Barleywine tastes like rubbing alcohol - can it be infected but look fine?

Well, some of you may remember my thread from 3+ weeks ago, asking questions about my barleywine. Well, it's had time int he secondary and tonight was bottling night. I always steal a spoonfull after mixing in the sugar, before putting it in the bottles and, well, I saved myself some bottling time. SOMETHING went horribly horribly wrong.
About three and a half weeks ago, I transferred it to a secondary (after two weeks in a primary) and added the last hops to the batch. I tasted a bit, and it was spot on. I was really excited for this to mature and be done in a few more weeks/months! Well, tonight, despite the color being beautiful and the whole batch looking fine (and not smelling gross or anything), the beer tastes AWFUL. It closely resembles what I imagine rubbing alcohol would taste like, and BURNS going down. Needless to say, I didn't bottle it, and all but dumped it down the drain. I did put the lid back on the bucket (good Lord, I better run down and take that damn lid off...I did add the primin sugar....BOOM ) to see if you guys had any advice before I just trashed it. I know this is a kind of beer that needs to mature, mellow, and age, but, this can't be right. It tasted 100 x better a few weeks ago. Again, it's a beautiful dark amber. Very clear. No crap floating on the top of the batch...I don't get it.
Any thoughts? Very depressing as I've never had a batch go "bad" and I put a lot of time into this guy!

Could be infected, I would say let it keep aging. A barleywine is going to have a pretty strong alcohol flavor and is going to need a long time to mellow properly. If you've primed it, go ahead and bottle it. Let it mellow for a while and try it again.

I would bet it's fine. Sometimes you won't notice a hot alcohol flavor until the yeast is done it's business and drops out. I would let it age in the carboy for a while longer before bottling it.

Please do not dump!!

First of all..the fact that it tasted not bad after fermentation..for a barley wine to get infected you would have to try to infect it...the ABV is so high.

Also what was your fermentation temp? This can give you the rubbing alcohal taste if it fermented too high..above 75.

I would imagine with most barley wines..it is most likely 9% ABV or higher so one word ...age..

My barley wine is a very intense IIPA at 3 moths but does not begin to smooth until 6 months and has reached it's prime at 12 months..so bottle and leave it for minimum 2 to 3 months before you taste..minimum!!!!

J

Oh man. Well, I'll just say it...I dumped it. I know, I know. Just the fact that I had primed it, I didn't think I should let it sit any longer without bottling it, and I didn't want to go to the trouble of bottling, then likely dumping and cleaning all of those bottles when it turned out like crap. I did dump it before reading these responses...it's not like I just ignored your advice. Argh...now I feel even worse.
I just don't understand why it would taste really great (like the beginings of a nice sweet, thick BW) three weeks ago, and now it tasted like ass, I mean, like grain alcohol with no other flavors. No hop flavor, no malt flavor, just bitter and burn. If I had to place any other flavor, it might have been a tiny bit of iodine flavor/smell too. That may be a stretch though.

Also, I took another hydrometer reading, and it was the same reading as I got when I transferred it to the secondary three weeks ago, so nothing whacky there happened, if that's telling at all.

As far as the fermentation temp question, it is a constant 65 or so in my basement, so it wasn't too warm.

Big beer needs time to mellow.

Really big beer needs a lot of time to mellow. Like 6 - 12 months.

As punishment for a beer foul, you must begin self-flagellation by informing SWMBO about how much money in extract you just drained away.

I have had a similar thing happen. Two of my beers tasted great going in secondary and not so great at bottleing time. They both turned out fine. With that much alcohol there is not much of a chance of infection.

Just needed to let it mellow, man. Barleywines takes about a year to condition.

You had fusels, which could be caused by high fermentation temps. Just because your basement is at 65 degrees doesn't mean that's the temperature inside the fermentor. Yeast activity will drive temperature up by a good 5-10 degrees during fermentation.

EDIT: But thanks for taking the time to craft a thread asking for advice even though you're not going to listen to any of it.

PseudoChef said:

Just needed to let it mellow, man. Barleywines takes about a year to condition.

You had fusels, which could be caused by high fermentation temps. Just because your basement is at 65 degrees doesn't mean that's the temperature inside the fermentor. Yeast activity will drive temperature up by a good 5-10 degrees during fermentation.

EDIT: But thanks for taking the time to craft a thread asking for advice even though you're not going to listen to any of it.

