Little confused on priming

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silverbullet07

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Everyone seems to go with 1oz corn suger per gallon and when I look up the sugar rate on a priming calculator, it shows different co2 for different style beers.


I want to prime a German dunkelweizen and according to the chart I want between 3.3 – 4.5 volumes of co2.

Is the temperture at bottling what the beer temperture is at bottling or what the temperture will be during conditioning?

So if my German Wheat beer need 4 volumes co2 @ 68F it shows 8.4 oz sugar.

Everyone seems that is to much that is why I'm confused.:confused:
 
The temp is what your beer temp is at the time of bottling. 3.5 is the most I would carb it to. 4.5 is going probably going to explode the bottles.
 
Yes, it's the temperature of your beer at bottling time. The current temperature affects the CO2 volume in solution.

I've had the best results following northern brewer's online priming calculator.
 
I disagree. If you ferment at 68 and then crash cool to 32 before bottling, I wouldn't be using 32 to calculate priming levels. It takes an extended period of time for gas to migrate back into solution with the minimal surface area in a fermenter. Gas comes out of solution very easily as temp rises but it isn't as quick or easy to get it dissolved back in.

It's the same reason why you can't just let your wort sit for a couple minutes and have it naturally saturate with oxygen. Its also the same reason you want to stick your brew in the fridge for a couple days before drinking (and that is with it being under pressure.)
 
I disagree. If you ferment at 68 and then crash cool to 32 before bottling, I wouldn't be using 32 to calculate priming levels.

Right. You want to use the temperature that the beer has been held at for a long period of time previous to priming.
 
I still believe it's the temperature at bottling time that matters, not the temperature that the beer will be conditioned at which was the OP's orignal question.

Here's my process: After fermentation is complete, I crash cool my beer for several days at about 36-40 degrees in order to drop any sediment out of suspension. On bottling day, I remove the beer from my fridge, and place it on my kitchen counter with a towel under the carboy. I then let the beer warm up to about room temperature and bottle. I base my priming sugar calculation on the current temperature, which is now at or close to room temperature using northern brewer's calcuator, http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/.

Running your priming sugar calculations at the temperature you crash cool at is not practical if you're bottling in your home as the beer will warm up fairly quickly during the process. This will lead to inconsitent carbontation levels since CO2 is released as the liquid warms up, as mentioned by the other posters.
 
All beer has a residual amount of CO2 in suspension and it directly correlates to the temperature of the fermentation. An ale fermented at 65 will have a different amount then a lager fermented at 50.

The priming sugar calculation takes into account the fermentation temperature, not the temperature at the time if bottling. If you we're to take the two beers and allow to warm to the same temp at bottling and used the same calculation then one beer would be over carbonated and one would be less because they fermented at different temperatures.
 
I wouldnt try to bottle with that much sugar, you will blow...to get that high of a pressure you'd probably have to keg.

5oz per 5 gallons already is on the high side IMO....i wouldnt go much beyond that if at all.
 
The priming sugar calculation takes into account the fermentation temperature, not the temperature at the time if bottling.

I guess that depends on the source of your priming sugar calculation. I've used several and I've had the best results using the NB calculator which asks for the current temperature of the beer as one of its inputs, not the fermentation temperature of the beer. The process I outlined above has worked well for me, but I'm sure there are other ways to get results. If I didn't crash cool, I'd probably go off the fermentation temperature for ales. Lagers might be a little trickier as they are typically lagered which would have similar affects to crash cooling. In that case, I'd probably warm the beer up to room temperature and go off the current temperature for bottling.

Also, a good debate on the topic here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/effects-cold-crashing-priming-sugar-needs-134347/.

:mug:
 
It's NOT the temperature at bottling. It's "fermentation temperature" or the highest temperature the beer reached during or after fermentation.

Here's why- cold liquids "hold" onto co2 quite well. Co2 is produced during fermentation, but not after fermentation. Once the beer is done, no new co2 is being produced.

Say you ferment a beer at 65 degrees, then let it sit at room temperature of 74 degrees since your fermentation chamber was full. Then, put it in the kegerator to crash cool.

You should use 74 degrees, as the co2 would off-gas more at 74 degrees. And that is the reason the calculators use the temperature- they want to guestimate the probable amount of residual co2 already in the beer.

I hate those priming calculators, by the way! They do help you prime "to style". But in this case, you could easily have bottle bombs and most bottles probably would be able to handle 4+ volumes of co2. Plus, when you open that bottle, even if it didn't blow up, it would gush and foam something awful. And there is the confusion, as noted above, about what temperature to use!

I always recommend using .75-1 ounce of priming sugar, by weight, per gallon of finished beer. .75 ounce for a lower carbed beer (say, a stout), and 1 ounce for more highly carbed beers like pale ales and German style beers. They may not be precisely "to style", but bottled beer usually isn't! Most bottled beers are 2.3-2.6 volumes of co2, and that is what we are used to.
 
