Expresso stout suggestions

I am new to home brewing, I am about to try my first stout. I enjoy a strong coffee flavored stout. Can someone help me understand my best means to really pack in a presence of coffee? Any input is greatly appreciated.
Cheers!!

You can cold brew coffee and add it to the secondary but I personally like to use grains that give off strong coffee flavors such as black patent and carafa 2. I use 1/2 a pound of each in my steeping grains for all my stouts.

timrox1212, Thanks for the input. I will be using an extract. I am entertaining the idea of putting espresso beans into the boil. I am just questioning how long. I was thinking of going with 30 min. to start with and see how it comes out and adjust on the next batch. Although, I am not 100% sure this is the method I will take. This is why I posted this thread to get some input and ideas of different options. Any insight you can provide is greatly appreciated and helpful.

Do not boil the beans at all!! When you boil coffee beans it releases tannins and will creates bad off flavors. Cold brewing coffee is easy. Take 1 1/2 cup ground coffee and 4 cups water and combine them in a container. Set it in the fridge overnight and then strain through a coffee filter. Rack your beer ontop of this concentrated coffee.

Bfranklin007 said:

timrox1212, Thanks for the input. I will be using an extract. I am entertaining the idea of putting espresso beans into the boil. I am just questioning how long. I was thinking of going with 30 min. to start with and see how it comes out and adjust on the next batch. Although, I am not 100% sure this is the method I will take. This is why I posted this thread to get some input and ideas of different options. Any insight you can provide is greatly appreciated and helpful.

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My understanding is to not boil the coffee itself because you will extract Tanins making it really bitter. For pure flavor I've read you are best to cold brew like the previous poster mentioned.

However I have yet to actually brew with coffee myself but have been researching... I'm curious to see what others say.

Sounds good. Will this give me a strong coffee flavor? If not, what can I do to get the most out of that flavor?

Cold brew a big batch of strong concentrate then add to taste at bottling time. I've done this a few times for my coffee brown and the coffee flavor always comes out perfect.

timrox1212 said:

Do not boil the beans at all!! When you boil coffee beans it releases tannins and will creates bad off flavors. Cold brewing coffee is easy. Take 1 1/2 cup ground coffee and 4 cups water and combine them in a container. Set it in the fridge overnight and then strain through a coffee filter. Rack your beer ontop of this concentrated coffee.

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I was thinking instead of grinding it fine to put it in the chopper then cold brewing. Shouldn't make any difference right?

kerant said:

I was thinking instead of grinding it fine to put it in the chopper then cold brewing. Shouldn't make any difference right?

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Grind the beans up fine(espresso grind) when you cold brew them. Once your done cold brewing(I like to leave mine for 24 hours) filter the coffee off the grounds into another container. From there you can add to taste.

I can say definitely use a fine grind as you would for espresso. You may want to try and test out the taste. I was thinking of mixing 1/4 oz of coffee with 12 oz of a stout beer. If it was enough taste for me then I would assume I can brew the right amount of coffee and bottle with that. It may not make sense though but so far, it makes sense to me. Someone also suggested getting a commercial bottle of stout, cold brew a cup of coffee, get an eye dropper of sorts and just start with a couple of drops at a time until the coffee flavor is where I wanted it.

Hello said:

I can say definitely use a fine grind as you would for espresso. You may want to try and test out the taste. I was thinking of mixing 1/4 oz of coffee with 12 oz of a stout beer. If it was enough taste for me then I would assume I can brew the right amount of coffee and bottle with that. It may not make sense though but so far, it makes sense to me. Someone also suggested getting a commercial bottle of stout, cold brew a cup of coffee, get an eye dropper of sorts and just start with a couple of drops at a time until the coffee flavor is where I wanted it.

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Why not just cold brew a big batch of concentrate then add to taste at bottling/kegging? Its basically the same thing. As long as you add a little at a time, mix it in, then taste.. You'll get the flavor right where you want it every time. No measuring coffee necessary, no testing ratios or trying to brew the exact amount of coffee needed.

Use bustello coffee.
I went from using a charbucks xmas blend to bustello and my coffee stout is now one of my most sought after beers.

MikedAdams
Where can I get bustello coffee?

