned all of the fruity alcoholic drinks like the bacardi razz and mikes hard lemonade and stuff like that because they say it promotes underage drinking. Personally other than the fact that its an infringement on freedom, I'm not too broken hearted about that since that craps gross. My wife wasn't to happy about that one because she is demented and doesn't drink beer.

<snip>

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Nor are they open on any State or Federal holiday. Fortunately the closest DABC store to me closes at 10 PM.

Just so you know, you can buy said "fruity" drinks at the DABC stores.

Just to add to RTL's list...

* Some cities here in Utah county allow beer sales on Sunday... Some don't...

* No underage drinking EVER. Period...

* All draft beer is 4% ABV or less. Usually watered down to meet said criteria, and yes... you can taste that it has been watered down. Learned that one the hard way when I first moved here.

* Zion curtain for all new bars or restaurants because alcohol out of sight is alcohol out of mind. Wouldn't want children and members of the area's predominant religion to be "offended" that there are people who may actually enjoy drinking. I've heard rumor of a "special" license (read $$$) that allows an establishment to forego said curtain. Not certain though...

* Bars and restaurants must use meters on their liquor bottles to make sure they do not pour more than 1.5 ounces at a time. Other liquors can be added to cocktails in lesser amounts, not to exceed 2.5 ounces of liquor in a drink, as long as they are poured from bottles clearly marked "flavoring."

I'm sure I've missed a few...

UtahNate said:

Nor are they open on any State or Federal holiday. Fortunately the closest DABC store to me closes at 10 PM.

Just so you know, you can buy said "fruity" drinks at the DABC stores.

Just to add to RTL's list...

* Some cities here in Utah county allow beer sales on Sunday... Some don't...

* No underage drinking EVER. Period...

* All draft beer is 4% ABV or less. Usually watered down to meet said criteria, and yes... you can taste that it has been watered down. Learned that one the hard way when I first moved here.

* Zion curtain for all new bars or restaurants because alcohol out of sight is alcohol out of mind. Wouldn't want children and members of the area's predominant religion to be "offended" that there are people who may actually enjoy drinking. I've heard rumor of a "special" license (read $$$) that allows an establishment to forego said curtain. Not certain though...

* Bars and restaurants must use meters on their liquor bottles to make sure they do not pour more than 1.5 ounces at a time. Other liquors can be added to cocktails in lesser amounts, not to exceed 2.5 ounces of liquor in a drink, as long as they are poured from bottles clearly marked "flavoring."

I'm sure I've missed a few...

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I thought I was missing a few, there are probably more that both of us are forgetting. And they have the balls to call this a "free country," it's laughable.

Other than the taxes, NY's liquor laws are pretty damned lax. No open containers in public, but you can pretty much get alcohol around the clock and almost anywhere. There's a slight break on sunday morning, but that's it. Regular supermarkets can even sell some wines.

no off sale on Sundays. you can sit in a bar all day & get as hammered as you want, but don't taker any beer home to drink there.

In Louisiana where I grew up; You can buy Jack Daniels as you checkout at the grocery store since the liquor is right next to the chewing gum!

the new government here is trying to pass a law that liquor cannot be sold to under 18's!! but 16 and up and can still possess and drink liquor, and buy beer and wine
hahaha!!

Here in Illinois, it's mostly governed on a township-to-township basis. Thus, out here in BFE, you have to drive a little ways if you want to get anything on a Sunday. In my town, there are only two liquor licenses, and they're both held by the 2 bars we have here. A big part of the reason I got into HB in the first place is the scant selection of good beer out here in the boonies.

Yooper said:

Actually, homebrewing in Utah just became legal about two years ago, if I remember the time period correctly!

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It was actually four years in March of 2012. Technically it wasn't illegal to homebrew prior to that. The problem was that there was no distinction between homebrewing and commercial brewing, so if you were willing to post a $10,000 bond with the state, you could legally homebrew.

If I could do away with one stupid law in Utah it would be the 4% restriction on draft beer. It makes no sense that I can't get a >4% beer on tap but I can get one in the bottle.

Separation of Church and State was skimmed over when Utah became a state.

I think most of the idiot laws have been covered, the Zion curtain is probably the most idiotic imo.

kombat said:

Finally, the taxes here in Ontario are brutal. A case of 24 "domestic" beer will run you between $35-$45, plus bottle deposit ($0.10/bottle).

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Out here in the hinterland folks are paying $45-$50 for a two-four. I was in Ontario for a conference this summer and was hearing ads on the radio for 24 beer for (IIRC) about $28. Small towns out here $28 just gets you a dozen.

Oh, but we have "free" health care.

Surprised nobody's mentioned MA yet!

Compared to some of the other things I just read, we don't have it too bad. Plenty of locally owned fantastic beer/liquor stores, and decent distribution here.

