Sours Newb

So Ive never brewed a sour before and Id like to try out a few mini batches and see if I find something I like. I was hoping to get some direction on some good threads and info on the process, times, ingredients, recipes, and basically everything else I should know about this style loved by those who walk on the wild side(pun intended)...

Thanks guys... keep it funky!!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/easy-way-make-sour-beers-1-gal-wort-dregs-189748/

This is probably the best way to get started, by doing small 1 gallon batches and pitching dregs of commercial beers, or sour blends if you like. This is how I got started and got solid results. One thing I will say is just pitch the dregs of one type of beer, you can pitch multiple bottles of it but I did one that had ~8 different dregs in it and the flavors are kind of all over the place.

I have a 4 pack of DFH Festina Peche. Im assuming the dregs from this will work? It says they use a lactic culture, otherwise I dont have much access to a variety of sours.

you can buy sour yeasts at a homebrew store or online.

Not sure what the craft beer stores are in the Key but if you ever make the long drive up toward Miami there is a Total Wine. They usually have a few sours on hand if you're looking for something to try or to play with the dregs. You could also check out any of the places listed on this link http://miami.cbslocal.com/top-lists/dave-game/.

I haven't had any experience with DFH Festina Peche so I can't tell you if they have live bugs or not. But there are pleanty out there that do. The Mad Fermentationist has a list on his blog of beers with active yeast, brett & bugs. He is a great resource for all things funky too.

Good luck!

Thanks a ton. I happen to be going up to Miami tomorrow so this is perfect timing.

I'm not getting any listings when I open the link.

Hmm, it works when I click it. But here are the stores the article list. Hope this gets to you before you leave.

Best Craft Beer Stores In South Florida
June 14, 2012 9:00 AM

Stop and Shop
2 Locations 5500 Ponce De Leon Blvd 4900 S. LeJeune Rd
Coral Gables, Fl. 33146
(305) 668-4642
http://www.facebook.com/StopNShopUM

Sunset Corners Wine and Liquors
8701 SW 72nd St
Miami, FL 33173
(305) 271-8492
http://www.sunsetcorners.com

Whole Foods Market
6701 Red Rd 11701 S Dixie Hwy Miami, FL 33156
Coral Gables, FL 33143, 11701 S Dixie Hwy Miami, FL 33156
(305) 421-9421
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com

Yo Beer Guys
Virtual Store
Miami, Fl
(877) Yo-Beer-Guys
http://www.yobeerguys.com

Total Wine and More
Arena Shops 14750 Biscayne Boulevard
North Miami, FL 33181
(305) 354-3270
http://www.totalwine.com

There are a few Total Wine stores in the area, you can look them up on their website.

Awesome... I'm about to hit the road so it wasn't too late. Thanks!!

So I went to the Total Wine and wow!!! It was a sensory overload for the first 10 minutes in the craft beer isle staring at about 300 different beers.I felt like a 5 year old in Toys R Us. Though our selection down here isnt horrible, their craft section was absolutely mind blowing. Back to the point, these are the sours I was able to get, im not sure which have live bugs left so any advice is appreciated.....

That bottle of Petrus should have live bugs in it. I believe the rodenbach and monk's cafe are both pasteurized.

I successfully pulled cultures from several bottles of Petrus. The aged pale ale is one of my favorites!

Nice selection! You'll also be able to get some bugs from that Jolly Pumpkin and Monk's Cafe. http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

That's interesting, not that he knows everything, but the employee I had helping me didn't think I would be able to get anything from the Petrus or the Monks Cafe from looking at them. Luckily I have to go back up in a week so I'm gonna grab some more of each of these to get more dregs. They also had a few varieties of St Somewhere which I read may have some Brett in it still. I can't thank you enough for the advice on going to this place.

So when would I pitch these cultures on a batch? After fermentation? Before? Do I need a regular ale yeast or can I just use these cultured dregs? Do I need to introduce any lacto first, or do they all go in at the same time and just work on their own timelines? Just trying to make sure I follow the right procedure, I appreciate the help.

Rob_B said:

Nice selection! You'll also be able to get some bugs from that Jolly Pumpkin and Monk's Cafe. http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/06/harvesting-sour-beer-bottle-dregs.html

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Didn't even realize that was a bottle of JP. Impossible to get in western Pennsylvania. You probably won't even want to waste your time with it and should send it to me.