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As I mentioned, I wrote the thread asking for advice, then realized I had a bomb waiting in the basement since I just closed up the primed bucket. So, I made a hasty decision of dumping it since it had zero redeeming flavor. At the time that outweighed the thought of wasting time bottling, and likely time dumping and scrubbing all of the bottles again when it still tasted like crap a few months later. Obviously I made the wrong choice, and I feel stupid about it, but I can't change it now. I was hoping this thread could still help me learn for the future, despite my fail.

I did the 999 barleywine a couple months ago and let it sit in the primary for about a month or so before even tasting it. I controlled the fermentation temps at around 62 ambient (Had a couple batches going so didn't want to attach the temp probe to just one). It also had really harsh alcohol flavors, but I think that is due to it being about 12% alcohol and really will need to age out for a long time.

Also you could have just put your airlock back on your primary bucket to let the priming sugar ferment, then leave it in a carboy for a few months, then bottle it.

You didn't really have a bomb in the basement. 4-5 ounces of priming sugar isn't going to create enough pressure to explode a closed bottling bucket.

ezatnova said:

As I mentioned, I wrote the thread asking for advice, then realized I had a bomb waiting in the basement since I just closed up the primed bucket. So, I made a hasty decision of dumping it since it had zero redeeming flavor. At the time that outweighed the thought of wasting time bottling, and likely time dumping and scrubbing all of the bottles again when it still tasted like crap a few months later. Obviously I made the wrong choice, and I feel stupid about it, but I can't change it now. I was hoping this thread could still help me learn for the future, despite my fail.

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Next time just put an air lock on it, even if you had not bottled it you could have just let it ferment out the priming sugar. I wont restate what others have said but I think you have learned your lesson the hard way.

I'm with you. Until you dump a batch then cry for a month,month it's easy to think it's bad. I dumped a batch *ducks to avoid flying bottles* of Ed's Haus Pale Ale that tasted like Mold. It may have never came around, but I wasn't waiting for the bottles for anything, it would have taken no work to just leave them and try in another 3-4 months. The whole batch tasted fine at bottling, but then turned while in the bottles. It was consistent over the 6 I tried at different time intervals before dumping. But who knows, that was two months ago, it could have been wonderful by now. For now on I'll just keep trying it at month intervals untill it's gone or good.

ezatnova said:

I was hoping this thread could still help me learn for the future, despite my fail.

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Well the only thing you have to learn is patience....You're not making coolaid..and the bigger the beer, the longer it takes to mellow. That's all that was wrong with your beer...It tasted like rubbing alcohol because it was a HUGE beer and it was going to taste like crap for months...and then one day, like magic, all of the roughness was going to be gone...and you were going to have a wonderfully mellow big beer....

Did you not grasp the concept of what you were making when you were brewing a Barleywine? Did you not read articles, recipes or even threads on the subject? They all talk about the fact that it takes a long time for Berleyines to come into their own. Even the northernbrewer kits for it tell you that you have to wait on this beer...6 -8 months or more in the bottles AFTER fermentation and bulk aging...

It's not called a Barleywine for nothing...

Had you even had patience when you posted the thread and listened to the advice you would have gotten (and did get to not dump your beer) we wouldn't be b#$@slapping you....

Had you even looked a round a bit MAYBE you would have come upon this thread...https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

And that blog is about NORMAL beers...Not something like a Barely wine or even a tripel that have a long normal period of conditioning to begin with...

It's simple...the bigger the beer, the bigger time you need for it to mellow.

Now go in the corner and say 12 Hail Mary's for committing the sin of alcohol abuse.





AND don't do it again.

How does a bottling bucket become a bomb? I'm so lost.

carnevoodoo said:

How does a bottling bucket become a bomb? I'm so lost.

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I had added the priming sugar, so I was picturing 5 gallons of brew all getting carbonated and not liking the restriction of the closed lid. False alarm, I suppose. I thought of putting the air-lock lid back on instead, as some have suggested here, but for whatever reason I figured that once a batch was primed, that was my shot...then or never....to bottle it. I didn't think it could be REprimed again sometime in the future.

So, if we could turn back time.... would you guys recommend that, upon noting that it tasted like ass, I let it sit in the bucket for another month or three, or bottleit and let it sit in there to age? The difference being, in the bucket it would still have the finishing hops mixed in, and a small yeast sediment layer, etc.

The thing that baffles me that I still can not grasp is how, three weeks ago, when the hydrometer confirmed fermentation was done, it tasted awesome (all the alcohol was there, yet it didn't taste like crap...it just tasted like a young BW), but then tasting it last night, it was Godawful. What chemically/structurally changed for the worse in that short time, that would then turn around again and get better in the future?

