NorthernB 200+IBU Slavic Triple IPA

I am about to dive into this huge recipe (putting together the ingredients on my own) but the Slavic hop blend is going to be hard to come by... anybody had any experience with subbing for Slavic hops? From what I know, this blend produces a delicate bouqet and I don't want to screw the balance up on a beer this complex and beautiful...

Here are the notes from NB forum...

Imperial Slavic Ale
OG 1.092
FG 1.012
BU 22
SRM 8
ABV 10.5%
Ready: 8 weeks
ISA! If California can have its double IPAs, why can't one of the finest hop growing regions in the world do it one better!? This /triple/ IPA clocks in with a face-melting +200 IBUs given by a full half pound of hops. We have added three pounds of Orange blossom honey to this beast which lends a sweet citrus character that blends perfectly with the floral and pungent hop bouquet. At approx. 11% abv, this is one bad matka...can you handle it?

Recipe
Extract - 9.15lb Pilsen LME
All grain - 12lb pils - german; Mash - 147F x 60min

Ingredients to both:
3lb Orange blossom honey
1lb Caravienne

Boil: 90min

Hops:
ISA hop blend

Yeast:
WYeast 9093PC Imperial Blend

Notes
- This is something I've been working on for a while. There are so many bad examples of IIPA's out there...enough to turn one off them. The biggest thing I find wrong with them is that they finish way too sweet. I've added a few procedural changes to hopefully prevent this from happening.
- Sugar addition - one adds a decent portion of sugar to keep the beer from being too thick. Most people use table sugar. In this case I have chosen to use Orange Blossom honey which not only gives the added extract it adds the citrus character for which it is known. Additionally, the honey is not added to the boil but directly to the primary fermenter AFTER the beer is actively fermenting for two (2) reasons: 1) OB honey is delicate and boiling it will kill the citrus character and 2) if you wait until after the beer starts fermenting you are actually 'feeding' the yeast with the OB honey. More active yeast around the drier beer will finish (to a point).
- ISA hop blend (6oz) - Mostly Slavic hops such as, Marnka, Premiant and Sladek. This blend will be added in stages from 45min to zero along with some to dry hop as follows: 20,15,10,5,0 - 0.75oz ISA at each time point; dry hop - 0.75oz ISA blend at day 7 in primary fermenter. however you can add the hops anyway you see fit...I suggest you start with the above though.
- Re dry hopping - A little different technique than most use. The reason we dry hop in the primary fermenter is to reduce the amount 'dunk' in the 2ndary and to ensure that the hops don't sit to long. Anywhere from 2-5 days is good.

Sounds good, I have had a very hard time getting my double IPA's down under 1.015. Hopefully that yeast will do its job. Are you sure it can handle all of that honey.

The only thing that I'd say is that yes, California has IIPAs, but Vinnie Cilurzo at Russian River (the first brewer to make a double IPA), has already brewed a fantastic triple IPA, Pliny the Younger, weighing in at 11% abv and several hundred IBUs. Anyways, it sounds pretty great. The only thing I worry about is getting 200 IBUs from mostly late hop additions being an incredible mass of hops, making transferring a little tricky. Best of luck!

Jedno pivo prosim. Na zdravie!!

200 IBU is impossible, regardless of what the software is telling you. Boiling at 212F, you can't get much more than 100 IBU.

david_42 said:

200 IBU is impossible, regardless of what the software is telling you. Boiling at 212F, you can't get much more than 100 IBU.

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How so? what is the science behind that? just curious.

headwithwings said:

How so? what is the science behind that? just curious.

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I believe that humans cannot perceive bittering over around 100 IBU's

I cant see why wort and the resulting beer cant be crammed with 200+ though it may be a waste of hops.........................

axlrose16 said:

Imperial Slavic Ale
OG 1.092
FG 1.012
BU 22
SRM 8
ABV 10.5%
Ready: 8 weeks

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I want to go to there...

babalu87 said:

I believe that humans cannot perceive bittering over around 100 IBU's

I cant see why wort and the resulting beer cant be crammed with 200+ though it may be a waste of hops.........................

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I'm not expert, but from what I have heard and read, the "maximum" amount of IBUs that is soluble in wort is around 100. Beyond that, you won't necessarily get more biterness, you'll just be adding hop oils (flavor).