Bfranklin007 said:

MikedAdams
Where can I get bustello coffee?

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In the coffee isle at any grocery store.

timrox1212 said:

You can cold brew coffee and add it to the secondary but I personally like to use grains that give off strong coffee flavors such as black patent and carafa 2. I use 1/2 a pound of each in my steeping grains for all my stouts.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're cold brewing coffee, why couldn't you just add the grinds to the secondary like you would during dry hop? I've thought about doing this same style (as I love Stone Expresso IRS even over KBS), but played around with the idea of:

1) coursely grinding the beans and adding straight to the fermentor (~12-16 oz for an imperial eStout) or

2) Grinding the beans and adding to a sanitized finely meshed nylon hop sack

Jeffries55 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're cold brewing coffee, why couldn't you just add the grinds to the secondary like you would during dry hop? I've thought about doing this same style (as I love Stone Expresso IRS even over KBS), but played around with the idea of:

1) coursely grinding the beans and adding straight to the fermentor (~12-16 oz for an imperial eStout) or

2) Grinding the beans and adding to a sanitized finely meshed nylon hop sack

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If you add them to the fermenter you have to take a sample everyday to see how the coffee is coming along. If you cold brew a batch and add at bottling/kegging you can add to taste and get exactly the amount of coffee flavor your looking for.
Really the coffee can be brewed any way you'd like but cold brewing doesn't extract as much acidity and brings out more of the flavor of the bean IMO.

I brewed the Brewers Best Russian Imperial Stout extract kit early this year and had great results with adding brewed and cooled espresso to the secondary. I used Intelligentsia Black Cat coffee brewed with my home espresso machine. I just added it to the fermenter after the krausen fell. I want to say i added 1 cup (which is a lot of espresso), but i could check my notes. My wife still says that beer was her favorite homebrew. The coffee flavor was nicely balanced with the beer.

I have been brewing a coffee stout at least twice a year since 1995. My original method was to add the grounds in a mesh bag at flameout while it was cooling to pitching temperature. Since I switched to a plate chiller, I didn't want to leave the coffee in at that high a temperature for that amount of time. So, I switched to a cold brew system. I use a Toddy system now to cold brew concentrate a few days in advance. I can then experiment to get the profile I'm looking for. I took a 1mL syringe from the pet medicine stash and using 3oz samples of Guinness Foreign Export stout (which is very similar to my stout base), I added varying amounts until I got the flavor profile I was looking for. Once you have that, just divide by 0.0047 (roughly 3oz/640oz) and you'll have the amount of coffee to add to the 5 gallon batch. Or in my specific case, the 3oz sample with 2mL was what I was going for, so 2 / 0.0047=425, so I added 425mL per 5 gallon batch and hit exactly what I was looking for. The biggest advantage to cold brewing is that you don't get as much acid or tannin extraction as a heated method.

Hello said:

I can say definitely use a fine grind as you would for espresso. You may want to try and test out the taste. I was thinking of mixing 1/4 oz of coffee with 12 oz of a stout beer. If it was enough taste for me then I would assume I can brew the right amount of coffee and bottle with that. It may not make sense though but so far, it makes sense to me. Someone also suggested getting a commercial bottle of stout, cold brew a cup of coffee, get an eye dropper of sorts and just start with a couple of drops at a time until the coffee flavor is where I wanted it.

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This is the analytical side of me being a jerk, but if you keep adding coffee drops at a consistent volume per drop, while sampling the beer, you couldn't just say it took 12 drops for the coffee flavor to be perfect. Those 12 drops would have been added on a exponential scale vs the volume of the original beer. You'd have to add fractions of a drop proportional to the original vs current beer volume. You'd need 12 beers each with a different starting amount of coffee. Sounds like a great test!

If you look at pictures of beer blending at breweries, they always set up a matrix of cups with various blending proportions.

brent77 said:

You'd need 12 beers each with a different starting amount of coffee. Sounds like a great test!

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That is almost exactly what I did, although I didn't use 12 samples. I poured 4 x 3oz samples, and added 0.5mL, 1mL, 1.5mL, and 2mL. It only took one bottle to get the right amount. Admittedly, I had 4 bottles and was prepared to make the sacrifice if additional sampling was required.