I've never tried to culture the dregs from a Monks Cafe. I'll have to grab a bottle and see if I can get something going.

Good info. Thanks.

I've heard tons of great reviews but had never seen it until yesterday. If I drink the beers and recap them to save the dregs, what temp should I store them at?

I usually dump the dregs either right in to a starter flask with fresh wort, or in to a sanitized/sterilized mason jar. If I'm going the mason jar route, I just put it back in my beer fridge at 40F.

There's an interview on the Brewing Network that takes about storing Brett dregs/slurry at room temp. Maybe someone else can chime in with experience on that subject. My guess would be that since there is sacc and lacto/pedio (probably) in the mix, you'd want to keep it cooler unless you're going to get a starter going immediately.

I've never tried to use the dregs from Monk's Cafe either. Personally it's an ok beer but not worth the premium to me with all the other great sours out there. I was skeptical too since I didn't see much in the way of sediment in my last bottle of it.

I would also store it at refridgeration temps just to be on the safe side. The starter is a great idea if you have the time just to make sure they are viable.

KeyWestBrewing said:

So when would I pitch these cultures on a batch? After fermentation? Before? Do I need a regular ale yeast or can I just use these cultured dregs? Do I need to introduce any lacto first, or do they all go in at the same time and just work on their own timelines? Just trying to make sure I follow the right procedure, I appreciate the help.

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I like to do primary with a sach strain first then add the bacteria afterwards. It looks like some go with a nice starter of the dregs and pitch that as a primary fermentation so that may be fun to play with too. It really just depends what characteristics you are looking for from the final product. If you are looking for a good Brett character then you may want to add just Brett after your primary with sach and let it go for a while then add the bacteria. This will give it a chance to develope before your lacto and pedio start eating things up.

The ph wont be too low for it at that point? How does that differ from letting the lacto get a 48 hour head start like ive read on other threads?

Not sure about ph and all of the more technical aspects of it right off hand. But as I mentioned it depends what style you're going for. A Berliner Weisse you would put the lacto in for a few days before your yeast as this is a very lacto forward style. I currently have a Berliner that I let the Lacto go for 5 days then US-05 for about 10 days and it's been sitting with some Brett C and will continue to do so until I decide to bottle it. As for some of the other styles like Flander's Red or Brown you could pitch everything all at once or use your yeast first then add your bacteria. A lambic you would just pitch your lambic blend and let it ride. If you want something with Brett funk and not any sourness you would use a Belgian yeast strain and finish with Brett. There are so many different ways to introduce wild yeast and bacteria to your beer.

Rob_B said:

Not sure about ph and all of the more technical aspects of it right off hand. But as I mentioned it depends what style you're going for. A Berliner Weisse you would put the lacto in for a few days before your yeast as this is a very lacto forward style. I currently have a Berliner that I let the Lacto go for 5 days then US-05 for about 10 days and it's been sitting with some Brett C and will continue to do so until I decide to bottle it. As for some of the other styles like Flander's Red or Brown you could pitch everything all at once or use your yeast first then add your bacteria. A lambic you would just pitch your lambic blend and let it ride. If you want something with Brett funk and not any sourness you would use a Belgian yeast strain and finish with Brett. There are so many different ways to introduce wild yeast and bacteria to your beer.

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I'm starting to notice that. I think im going to go for a Berliner Weiss and use some grain to get the lacto going. Then pitch the dregs starter and some mangoes after I follow the lacto with some US05.