I am really tempted to order another BW kit as my next adventure (maybe a minimash this time rather than extract). I have my eyes on the AHB American BW kit. I will be VERY curious to see if this same thing happens this time around. I shall not dump it, regardless, this time though.

Alcohol abuse! Alcohol abuse!

ezatnova said:

The thing that baffles me that I still can not grasp is how, three weeks ago, when the hydrometer confirmed fermentation was done, it tasted awesome (all the alcohol was there, yet it didn't taste like crap...it just tasted like a young BW), but then tasting it last night, it was Godawful. What chemically/structurally changed for the worse in that short time, that would then turn around again and get better in the future?

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Every beer I have ever made changes flavors as it ages (not always for the better). Some perceived off flavors doesn't mean it's ruined. My barleywine tasted good a month in, after 6 weeks when I racked to secondary the alcohol bite was intense, something that was not there 2 weeks prior. You dumped it way to soon.

ezatnova said:

I had added the priming sugar, so I was picturing 5 gallons of brew all getting carbonated and not liking the restriction of the closed lid. False alarm, I suppose.

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Very much a false alarm. It takes your bottles 3 weeks to carbonate, right? with the amount of sugar you add, and the time it takes for the process to begin, you've got time.

Nobody will ever be able to tell you why or how things changed from a few weeks ago. The fact is that a barley wine is a pretty complex beer, and if you're going to be impatient and jump to conclusions, maybe you should consider something smaller while you get your practices in better order.

ezatnova said:

The thing that baffles me that I still can not grasp is how, three weeks ago, when the hydrometer confirmed fermentation was done, it tasted awesome (all the alcohol was there, yet it didn't taste like crap...it just tasted like a young BW), but then tasting it last night, it was Godawful. What chemically/structurally changed for the worse in that short time, that would then turn around again and get better in the future?

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You have been focused on the wrong aspect of your experience through. The unexpected thing to you should have been that you were able to taste it any point before 6 months without gagging. What I bet happened when it tasted good to you was that it was not quite done fermenting so there were some residual sugar to mix and mask that hot alcohol flavor.

It happens with every one of my big beers. At some point they taste fine, at a later point they taste like alcohol with an alcohol back, then the magic truly occurs and they start to come together until they taste fantastic. One thing is for sure they always go through stages where they taste ike crap. Even fusels from high temp fermentation (what most often lead to "hot alcohol" tastes) tend to condition out.

You, my friend, have made the biggest mistake possible for a young brewer. Bar none.

dontman said:

You have been focused on the wrong aspect of your experience through. The unexpected thing to you should have been that you were able to taste it any point before 6 months without gagging. What I bet happened when it tasted good to you was that it was not quite done fermenting so there were some residual sugar to mix and mask that hot alcohol flavor.

It happens with every one of my big beers. At some point they taste fine, at a later point they taste like alcohol with an alcohol back, then the magic truly occurs and they start to come together until they taste fantastic. One thing is for sure they always go through stages where they taste ike crap. Even fusels from high temp fermentation (what most often lead to "hot alcohol" tastes) tend to condition out.

You, my friend, have made the biggest mistake possible for a young brewer. Bar none.

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Well, I want to make sure to get some consensus for next time around. After such a time period where I was (almost a month in the secondary after two weeks in the primary), should I look to bottle it and let it sit, or not bottle it and keep it in the secondary for more time, until the taste comes around some? Or, doesn't it matter?

PS - I updated my signature.

ezatnova said:

Well, I want to make sure to get some consensus for next time around. After such a time period where I was (almost a month in the secondary after two weeks in the primary), should I look to bottle it and let it sit, or not bottle it and keep it in the secondary for more time, until the taste comes around some? Or, doesn't it matter?

PS - I updated my signature.

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Next time you make a "big" beer, leave it in the primary a month, secondary it for a couple of month's and don't taste it! Nice sig update.

First things first, I advocate the idea of "taste but don't judge" your beers til they have been at least 3 weeks in the bottle...That means you see it through the entire process...even if the beer was moldy on top yet isn't sour of the taste makes you want to vomit...NOT if it tastes "funny," or "funky" or "alcoholy," or "yeasty" or any number of ways because of the randomness of yeast, green beer can taste any number of ways that are unpleasant until the CO2 produced during bottle conditioning is re-absorbed back into the solution and begins to further scrub the beer and other things just mellow out naturally...