Thanks for the input. I will lean to my bottling temperture. I am fermenting at 64F and will bottle at 68F-70F so not much difference in sugar.

I have been researching the amount of co2 volume for a german wheat. It seems that the issue with the volume at 3.5 or 4 has more to do with the type of bottle we have. If we purchase the standard 12oz bottle it may only hold 3-3.5 but if we have the more heavier bottles like a good german 1/2 l weizen bottle it will hold 3.5 - 4. ( Note to self...drink more weizen and save bottles).

I have a couple of cases of the old budwiser bottle. The ones in the early 80's, probaby the returnables. They are heavier bottles that may take the 3.5 with no issues. What do you think?

Thanks again.
 
Do you want to risk bottle bombs because they "may" take that much pressure?
They also may explode on you, worst case when you're trying to open them in which case you may find yourself in the ER :(

If you don't KNOW, why risk it?
 
Do you want to risk bottle bombs because they "may" take that much pressure?
They also may explode on you, worst case when you're trying to open them in which case you may find yourself in the ER :(

If you don't KNOW, why risk it?

From my reading they say they can. They are a lot heavier glass then today. The German weizen bottle contains that now so we know they will.
 
Playing devil's advocate here: If you were 100% about that would you have posted and asked what everybody thought?

Honestly not trying to be an ass, but I personally wouldn't risk it with 30 year old bottles.
But it's not my beer and opinions in this hobby are just about as varied as you can imagine.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

And in case anybody is voting, add +1 to the "highest temperature the beer reached during or after fermentation" for inputting into the calculators. This one is a matter of science, not opinion.
 
From my reading they say they can. They are a lot heavier glass then today. The German weizen bottle contains that now so we know they will.

Don't forget that 3+ volumes of c02 will cause the beer to gush and foam when opened, and so about 90% of your glass will be foam when you try to pour it!
 
Yooper said:
It's NOT the temperature at bottling. It's "fermentation temperature" or the highest temperature the beer reached during or after fermentation.

Here's why- cold liquids "hold" onto co2 quite well. Co2 is produced during fermentation, but not after fermentation. Once the beer is done, no new co2 is being produced.

Say you ferment a beer at 65 degrees, then let it sit at room temperature of 74 degrees since your fermentation chamber was full. Then, put it in the kegerator to crash cool.

You should use 74 degrees, as the co2 would off-gas more at 74 degrees. And that is the reason the calculators use the temperature- they want to guestimate the probable amount of residual co2 already in the beer.

I hate those priming calculators, by the way! They do help you prime "to style". But in this case, you could easily have bottle bombs and most bottles probably would be able to handle 4+ volumes of co2. Plus, when you open that bottle, even if it didn't blow up, it would gush and foam something awful. And there is the confusion, as noted above, about what temperature to use!

I always recommend using .75-1 ounce of priming sugar, by weight, per gallon of finished beer. .75 ounce for a lower carbed beer (say, a stout), and 1 ounce for more highly carbed beers like pale ales and German style beers. They may not be precisely "to style", but bottled beer usually isn't! Most bottled beers are 2.3-2.6 volumes of co2, and that is what we are used to.

Exactly!
 
Don't forget that 3+ volumes of c02 will cause the beer to gush and foam when opened, and so about 90% of your glass will be foam when you try to pour it!

I was just hoping for that nice large head like I was use to in Germany. You don't see that in the US.

Would 2.5 - 3 give me a nice head?
 
A higher carb level doesn't translate 100% to a better head on the beer. There are many factors involved so if that is the heart of your desire (a better head on the beer) then carb level shouldn't be your main focus.
 
Yes, 2.5 - 3 volumes should be plenty. I've been drinking an American Wheat that I brewed over summer and bottled to about 2.6 vols of CO2. It's pretty darn carbonated. Plus, the wheat in the beer really helps with head retention and head formation. You're not going to have an issue.
 
Yes, 2.5 - 3 volumes should be plenty. I've been drinking an American Wheat that I brewed over summer and bottled to about 2.6 vols of CO2. It's pretty darn carbonated. Plus, the wheat in the beer really helps with head retention and head formation. You're not going to have an issue.

Great! Thanks.
 
A higher carb level doesn't translate 100% to a better head on the beer. There are many factors involved so if that is the heart of your desire (a better head on the beer) then carb level shouldn't be your main focus.

Awesome and Thanks for the information. That's good to know because that was what I was assuming caused it. :)
 
Awesome and Thanks for the information. That's good to know because that was what I was assuming caused it. :)

the carbonation creates the bubbles - ingredients in the beer hold those bubbles creating the head. Oil or soap residue will kill your head retention - non denatured proteins will tend to help.

I often add some oatmeal both for body and to increase the thickness of the head on my beers.
 
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