For example, the Pliny clone is over 200 in ProMash, but Vinnie usually lists the IBUs around 90 in the pub.
Russian River Brewing Chalkboard

yeeeeesh - didn't expect some of the non-hopheads to troll on this beer. either way - please note that the hop additions are spaced fairly evenly through the boil and the 200+ IBU's are merely a byproduct of the flavor I hope to attain. Also - my intent for this post was to determine whether others had any experience with this slavic blend of hops, since I may have trouble acquiring them locally and may have to substitute. Thanks again...

axlrose16, just because you're not getting lauded with praise doesn't mean we're trolling you or even non hopheads. 100 IBU is the human threshold for human taste and has been documented as such. For more info on IBUs read here here and here

I've never heard of Marnka, Premiant and Sladek so I don't have an opinion on them.

Also, with that many hops, you're not going to taste that honey at all. Honey aroma is delicate, and any kind of IPA is aggressive. Plus if you add it to the boil all the aroma will also make it disappear. All honey will do is ferment out completely. If you're wanting a citrus aroma summit or one of the C hops (cascade, centennial, columbus, etc) will add that.

That said, I love me some IPA!

frolickingmonkey said:

I want to go to there...

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haha. I see i've found another 30 rock fan...

EvilTOJ said:

I've never heard of Marnka, Premiant and Sladek so I don't have an opinion on them.

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I've never heard of them either, but I'm interested in learning... Hopefully someone knows about these varieties.

EvilTOJ said:

if you add [honey] to the boil all the aroma will also make it disappear.

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That's why the recipe calls for the honey to be added directly to the fermenter after fermentation has started...

jjp36 said:

haha. I see i've found another 30 rock fan...

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Indeed. Would I be correct to assume that you live every week like it's shark week?

axlrose16, hopefully you are able to find alternate sources for these ingredients that are cheaper than NB. If you substitute, I'm curious to hear of the results. It would be cool to make this recipe and then share it with my Slavic grandparents and see them beam with pride when I tell them it's made with ingredients from the "old country." And then see their bitter beer faces once the IIPA hits their lips!

frolickingmonkey - thanks for the positive feedback and "defense"/proofreading of my original post on my behalf. I will certainly let everybody know how the substitutions pan out.

Evil - I wasn't looking for praise...but I will when the beer is finished...and, as I stated before, I'm not merely aiming for high IBU's. The hops are pitched at even intervals throughout the boil and will be contributing more to the beer than mere bittering. Calm down.

EvilTOJ said:

axlrose16, just because you're not getting lauded with praise doesn't mean we're trolling you or even non hopheads. 100 IBU is the human threshold for human taste and has been documented as such. For more info on IBUs read here here and here

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I knew I read that somewhere, thanks

I made the northern brewer kit last night, and this morning the lid blew off of my fermenter bucket. It scared the bejesus outta me! That imperial blend yeast is serious business and I hope we can harness its energy for peaceful purposes. This is easily the best smelling and most vigorous fermentation I've ever had.

Nice! Can't wait to get started on this brew next weekend

axlrose16 said:

Nice! Can't wait to get started on this brew next weekend

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I take it you sucked it up and bought the NB kit? Between you and Wintermute, the peer pressure is building! I'm going to have to dig REALLY deep under the couch cushions to find the change for that kit...

no I didn't buy the kit I'm changing the recipe

axlrose16 said:

no I didn't buy the kit I'm changing the recipe

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What subs are you making? Summits and Cs like EvilTOJ suggested? Or?

david_42 said:

200 IBU is impossible, regardless of what the software is telling you. Boiling at 212F, you can't get much more than 100 IBU.

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isn't it a saturation issue that will only allow the IBU'S to be around 100+?

I think maybe "technically" you can do 200 IBU's, but human perception stops at 100. Or something like that.

hopsalot said:

isn't it a saturation issue that will only allow the IBU'S to be around 100+?

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I believe its a combination of saturation and the volatility of hop oils. Attaining a 'laboratory' rating of 100+ IBU is difficult/impossible, but it is still important to note that adding in more hops than 100 IBU on the brew sheet does good things to beers and is still worth measuring.

Check this out.
Deschutes Brewery Blog Archive Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics

saq said:

I believe its a combination of saturation and the volatility of hop oils. Attaining a 'laboratory' rating of 100+ IBU is difficult/impossible, but it is still important to note that adding in more hops than 100 IBU on the brew sheet does good things to beers and is still worth measuring.

Check this out.
Deschutes Brewery Blog Archive Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics

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Good read.

I'm pretty sure that surpassing 100 IBU's in a beer may be technically "wasteful" or off the scales as far as bittering is concerned but there's certainly something to be gained from big pitches late in the boil. I've had my fair share of tasting beers which break through the 100 IBU "barrier" and the flavor gained with the extra portions of hops is fantastic. A big bouquet is just another big factor in balancing all those malt characters in any hefty beer. Speaking of which - I hope to see some of you at the Boulder Strong Ale Festival tomorrow or Saturday!!!