Do not ever, ever, EVER cold press with espresso ground coffee. Fine grounds = varied and unpredictable extraction times. Use coarse grounds, in room temperature water, sitting at room temperature for 12-24 hours (depending on roast), and press/filter as soon as finished to separate coffee from grounds (grounds are bitter; **** that).

I haven't brewed yet (SOON), but I've worked with coffee for most of my "job life," and I can tell you--you want results, and you want a standard.

Also, have you considered using coffee that's NOT espresso roast? Espresso is a boring, half-assed roast, only made to seem less boring by horse **** roasts like French Roast. Maybe try and dark, dark Mexican Origin or Papua New Guinean Origin coffee--dark, strong roasts on those--spice and texture: not the bland, boring espresso taste that everyone fawns over (unnecessarily).

However, ******* coffee critiques aside, Cheers and good luck! Let us know how this turned out and how you racked. I may be trying something soon in the very near future

KeyWestBrewing said:

In the coffee isle at any grocery store.

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KeyWestBrewing, I do not see this at my local grocery store. Do you have another suggestion?

Do you have anywhere near you that sells Cuban food or coffee?

Bfranklin007 said:

KeyWestBrewing, I do not see this at my local grocery store. Do you have another suggestion?

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Yeah i find mine at Winco, a local employee owned store. but i also see walmart has it locally here.

I do a cold brew on it but just do it in a mason jar. At rack to secondary, i then filter it into the fermenter and then rack on top..
This is my process. YMMV

ctmcgaha said:

Do not ever, ever, EVER cold press with espresso ground coffee. Fine grounds = varied and unpredictable extraction times. Use coarse grounds, in room temperature water, sitting at room temperature for 12-24 hours (depending on roast), and press/filter as soon as finished to separate coffee from grounds (grounds are bitter; **** that).

I haven't brewed yet (SOON), but I've worked with coffee for most of my "job life," and I can tell you--you want results, and you want a standard.

Also, have you considered using coffee that's NOT espresso roast? Espresso is a boring, half-assed roast, only made to seem less boring by horse **** roasts like French Roast. Maybe try and dark, dark Mexican Origin or Papua New Guinean Origin coffee--dark, strong roasts on those--spice and texture: not the bland, boring espresso taste that everyone fawns over (unnecessarily).

However, ******* coffee critiques aside, Cheers and good luck! Let us know how this turned out and how you racked. I may be trying something soon in the very near future

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ctmcgaha, What would be your recommendation for a bold strong coffee flavor? This is a Pumpkin stout, so any kind of nut or spice flavor would probably work.

Again, Thanks to everyone who have responded to this thread. All the input has been extremely helpful. This brew is in process and I will let you know how it comes out. I am trying to plan my next brew. So if anyone has any input on a red ale that would be helpful. I would like to do it without a kit, so any recipes tips would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!!

Thanks again for all the information. As far as the coffee flavor goes, it could not have been better. The only down fall is that I tried to add some pumpkin and spices for that flavor, but you can not taste it. But as far as an Expresso Milk Stout, it is great!!! I added 16oz of Starbucks expresso coffee (french grind) and one bottle of coffee extract. I just wanted to let everyone who helped me in this process how it went. Thanks again.

Thanks again for all the input. The beer turned out OK. I missed the mark on the pumpkin spices. If I were only doing an expresso stout, it would have been dead on and great!!! I'm looking forward to starting the recipe over this week with a different recipe on the pumpkin and spices. Does anyone have any input on using coffee extract?

Bfranklin007 said:

Thanks again for all the input. The beer turned out OK. I missed the mark on the pumpkin spices. If I were only doing an expresso stout, it would have been dead on and great!!! I'm looking forward to starting the recipe over this week with a different recipe on the pumpkin and spices. Does anyone have any input on using coffee extract?

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Why use an extract when you can just cold brew a concentrate and use the real thing? You'd use it exactly the same way except it would be way fresher and you can use the coffee of your choice. Probably a whole lot cheaper too.

Did you check the recipe forum? There must be at least a dozen recipes... if not, go over to the porter forum and find one there (I know that there are several there, one of which is mine) and add a half pound of black patent to your grain bill.