Some MA quirks:
1) No happy hour / drink specials allowed
2) A franchise/chain can only have 3 stores in the state that get liquor licenses. So even if there are 10 Trader Joes, only 3 can sell beer/wine.

I grew up in NH and that wasn't bad. Beer and wine can be sold in grocery stores, but liquor stores were state owned. This is actually fine, since the state gets the profit the booze is generally dirt cheap. And the selection's not bad.

microbusbrewery said:

It was actually four years in March of 2012. Technically it wasn't illegal to homebrew prior to that. The problem was that there was no distinction between homebrewing and commercial brewing, so if you were willing to post a $10,000 bond with the state, you could legally homebrew.

If I could do away with one stupid law in Utah it would be the 4% restriction on draft beer. It makes no sense that I can't get a >4% beer on tap but I can get one in the bottle.

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I agree that for me the most frustrating restriction is the 4% limit on draft beer and beer sold in grocery stores/gas stations.

For my wife it was pulling wine coolers (flavored malt beverages) out of grocery stores and gas stations. My understanding is that the daughter of a state legislator got busted drinking. Her excuse was that she didn't know there was alcohol in wine coolers. The legislator dubbed wine coolers "alco-pops" and got them removed from the stores so that underage kids wouldn't accidentally get drunk thinking they were drinking a fruit drink.

Reading this thread is funny. Here in Utah we're all up in arms thinking we're the only ones with silly nonsense liquor laws. Turns out some have it even worse than we do.

Oh, one that has been forgotten. A few years ago a few local micro-breweries got together and invested in a large bottling facility. They bought equipment to fill the 5L mini kegs, which was perfectly legal at the time. I think it was the very next legislative session Sen. Valentine (he sponsors all the liquor related legislation) tackled that "loop-hole" and banned the sale of 5L mini kegs. So the local micro breweries were out whatever they had spent on that equipment in less than a year. Yet I can still walk over to the gas station and buy as many 30pks of Natural Light as my heart desires.

Kegs cannot be sold to the general public. No mini-bottles of liquor at all.

But you can by beer (limit 4%abv) at gas stations until 1am.

zachattack said:

Surprised nobody's mentioned MA yet!

Compared to some of the other things I just read, we don't have it too bad. Plenty of locally owned fantastic beer/liquor stores, and decent distribution here.

Some MA quirks:
1) No happy hour / drink specials allowed
2) A franchise/chain can only have 3 stores in the state that get liquor licenses. So even if there are 10 Trader Joes, only 3 can sell beer/wine.

I grew up in NH and that wasn't bad. Beer and wine can be sold in grocery stores, but liquor stores were state owned. This is actually fine, since the state gets the profit the booze is generally dirt cheap. And the selection's not bad.

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Yeah, MA was a shock for me when I moved there from Louisiana... More than once I ended up driving to RI or NH because I had not planned properly. We even had trouble getting served in restaurants and taverns, they claim they can't verify the validity of any id except a MA drivers license. Private clubs were a bit weird too.

mcbaumannerb said:

In Pennsylvania things are pretty f'ed up as well. Liquor and wine is sold by the state (they have some stores inside grocery stores, but they are still operated by the PA LCB. On the plus side they've expanded the wine offerings, opened some stores on Sunday and gotten more competitive on pricing (mostly because it is just too easy to drive to Delaware or New Jersey in SE PA.) Home brewing is legal (thankfully) but beer sales are stuck in the past. You have to go to a beer distributor to get decent pricing - but you must by full cases and/or kegs. If you want a six pack or some 22oz bottles you have to go to a bar/restaurant that has a carry-out license. Prices are higher and you can buy no more 192 ounces at a time.

Luckily the licenses for brew pubs and breweries isn't that restricted and we have some decent ones in the area. Craft beer is at least easy to get in there!

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On the plus side, grocery stores have broken the code for beer sales, and now Whole Foods and Wegmans are selling beer. Whole Foods in particular is doing a great job of it where they sell it (you have to have sit-down food service to qualify). They have little pubs built into the stores that have beers on tap (normally local drafts) and a great selection of locals, craft beers from elsewhere around the country and Europeans, all kept in a room that's dark and chilled to about 45F. Wegmans have HUGE selection though the one nearest me has a kind of an awkward check out system.

A succession of governors have tried to do away with the state run system and failed, but Corbett seems to have a decent plan...maybe he'll succeed.

Wow.... I had no idea. Here in Georgia I thought no Sunday sales was bad. Now it's city by city and not before 11 or12? About 5 years ago the law restricting "beer" above 6% was overturned, anything above was to be labeled " malt liquor." Liquor stores stop selling at 11:30 here, but I think that'd regional. Nothing else... I thought ga was resistive, but no happy hour, state ran liquor stores, and limiting license sales? Absolutely incredible. Just let me do what I want unless I'm hurting anyone else!!