Steam Kettle

So...... I got my hands on a Groen PT-60 Steam Kettle. Groen PT series kettles are stationary, direct steam kettles. Groen PT series kettles require an outside steam source such as a boiler or steam generator. The steam enters the jacket through an inlet. The product in the kettle body absorbs the heat from the steam and returns the steam to the bottom of the kettle in the form of condensate. The condensate is the emptied into a drain or returned back to the boiler or steam generator. The temperature on the direct steam kettles is controlled by regulating the PSI of the steam coming into the jacket.

http://www.culinarydepotinc.com/p-6...dftrk=gdfV23516_a_7c1516_a_7c7339_a_7cPT_d_60


I plan on brewing 15 gallons at a time. I can push water through to help control temp during the process after cooking. The one problem is this, I need a way to generate steam to cook. I do not want to spend a too much money on a Boiler or a steam generator. Any ideas?


CJ

Good luck

I was hoping to go on a little more than luck.....

I don't mean to be a dick or anything; but you're looking at an $8,000+ dollar steam kettle and your worried about boiler costs?! I know steam is supposed to be awesome but you could build a serious system for that much dough.

LOL.... No worries. I got the kettle for $50 in perfect condition from a friend clearing out a warehouse that foreclosed. I don't want to drop a grand on a boiler or a steam generator. Perhaps I may have no other choice if I want this to work. I was hoping for some cheaper alternatives or a work around.

Maybe you should see if you can get enough cash out of that kettle to build an all electric RIMS system or something of that nature!

Not sure of the actual connection points on the kettle, but you could pump a heat transfer fluid through the jacket which is heated electrically. Oils or glycol could be used to circulate through the jacket and heat. Dowfrost is good to 250* and the HD is good to 325* so boiling with those is a possibility.

Looking at the cut sheet the relief valve could be removed and a tee added to allow the relief to remain just in case and an outlet point for the fluid at the top of the jacket. and the "condensate out" port used to pump into the jacket.
Starting 18 gallons strike water at 50* with 2 5500W heaters you could get to 170* in 30 minutes and 140* to a boil in 18 minutes IF you have no heat losses, so it seems reasonable.

You could deep fry the wings in the oil and make beer at the same time!!!

Electric Hot Oil Tank - eHOT

http://www.unifiedbrands.net/assets/docs/groen/groenwebspecs/DSK_160168D_0710_PT.pdf
http://www.unifiedbrands.net/assets/docs/groen/OperatorFT.pdf

I just recently came across a Groen DLT-60 that I picked up at a very affordable price.

I'm struggling with the same issue as you. Have you came to any conclusions? I am considering cutting off the jacket in order to use a burner

I was actually given the suggestion of rigging up a hot water heater and circulate anti-freeze to cook. seems like a little more than I'm wanting to get into though

Why would you cut up a ~$8000 steam kettle - sell it and use the money to build what you want!
I don't understand how a steam system on a homebrew scale would be more efficient or easier/cheaper. I know I have seen Yuri's work but if it is electric you are still limited to what your element can deliver long term, great for short term variations though.
Really all I am saying is you will spend a lot more money to builded and perfect a steam system than the use you will get out of it at a homebrew level.

mattd2 said:

Why would you cut up a ~$8000 steam kettle - sell it and use the money to build what you want!
I don't understand how a steam system on a homebrew scale would be more efficient or easier/cheaper. I know I have seen Yuri's work but if it is electric you are still limited to what your element can deliver long term, great for short term variations though.
Really all I am saying is you will spend a lot more money to builded and perfect a steam system than the use you will get out of it at a homebrew level.

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these aren't $8000 steam kettles. mine is over 20 years old and would require a steam generator. not very attractive to the average person. at this point I can probably either modify it to work for my needs our scrap it for the going rate of stainless

JUST_BREW_IT said:

these aren't $8000 steam kettles. mine is over 20 years old and would require a steam generator. not very attractive to the average person. at this point I can probably either modify it to work for my needs our scrap it for the going rate of stainless

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OK so $8000 when new. But what condition is it in? if it is good condition even at 20 years old I would expect more that 50% develuation, so a $4000 steam kettle. Yes the average person that doesn't have any means to produce the required steam is not really going to want to pay to much money for it... but a resurant/manufactuer that is already setup with this type of kettle will, especially if their one has just busted. I would slap it up on Ebay at least... say $2000 and see if there are any bites.
$2000 can buy you a fair bit of new SS brewkit, much better that battling along with the steam kettle

$2000 would be cool....but considering you only paid $50 for it, you might want to take that into account. Besides, those pie-in-the-sky Ebay listings stay active for years, since no one these days (not even businesses) can afford it. At $300-$400 you're still looking at a 600-800% profit margin....pretty sweet if you ask me!

