One pump HERMS, Single Tier

Is it the consensus around here that this can't be done? I've seen all sorts of fancy ideas for it involving 3 way valves, and having multiple extra pots to store stuff etc but I just don't see why. If you're going to be putzing around with changing the 3-way valves for different flows, then why not just put some sort of camlock fittings on the pump and just switch around where you're pumping?

For example, during mash the pump is hooked from the ball valve on the mash tun, to the input part of the HERMS coil. When you're done there you simple move to "outflow" side of the pump to the boil kettle and pump your wort into there. Then batch sparge by pumping the sparge water into the mash-tun, then hook it up to the sparge arm and MLT ball valve for a quick vorlauf (or fly sparge if you want), and back into the boil kettle. Heck, you could even hook it up to your plate chiller if you want.

Seems to me that if you're willing to take 5 minutes to hook the pump up to different ports (which takes basically no effort with camlock fittings) then you could easily save $150 on a second pump.

Am I missing something here?

My HERMS is a single tier with only one pump. I also don't have any complicated plumbing, just a couple hoses and camlock fittings. It works great for batch sparging. If you want to fly sparge you'll need to put the BK or some other vessel on the ground to collect the runnings during the sparge, and then lift it up before starting the boil.

JuanMoore said:

If you want to fly sparge you'll need to put the BK or some other vessel on the ground to collect the runnings during the sparge, and then lift it up before starting the boil.

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That's pretty much the setup I have. BK goes on the ground during the sparge. Not a problem as long as you're planning on doing 5 gallon batches. My burner is elevated above the rest of the stand but just because I'm kind of tall so I wanted it to be close to the same height as my mash tun. BTW, I use a standalone heat exchanger (the blue cooler).

microbusbrewery said:

That's pretty much the setup I have. BK goes on the ground during the sparge. Not a problem as long as you're planning on doing 5 gallon batches. My burner is elevated above the rest of the stand but just because I'm kind of tall so I wanted it to be close to the same height as my mash tun. BTW, I use a standalone heat exchanger (the blue cooler).

Click to expand...

Care to share the details of your standalone heat exchanger? Looks nice and simple!!

Well I'm planning on doing 15 gallon batches but I still don't see why I would need two pumps. Why does the BK have to be on the ground when I have a pump.

I was thinking if you had some way to seal the lid on the cooler air tight and you had tubing from the hlt going into the lid to sparge, couldn't you just pump the wort out of the mash tun and the vacuum created would draw the same amount of water back in? That seems too easy and would only use one pump.

Yeah but why not just skip all that absurdity and pump your MLT dry, and then pump your sparge water in from the HLT for a batch sparge? What's the point in complicating things with a vacuum drawn HLT (which wouldn't work with a magnetic drive pump anyways, btw)?

BudzAndSudz said:

Well I'm planning on doing 15 gallon batches but I still don't see why I would need two pumps. Why does the BK have to be on the ground when I have a pump.

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Maybe I wasn't clear earlier. The BK wouldn't need to be moved if you batch sparge, only if you fly sparge. When fly sparging you need to simultaneously transfer water from the HLT into the MLT, and wort from the MLT to the BK. This requires either two pumps, or one pump and one of the vessels at a different height, or zero pumps and three different heights. I batch sparge, which is why I made my rig single tier.

Ok yeah. I've always batch sparged and from what I've read you can achieve the same efficiency with either method so I'm going to stick to that.

So the consensus is that a single pump will work as long as I don't mind disconnecting and reconnecting hoses on my system?

BudzAndSudz said:

So the consensus is that a single pump will work as long as I don't mind disconnecting and reconnecting hoses on my system?

Click to expand...

Yes.

kennett_brew said:

Care to share the details of your standalone heat exchanger? Looks nice and simple!!

Click to expand...

Yep it's pretty simple. It's a 2 gallon cooler with 10 feet of 1/2" copper coiled inside. It uses a 1500 watt water heater element for heat and the temp is controlled by a BCS-460. I recirc constantly during the mash so it flows from MT to pump to HEX and back to MT. I wanted to be able to control mash temps independent of the HLT temp, so that's why I went this route.

+1 on what juanmoore said, if you're batch sparging you only need one pump and wouldn't need to put it on the floor.

microbusbrewery said:

Yep it's pretty simple. It's a 2 gallon cooler with 10 feet of 1/2" copper coiled inside. It uses a 1500 watt water heater element for heat and the temp is controlled by a BCS-460. I recirc constantly during the mash so it flows from MT to pump to HEX and back to MT. I wanted to be able to control mash temps independent of the HLT temp, so that's why I went this route.

+1 on what juanmoore said, if you're batch sparging you only need one pump and wouldn't need to put it on the floor.

Click to expand...

Very cool... Do anything special to seal around the water heater element or just use silicone gaskets?

kennett_brew said:

Very cool... Do anything special to seal around the water heater element or just use silicone gaskets?

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It's got a half coupling on the inside that the water heater element is threaded into. There's a gasket on the element, but I did use a bit of silicone sealant on the inside to help seal things up. The HLT is set up the same way.

microbusbrewery said:

It's got a half coupling on the inside that the water heater element is threaded into. There's a gasket on the element, but I did use a bit of silicone sealant on the inside to help seal things up. The HLT is set up the same way.

Click to expand...

