Steeping grains

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907_fellow

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So I just read threw some threads and think I might be on to something here. I am doing extract batches, full 6.5 gallon boils in a keggle. Normally, I fill the keggle up to 6.5 gallons, throw the specialty grains in, bring up to 155 degree F and steep for 30 min. After reading the information below, I think I could improve my beer by steeping in like 1 gallon, then adding the additional 5.5 gallons after steeping. Is this correct? -
In order to get the colors and flavors you want from your specialty grains, without extracting excess tannins, you need to do one of two things — either steep in a small amount of water or in weak wort. A small amount of water means 1–3 qts. of water per pound of grains (2.1–6.3 L/kg). If you steep in a larger volume than that, add malt extract until the specific gravity is over 1.010 before adding the grains. And finally, rinse with a very small amount of water — 0.5–1 qts. of water per pound of grain steeped (1–2 L/kg) works well (see “Steeping,” in the May–June 2005 issue of BYO for more on this topic).

In extract brewing, the extract manufacturer collects the wort and concentrates it. When the wort is concentrated into extract, some volatile compounds are lost. To brew the best extract beer possible, you need a way to replace at least a portion of them. The simplest way to do this is to make some wort yourself by doing a partial mash in your brewpot.

To do this, add some 2-row pale malt to your recipe. For every pound (0.45 kg) of pale malt, subtract 0.53 lbs. (0.24 kg) of dried malt extract or 0.73 lbs. (0.33 kg) liquid malt extract. When making a 5-gallon (19-L) extract beer, I usually shoot for “steeping” a total of around 2–2.5 lbs. (0.91–1.1 kg) of grains, including base malt and specialty grains. Steep this liquid in 1.5–
2 qts. of water per pound of grain (3.2–4.2 L/kg) at 148–158 °F (64–70 °C) for 45–60 minutes. After increasing your boil volume, I feel that doing small partial mashes — which are really just glorified grain steeps — is the technique that will help extract brewers brew better beer. Note that partial mash wort is also typically more fermentable than that of malt extract, which can help if your beers consistently finish at a high final gravity.
 
Also, would adding 5.5 gallons of room temp water to my 1 gallon of 155 degree steeped water mess anything up?
 
I don't think so,but you'd still have to bring it to a boil,get hot break,etc. 2qt of water per pound of grain might raise the PH too much. 1qt-1.25qt per pound is the norm. I steep in maybe 2 gallons of water & it turned out fine. Sparge with 1 gallon to get 3 gallon partial boil. Steeping grains are intended to add some freshness,color & flavor. I think freshness is the big one,puting back what's lacking in extract. Partial mash is another process altogether.
 
By sparging, what do you mean? I kno that's a dumb question, just trying to wrap my mind around the next steps in advancing my brewing operation. Right now I'm doing 5 gallon extract batches in a full boil with specialty grains. I think adding the 2 row in with my specialty grains, and steeping in less water may help quite a bit.

As far as equipment, I'm running a 15 gallon keggle on top of a propane turkey burner.
 
Sparging is simply rinsing the grains with water a bit hotter than the steeping/mashing temp,say 165F. I sparge steeping grains as well. More important with mashing to get as much fermentable sugars as possible out of the grains. This raises efficiency percentage.
 
Ok so I should steep my grains in about 1qt per pound of grain at about 155 degree F for 60 minutes. Then rinse the grains with 1 gallon of 165 degree water. After sparging, I would then top off my keggle to the 6.5 gallon mark and proceed with the boil as normal. Sound about right?
 
All except for the steeping time. Steeping is commonly for 30 minutes. Mashing whether AG or PM is for 60 minutes.
 
If I am adding a pound of 2 row to my specialty grains, would I still want to go for 30 minutes, or 60 minutes?
 
2 row is a base grain that needs to be mashed,so 60 minutes. And temp control is more important. Higher mash temp gives less fermentables & lower temp gives more. In other words,higher temp gives more flavor & color. One pound of base grain with the specialty grains won't add much to the fermentables.
 
Might check "Brew Better Beer" by Gordon Strong (I think). He suggests 1 quart per lb steeped for 5 minutes in 160 deg water. He also mentions a cold water (overnight) method. In context, he is referring to all-grain brewers trying this rather than mashing with the specialty malts, but I don't see why it wouldn't apply to extract. Anyways, tried in on the amber I have in my fermenter now. Jury is still out!
 
5 minutes or 50 minutes of steeping?


I'm just toying with this idea of adding some 2 row to my specialty malts. I read about it and it makes me think I might be able to slightly improve my extract batches by employing this technique without much additional effort. Kind of trying to get an idea on whether it will be effective... Not sure what impact the 60 minute steeping time will have on the specialty grains.
 
Steeping crystal grains is 30 minutes. If you use any base malts,then they must be mashed for 60 minutes. Mashing isn't steeping.
 
