copper lines instead of silicone

I've been kicking around the idea of using copper instead of silicone. i was thinking 1/2" with unions so I could disassemble and clean with brushes if I needed to. Is there any drawbacks other than not being able to see through it. Would you have to leave some water in the lines to prevent buildup or scaling. Any opinons would be great thank you

Curious on this too. I've debated the same. Seems like when I have anything on my copper, StarSan takes it right off. Might be as easy as pumping a gallon of StarSan through the system before and after each brew????

It's a good option....but you should store them dry....otherwise you'll just get funk in there. Use something like brasso from time to time and protect the copper or it'll oxidize quickly and appear dull....I wouldn't recommend clear lacquer because it's a PITA to remove. Barkeepers friend works awesome for knocking off the oxidation, but it doesn't really protect the finish....so maybe use that once in a while for upkeep.

Thanks, the only other thing i'm not sure of is seeing where the air lock are if one of my pumps is not priming, but I guess if your outlet is going back up the bubbles should pass through the pump. I've searched on here and other sites but can't find many setups with copper lines though.

I considered copper on my rig, but decided against it. I'm glad I did. I wouldn't trade my silicone with QD's for anything. Here's a few advantages for silicone:

1.) If you have trouble getting a pump to prime, you can just detach it, lower it, and let gravity help you.

2.) You can see what's happening. Don't discount the visibility too much. I think it's pretty important. It helps to know where the liquid is when priming a pump.

3.) You can easily change your mind about how things are run with soft tubing. It is so easy to move liquid around between any of the vessels when you can just reattach the QD's anywhere.

4.) In 30 seconds, my tubing is disconnected and hanging to dry. This also allows my pumps to be open and dry.

5.) Much less heat loss during a recirculation, if that is an issue to for you. Although you could insulate copper, I suppose.

There's pluses and minuses. Silicone IS great because you can see what you're doing.....but it kinks (especially if you don't have 90 degree QD's)....look at Coderage's setup.....he's got a nice copper manifold. If you orient the pumps properly and bleed the air, it works quite well.

I have alot of good posts about silicone but the copper is .97/ft. at Lowes and you can buy bulk fittings. Also if you want to replumb or replace a fitting you can drive to the store and there is no shipping. I'll check out Coderage's manifold. My biggest concern is keeping the inside of the lines clean. I guess I will price out both ways and make a decision...Hopefully today

Silicone is pretty pricey; I almost fainted when I saw what 1 ft of 3/4" ID silicone cost. If you use PBW/oxiclean regularly with the occasional acid wash you'll be fine. I'm in the same situation with triclover plumbing...it's all pretty much CIP and I can't see the inside. FWIW, I hope you go with copper. It looks really awesome when it's all polished up and you can pretty much run it in any direction you want.

Scuba I agree it's pricey to say the least looking at about 150 for hoses and qd's. Yea the copper looks great cleaned I'm almost sure I'm going that way. BTW your wooden stand is Awesome!!!

Well it's official I just ordered all my qd's from barginfittings.com. As much as I like the copper look I just couldn't look past the ease of use and being able to see whats going on inside the lines. thanks for everyones input. I should be brewing shortly!

Here is a picture of a hard piped system I built for a local brewer. Just use a little CS and its very easy to keep clean. I have been using the same design for about 15 years.






I rise well and use PBW about ever third brewing.


God Bless
Dominus Vobiscum
Swagman

I like it Swagman! I ordered my fittings though and now theres no turning back today I'm going to search around for the best price on a 809 and hoping to have this thing up and running in about a week or two.

You might be interested in this pump:
Chugger-Pump-Stainless-Steel-Home-Brew-Pump

It is at an awesome price at the moment. There is a thread about them on HBT HERE

I ordered one today P-J, thanks for link. that should do it

I'm glad I mentioned it. Please post back your opinion and how it works out for you.
It looks like an awesome pump and a super deal to boot.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I just did the exact opposite. I spent around 9 months of evening and weekends building a hard line copper plumbed system and just recently tore it all apart and went to cam-lock fittings and silicone tubing. The reasons have nothing to do with cleaning funk, I always used PBW right after brewing to clean out all the lines and then rinsed with 180 degree (F) water. It all had to do with priming the pumps and leaky unions as well as having hard line fittings attached to my kettle and HLT that were always in the way when I was cleaning. Bar Keepers friend was my best asset for cleaning this stuff. It sure looked pretty with all that copper and I had close to 20 unions to make everything easy to disassemble. This drove up the cost significantly.

Before:


After:


This system is much easier to work with and surprisingly, my efficiency went from 65% to over 70%. I have no idea why, just my observations.

One more thing: The plumbing diagrams for the hard line system are available here is you are interested in what everything show does and all the parts that are not seen because they are under the table top.

For what it costs to do copper, you can do stainless for not too much more. With a coarse scotch brite pad I cut flats all along the piping to give it a bit of an antique hammered texture. Then, I polished all of the plumbing to a mirror finish and painted it with some clear disk caliper spray paint. Never had an issue with tarnishing. It really is quite beautiful with the contrast between stainless and copper and have had a lot of compliments on it's aesthetic value to the room from non-brewers.

As for getting in the way, I've never had a problem. Priming the pumps, you need a dump valve below the pumps so you can let gravity push water through the pumps. Otherwise, it will sit there and churn water all day.

If you're doing a RIMS or HERMs type setup, the heat loss through copper (or stainless) will be significant when compared to silicone.

The only real negative I've found with a hard plumbed system in general is that it is difficult to expand or make a change. So each addition has to be carefully considered.

At the end of each brew I run PBW or oxyclean through the system and rinse. Before I brew I will cycle some starsan and then rinse the system. I think thats a good practice for any kind of plumbing though.

Personally I like the copper, but I would be lying if I said I hadn't considered going to stainless from time to time.

I decided to go silicone for the ease of connecting to multiple things. I know it's alot more money p/ft. but when you start adding up unions and valves at 5-7.00 that adds up too and it's not flexible. thanks for all the ideas though, it was a tough decision.