Perfect... Thanks for the info! Debating on how to do my setup... Hlt with the coils inside or separate heat exchanger....

I am a committed batch sparger, but I went with two pumps on my rig so that I could recirculate the water in the hlt to reduce stratification and give a uniform temperature around the coil. I can also pump sani through my chiller at the same time I am whirlpooling

kennett_brew said:

Perfect... Thanks for the info! Debating on how to do my setup... Hlt with the coils inside or separate heat exchanger....

Click to expand...

I've thought about this myself. I have a 3 vessel setup right now, and just got a 10G kettle to replace my Igloo MT. I have the burners to go direct fire on the MT, but I think heat exchange would be a safer way to do it (avoiding scorching).

The coil requires (correct me if this is wrong anyone!) that you always have the HLT full and water hot enough to do the job, but I batch sparge and frequently only have 4-5G of sparge water in my 8G HLT so half the coil wouldn't even be submerged.

Compacting my dilemma is the fact that I have buy filtered H20 from the dispenser at the supermarket and then I cut it with 20% tap water to retain some mineral content...so I'd have to buy/mix extra water just to have the coil submerged.

Any suggestions/corrections for my thinking?

wncbrewer said:

I am a committed batch sparger, but I went with two pumps on my rig so that I could recirculate the water in the hlt to reduce stratification and give a uniform temperature around the coil. I can also pump sani through my chiller at the same time I am whirlpooling

Click to expand...

Why not just recirc boiling wort through your chiller during the last 10-15 minutes of the boil? That's what I do with the pump to sanitize it before flameout/whirlpool anyway.

Above assumes you have a plate chiller. I use IC and just put the whole thing in the brewkettle.

jbaysurfer said:

The coil requires (correct me if this is wrong anyone!) that you always have the HLT full and water hot enough to do the job, but I batch sparge and frequently only have 4-5G of sparge water in my 8G HLT so half the coil wouldn't even be submerged.

Click to expand...

The coil doesn't need to be fully submerged to work, it just works most efficiently as a heat exchanger when fully submerged.

wncbrewer said:

I am a committed batch sparger, but I went with two pumps on my rig so that I could recirculate the water in the hlt to reduce stratification and give a uniform temperature around the coil. I can also pump sani through my chiller at the same time I am whirlpooling

Click to expand...

But if your temperature sensor is located at the end of your HERMS coil right before the wort is returned to the MLT, then it really doesn't matter if there's stratification in your HLT, because the only thing that really matters is the return temp of your wort.

jbaysurfer said:

Why not just recirc boiling wort through your chiller during the last 10-15 minutes of the boil? That's what I do with the pump to sanitize it before flameout/whirlpool anyway.

Above assumes you have a plate chiller. I use IC and just put the whole thing in the brewkettle.

Click to expand...

I could do it that way for sure, and there are a lot of folks that do, but in using the other pump to loop th sani, I minimize the amount of hops and break material going into the chiller

BudzAndSudz said:

But if your temperature sensor is located at the end of your HERMS coil right before the wort is returned to the MLT, then it really doesn't matter if there's stratification in your HLT, because the only thing that really matters is the return temp of your wort.

Click to expand...

True I suppose, but for me I would rather have my hlt water at uniform temp. I am by no means saying that it cannot be done with one pump, just that I chose to go with two for the reasons outlined above

wncbrewer said:

True I suppose, but for me I would rather have my hlt water at uniform temp. I am by no means saying that it cannot be done with one pump, just that I chose to go with two for the reasons outlined above

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A stir motor for the HLT seemed like a much cheaper and easier option for me. I'm sure I could find uses for even 3 pumps, but I built my HERMS on a very tight budget, and a second pump didn't seem like a great use of money for me.

JuanMoore said:

A stir motor for the HLT seemed like a much cheaper and easier option for me. I'm sure I could find uses for even 3 pumps, but I built my HERMS on a very tight budget, and a second pump didn't seem like a great use of money for me.

Click to expand...

God knows I understand about building a rig on a budget

jbaysurfer said:

I've thought about this myself. I have a 3 vessel setup right now, and just got a 10G kettle to replace my Igloo MT. I have the burners to go direct fire on the MT, but I think heat exchange would be a safer way to do it (avoiding scorching).

The coil requires (correct me if this is wrong anyone!) that you always have the HLT full and water hot enough to do the job, but I batch sparge and frequently only have 4-5G of sparge water in my 8G HLT so half the coil wouldn't even be submerged.

Compacting my dilemma is the fact that I have buy filtered H20 from the dispenser at the supermarket and then I cut it with 20% tap water to retain some mineral content...so I'd have to buy/mix extra water just to have the coil submerged.

Any suggestions/corrections for my thinking?

Click to expand...

As others said, the coils don't need to be completely submerged but why not add water to the hot while you mash out... You'd got the time then to reheat if you really want all the coils submerged.. And.. Add the benefit of the hot water to help with the cleaning after!!

kennett_brew said:

As others said, the coils don't need to be completely submerged but why not add water to the hot while you mash out... You'd got the time then to reheat if you really want all the coils submerged.. And.. Add the benefit of the hot water to help with the cleaning after!!

Click to expand...

That's not a bad idea, and thanks for the suggestion, but I think if i just vorlauf with my pump continously while direct firing with a false bottom I'll probably be ok. I'm going to try that route for now.