So Im officially starting my Berliner today. I made a 1.030 1L starter with a handful of grain pitched in it and Im letting the growler sit in my croc pot filled with water at about 110. After 2-3 days of the starter doing its thing Im going to pitch the lacto starter in my mash and sourmash for another 2 days or so. Assuming that all goes well I'll mashout and split the batch in half. Hopping with a little Citra, using US-05, and aging on some mangoes for one part. And Cascade, US-05, and aging on rhubarb for the other half. This is the only way I have of souring something without having to get new equipment or risking contaminating my setup and the fastest way of cranking out a sour. I understand the benefits and how golden an ingredient time is in making a sour. So once I can make some space for 3-5 smaller fermenters Im going to do a few varieties I can give the appropriate time on. Infecting with the different dregs Ive been collecting. This way I can notice the differences in each, finding out which I like best and having the opportunity to blend as I please. Im posting the recipes below.... any feedback is appreciated and encouraged


Size 6 gallons split into two 3 gallon batches
OG 1.040
FG however low it gets, not sure what to expect there
IBU 7.7/6.9
Mashed @ 150 for 60 mins prior to sour mash

5 # 2 Row
2 # Flaked Wheat
1# Cane sugar.....added during boil to help dry the beer out. I can take that out if its not a good idea.
1 oz Citra added @ 5 mins for part one....and 1 oz Cascade @ 10 min for part 2
8 # Fresh mangoes cut into chunks and added to seconary on part one
3-4# rhubarb chunks added to secondary for part 2

If you see a copy of "brewing with wheat" laying around the Berliner recipe in there is solid. Ive won several medals with it. 50% Pilsen 50% wheat. No boil, small decotion with some hops. Pitch a vial of lacto and give it 2 day head start at 90° then cool and pitch us05. Clean lactic sourness. Ready in less than a month.

cyberwollf said:

If you see a copy of "brewing with wheat" laying around the Berliner recipe in there is solid. Ive won several medals with it. 50% Pilsen 50% wheat. No boil, small decotion with some hops. Pitch a vial of lacto and give it 2 day head start at 90° then cool and pitch us05. Clean lactic sourness. Ready in less than a month.

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Hey man how was the Keys? Any of the info I give you help? I can try and track down the book but that might be hard without ordering it online. I have everything already ordered for my next 3 batches and the LHBS doesn't have any Pilsen malt or lacto so I'm working with extra 2 row and grain husks for lacto on this as a side project. I also can't find any pure lacto only a Brett lacto mix. I'm trying to hold off on a no boil Berliner until I have separate gear for sours though the recipe you mentioned sounds kick ass.

Keys were good. We had my 1 year old with us, so I'd imagine it would be a completly different experience with out bringing a kid

Saw this when I checked out my starter today. Smell reminds me of Monks Cafe Flemmish Red but less sour. I was originally planning on starting the sour mash tomorrow but am wondering if I should give the lacto starter a few more days to sour. Anyone have any advice or thoughts?

Well after killing my first lacto starter by accident it took me a while to get the ball rolling on this project. But now all is looking good. I partigyled the 2nd runnings from my IPA and sour worted for 4 days @ 105-115f and had a nice clean sour smelling wort. Boiled everything for about 45 mins to drive off any DMS and added 2 oz of cascade with 5 mins left. Then after letting it ferment for 2 weeks(really finished after 3 days or so) I racked it into 3#s of frozen rhubarb. Should be ready to bottle in 5-7 days. As of now it smells really good, I'm excited to see how it turns out.

Key west, that is an incredibly cool looking mash!

Thanks. Pitched a starter I made from grain husk and the lacto went crazy. It was fun to look at.

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bbarnumboy said:

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Just finished bottling this batch....about 4gallons in all. The taste is great. Not overly sour but very clean and noticeable. It's also got a great tartness and rhubarb flavor with a touch of breadiness in the finish. I can't wait till its carbed to get some more tasting notes from others.

KeyWestBrewing said:

J I can't wait till its carbed to get some more tasting notes from others.

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I'll volunteer.

If I didn't have a brewclub meeting today there's a good chance I'd need to recruit some tasters lol

Second thought....PM me your info if your interested in trading a 4 pack for some of your sours.

Yeah I'm in too haha

Any update on how this turned out? I'm very curious about the Rhubarb.

It came out pretty good. It's not extremely sour but its definitely got a real nice tartness to it from the rhubarb. The sourness it does have is a good clean sour with a little funk, the good kind. And there's also a nice bready flavor to it. All in all I'd call it a success.

jonthebrewer said:

Any update on how this turned out? I'm very curious about the Rhubarb.

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If you PM me your info I'd be down to set up a trade for some of your stuff.

I'd love to but will have to pass I'm just getting into the sours and have just made my first batch. I think it'd be more stealing on my part than trading.