Years ago I provided and installed the boiler for a brewer in NY that had three 100 gallon full jacket steam kettles. A steam kettle isn't circuited to use a fluid as a heating medium. All the data for sizing the boiler is on the kettle. Steam is usually figured by square feet and not so much using BTUs. Depending on the pressure at what the boiler is operating at, the steam produced will be superheated. Superheat is the temperature above the boiling point of a liquid at a given pressure. If you're set on buying a steam boiler for the kettle, it won't be one that's designed to heat a house. Here's the deal, it takes a lot of heat energy to change state of a liquid. The one pound water one degree = one BTU, doesn't apply at change of state....What you'll need to do is find out what pressure the kettle is designed for. Then the Sq.ft. steam needed to fill the jacket or the BTU needed to produce the steam. Then the boiling time at the operating pressure at the max liquid capacity. Be advised. A steam boiler requires maintenance and it needs to be installed properly. Depending on the boiler size and the town-city, etc. it's installed at, it may have to be inspected yearly by the Hartford insurance rep..... Sell the steam kettle. Buy a 50-60 gallon brew kettle from one of the vendors and get a 300-400K gas burner. You will be better off.

VladOfTrub said:

Depending on the pressure at what the boiler is operating at, the steam produced will be superheated. Superheat is the temperature above the boiling point of a liquid at a given pressure..

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That's not true. Superheating refers to heating the steam above this temperature, and is not good for transferring thermal energy.

StMarcos said:

That's not true. Superheating refers to heating the steam above this temperature, and is not good for transferring thermal energy.

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Would it not be good for transporting energy as in superheated steam would have to cool to saturated steam before it starts to condensate in the pipes.

I think the big point of Vlad's post was dealing with the fact it would be a costly exercise to build a effecient steam generater to power the kettle. Breweries use steam because it is an effecient way to produce heat in a central system and then transport it to different areas where it is needed. In homebrewing when you would be setting up you boiler next to the kettle I see no point other that "look what I did"

The safety release valve is set to release after 25 PSI. I would rather not cut anything up on it, so I can always get rid of it for several hundred if I need to. I really want to use steam, but realize buying a stream generator might be a bit much.

I am going to research on how to make a steam system that would serve the purpose, preferably Propane fueled so I can cook it outside. I will post how it all turns out.

That's not true. Superheating refers to heating the steam above this temperature, and is not good for transferring thermal energy.

I meant to say above the vaporization at a given pressure. Thanks. Sometimes I work with superheated water and blend the two in my brain pan.

Just a miss-communication... I think we both get it. Breweries I know of use 12-15psi non-superheated steam to transfer energy around. Can't see how this is really useful on a homebrew scale... maybe cooking up a large batch of polenta for adjunct. I'd sell it.

For a steam generator you could make a basic rims tube which is below the condensate connection. If you control the rims to 225*-250* or ~5-15 psi you should be able to get decent heating. As long as the rims connections are as large as the kettle 1/2" & 3/4" connections you should be able to allow steam to rise up into the kettle, transfer the heat to the mask/wort, condense, and drop back down to the rims. I'd create the rims tube and risers out of 2" to give you a decent volume of water and reduce right at the kettle connections. Don't create any traps or unpitched piping sections and you should get free drainage back to the rims with steam still being able to rise to the kettle. Don't fill the rims with water any higher that the lowest point on the kettle to keep the jacket from flooding. Keep the pressure release intact and utilize 150psi class piping and you should be able to safely create your steam.

Superheat is usually used to keep the steam "dry" in its travel to the equipment. Pressure drop through the piping will take the steam below its saturation temp and it sill start condensing within the piping and not allowing the steam to transfer all its energy once within the equipment.

I have a 150 gal. Pfaudler steam evaporating dish. I want to convert it to hot oil.
I am going to use it to evaporate sorghum syrup. I was hoping to get some advice in here. I would never consider selling it to get something easier to work with. I see posts in here where others are considering something similar for brewing beer. hopefully we can share ideas and help each other. Any information
would be appreciated.