I wonder if it would be wise to start the mash with my 1 lb of 2 row for 3 minutes, then add in the specialty grains after 30 minutes has passed. That way the 2 row gets its required 60 minutes, and the specialty grains gets its 30 minutes.

I suppose starting with all of the grains in at the beginning, then removing the specialty grains after 30 minutes and allowing the 2 row to continue mashing for an additional 30 would be a better approach.
 
Not necessary to separate them. When mashing,they all get in there together for the full 60 minutes. It's only when steeping that you do it for only30 minutes. The sugars in crystal/caramel malts have already been produced. You're just soaking them out.
In mashing,you're doing the starch to sugar conversion yourself. That's why 60 minutes is required. But don't worry,it's not that hard. Looking back to my first PM last month,the hardest part is maintaining mash temp for the hour.
 
Ok cool. Ya I can see the temp thing being an issue. When steeping, my 6.5 gallons of water has held from 158 degrees at the start, to around 150 degree after 30 minutes. With the longer 60 min mash, and the reduced volume of water I'm going to be using now, it will cool down much faster.

I'm rocking the keggle with a turkey propane burner. Should I just monitor the temp and periodically burp a lil flame under there to try to keep it right at 155? Any other easier ways? Probably not...
 
Some heat it to a pre-determined temp,knowing how much it'll cool down to from experience. Gotta learn that one myself. But I use an electric stove so I keep it on about 2.3 on the knob to khold it about 156F. Gotta work on it with these new heating elements. Others wrap towels,blankets,etc around it after getting it to temp. Seems to work well for them.
 
That's a good idea. Since volume will be so low, I can mash on my stove top and maintain the temp much easier with the natural gas burner set real low. At the same time, I could heat the other 5 gallons of water in my keggle to 155degree f. Don't know why I didn't think of that!
 
Try 165F on the kettle of sparge water,it'll likely give a little more sugars from the grains. But yeah,I have a set of 4 SS kettles,so that's what I did.
 
Mashing around 155, and sparging around 165 correct?

How does the sparging work? Are you just removing the grains from the liquid mash, holding them above the mash, and rinsing with the sparge water? Or is the sparge water in a separate vessel, and you submerge the grains in it briefly...
 
Yes,155F mash/steep & 165F sparge. You can do it either way. I did biab,so I pulled the grain bag & set it in a SS collander above the BK & used a sanitized pyrex measuring cup to pour the sparge water slowly over the grain bag. Others dunk it in the sparge water like a tea bag. But 5lbs of wet grain is heavy in a muslin sack. So I did it my way. My OG range was 1.042-1.046,I got 1.044. So it def works well. I think the OG could've been higher had I used 165F sparge water rather than 155F. Oh well,next time...
 
907_fellow said:
5 minutes or 50 minutes of steeping?

Five minutes! I thought the same thing. Tested it last weekend: heated 3 qts of water on camp stove in small pot to 160. Added 3 lbs steeping grains in mesh bag. Gently agitated the grain bag every 1 minute. Sampled the water at 5, 10, and 15 minutes. I couldn't tell much difference between any of the samples. It was clear that most of the work had been done very quickly in the steep. Haven't tasted the beer yet, though...
 
unionrdr said:
Not necessary to separate them.

+1. That's what I have always done - tossed 'em all in with the base malt for the whole mash.
 
907_fellow said:
1 quart per pound of grains for mashing...

1 gallon of 165' F to sparge?

I use a no-sparge method with a cooler (direct fire someday!) but I understand that there isn't a set amount of water for fly sparging: you sparge until you hit a certain gravity and pH. I want to say that you don't let the gravity thin below 1.010 and pH shouldn't go over 6.0? That may not be right...
 
907_Fellow -

How did this turn out for you? I'm doing the exact same thing and am glad I found your post. My first full boil was an IPA. I'm using a 7.5 gallon kettle and a propane burner (standard Turkey Fryer). I figured out that I need to start with 6.25 gallons and after a 60 minute boil I'm left with 5 gallons. I steeped my specialty grains at 160 for 30 minutes in the full 6.25 gallons of water. I noticed when I went to bottle it, that it had an oily appearance.

After reading your post from BYO magazine I'm guessing that these were tannins, and that I should have steeped them in 3 quarts per pound of grain, THEN added that to my brew kettle, and then added water to top it off to 6.25 gallons before starting the full boil. I had never read or heard about this before. I also bounced the grain bag up and down constantly for 30 minutes while steeping at 160, so maybe I shouldn't do that either. Maybe that also extracts too many tannins and I should just leave it alone?

If you see this, let me know how it went for you if you don't mind! After 5 batches I'm getting frustrated with extract and am considering going All Grain on my next batch. But I'd really like to make a few good extract batches and know how to do it before making the move. I just haven't been happy with any of them so far.

Thanks!
 
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