The only beer I wouldn't bottle would be sour (unless I got a sour beer expert from a club or shop to taste it and tell me if it was worth bottling, if it was going to be a "good" kinda sour) OR if I couldn't smell the airlock without wanting to vomit...meaning autloyzed or seriously infected beers (which are rare) anything else I would give the yeasties a chance to do their thing.

Even as much as leaving it in the bottles for 6 or more months. Like I mentioned in the never dump your beer thread, I posted above.

As it is I only taste my beers when I take my OG sample prior to yeast pitching, again 1 month later @ bottle time, and at approximately 2.5 weeks, after chilling it for 2 days....so more like 18 days in the bottle....and I don't draw ANY conclusions on the beer....If they aren't ready I leave them alone for another couple of weeks...if they still arent ready I ignore them for a month or more, trying one every now and then until it gets to where I like it OR I know that I've done everything and it's a lost cause. but that hasn't happened to me yet.

They've all mellowed with time...Including one I racked under a layer of mold...

In terms of a barley wine here's what I'm going to do when I brew one over Christmas Break...

1) Leave it in Primary for 1 month to 6 weeks...

2) Rack to Secondary and leave it for another 3-5 months to bulk age/condition

3) Bottle it and ignore it til it's been in the bottles an equal number of months as it was in primary and secondary...trying a bottle when it has been 8 months from yeast pitching...

4)Begin regularly tasting them around the 10- 11 month mark, with the goal being to serve and gift it for the following Christmas...


I'll taste it at each phase (raching and bottling) But I won't assume anything until the beers sat for a year.

It is just too big of a beer to think that it isn't going to taste funky for the majority of the period...


Remember, the yeasts know a hellova lot more about brewing than we do...they've been doing it for several thousand years, most of it on their own before we ever discovered that we could get high off it...SO we as the brewer just has to build them a nice clean office to work in, with plenty of tasty food....and just let them do what they do best.

ezatnova said:

Well, I want to make sure to get some consensus for next time around. After such a time period where I was (almost a month in the secondary after two weeks in the primary), should I look to bottle it and let it sit, or not bottle it and keep it in the secondary for more time, until the taste comes around some? Or, doesn't it matter?

PS - I updated my signature.

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Yea, for a BW 1 month in primary, 2 (maybe 1 personally I'm fine with 1 month) month in Secondary and conditioning in bottle for 2-6 months before you taste it.

I'll let you in on a secret that seems to go against a lot of people on this site. Ready? I don't like the taste of my beer until it is ready. I rarely try the beer from the Hydrometer tube and when I have I can't remember saying mmm, that's delicious.

Maybe just before priming I will take a sip to make sure the sugar content is correct, ie fully fermented, but I think it tastes bad when I do it.

That Honey Ale in my signature tasted like a swig from a rubbing alcohol bottle right before priming. I just tried the first one this past Saturday (3 1/2 weeks in bottle) Really good, somewhat green beer. I won't try another for 2 more weeks and I know it will be perfect.

As a noob one of the things I see as difficult on-line is getting across the idea that whether what you taste as "bad" is really ruined. I think in a situation where you are going to dump it either in spite of or in the absence of advice to the contrary you should at least bottle a six pack and dump the rest. That way when it tastes like ass in 6 months you know you got it right. (Or not )

Revvy said:

First things first, I advocate the idea of "taste but don't judge" your beers til they have been at least 3 weeks in the bottle...That means you see it through the entire process...even if the beer was moldy on top yet isn't sour of the taste makes you want to vomit...NOT if it tastes "funny," or "funky" or "alcoholy," or "yeasty" ...

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Thanks for the nice writeup. Today has been a really crap day...it's been so depressing reliving dumping that gd bucket into the sink...1000 times in my head. I guess this was the ultimate live-and-learn lesson for brewing. I suppose it came as sort of a backfire that, of the other 7 batches of beer I've ever brewed, they've all tasted anywhere from "good" to "wow" along the brewing process, whether at pitch, right after primary fermentation, or at bottling time. That gave me a sense of false expectations, I guess, that things should taste at least "alright" the whole way through. I've made a pretty wide variety of stuff too...from pumpkin to an IPA to an imperial stout, and again, they've all been tasty the whole way through.

Well, once the heart ache stops and I muster up the courage to order another BW kit, I'll wait this one out for sure. If it comes out ok, it shall be named "Big Dollar Barleywine" due to the fact that it will have cost me friggin $130 as a result of dumping this first one.