Cider experiment

I started a cider about two weeks ago (OG = 1.07) and racked when cider was at 1.0. After racking, I added an additional 1lb of dark brown sugar, pitched a champagne yeast, 1TBSP of vanilla extract and let sit for about 3 days. There was very little action going on in the airlock. Today, I added 3tsp of yeast nutrient and the bubbling started like crazy! I have made several batches of cider in the past, but I am trying to drive the ABV% as high as I possibly can on this one. My goal was to maximize the yeast capability at around 15-16%. What do you think I can expect for both flavor and ABV on this batch?

And to add on to this: I will be force carbonating in a keg prior to bottling.

mcgray8 said:

I started a cider about two weeks ago (OG = 1.07) and racked when cider was at 1.0. After racking, I added an additional 1lb of dark brown sugar, pitched a champagne yeast, 1TBSP of vanilla extract and let sit for about 3 days. There was very little action going on in the airlock. Today, I added 3tsp of yeast nutrient and the bubbling started like crazy! I have made several batches of cider in the past, but I am trying to drive the ABV% as high as I possibly can on this one. My goal was to maximize the yeast capability at around 15-16%. What do you think I can expect for both flavor and ABV on this batch?

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Well... the best (and only) example of this I've tasted took over two months of feeding the yeast cans of apple juice concentrate. One can every few days. The creator went hog wild and added so much concentrate the final gravity went back up to 1.050 ... with 18% abv!

Very sweet, with almost no alcohol burn till it hit your gut.

Did u add yeast twice or was the primary feementation from wild yeast?

He used a champagne yeast. I think it was ec-1118, IIRC...

I used Red Star Dry Champagne Yeast during primary fermentation and then added an additional package during racking. I will be honest and say that my primary intention is to drive the ABV% north in order to make a more potent applejack. Any thoughts??

mcgray8 said:

I used Red Star Dry Champagne Yeast during primary fermentation and then added an additional package during racking. I will be honest and say that my primary intention is to drive the ABV% north in order to make a more potent applejack. Any thoughts??

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Never done applejack myself. You might want to chk one of those threads on the site, or start a new one!

I have read other peoples views on the safety of applejack in regards to methanol content, but at the same time have read different reports on how it is perfectly safe. I will only be freezing it one time. Any thoughts or concerns?

mcgray8 said:

I have read other peoples views on the safety of applejack in regards to methanol content, but at the same time have read different reports on how it is perfectly safe. I will only be freezing it one time. Any thoughts or concerns?

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From the discussions I've had, you should have no worries.

As long as the temps are outrageously low. The best you'll get is 20-24% IMHO.

MarkKF said:

As long as the temps are outrageously low. The best you'll get is 20-24% IMHO.

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Next question: I made a 5 gal batch of cider that I plan on carbing with my keg prior to bottling. I want it to be sweeter and around 6.5 to 7% abv. When I achieve the desired results, what can I do to stop fermentation prior to kegging? I am leary about adding any flavor changing preservatives.

Should I keg it first, then bottle, and end it with a good stove top pasteurization?

mcgray8 said:

Should I keg it first, then bottle, and end it with a good stove top pasteurization?

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No, pasturize, then keg. Safer. No bottle bombs!

Pasteurize, then keg? Not sure I follow. Wouldn't pasteurizing in a kettle on the stove cook off the alcohol?

Yeah, I would think so.

Pickled_Pepper said:

Pasteurize, then keg? Not sure I follow. Wouldn't pasteurizing in a kettle on the stove cook off the alcohol?

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Ethanol's boiling point is 173 degrees Fahrenheit. In theory, if you pasteurize at 160 degrees, it wouldn't boil off the alcohol. Don't quote me on it though

Pickled_Pepper said:

Wouldn't pasteurizing in a kettle on the stove cook off the alcohol?

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Some, but not a significant amount. It's just like boiling water, bringing it up to 212F doesn't mean you've cooked off all the water. It takes time. Here's a rough chart people use for cooking, an it's all dealing with higher temps. http://homecooking.about.com/library/archive/blalcohol12.htm

I'm not saying you will cook off all of the alcohol at 160ºF for 10-15 mins. But I don't think you will be able to evenly heat 5 gallons of hard cider on the stove top for 10 mins either. The bottom of the kettle will reach 180 or 190 while the top may only reach 150º.

You can see water steam in your kettle before reaching 212ºF. (Depending on ambient temps) Ethanol has a lower evaporation point than that of water, so if you are stirring the kettle to keep the temps consistent throughout...wouldn't you in theory...loose alcohol to evaporation? even a 15% loss would be significant in my opinion.

I'm not a scientist by any means, I'm just trying to figure out the pros and cons of stove top open kettle pasteurizing. To me, it would seem to be easier to add sorbate and sulfites instead of dumping my cider into a kettle on the stove.